Suspicious truck draws Maine homeowner's gunfire, police probe (gun vigilante fail)

[jpak]

http://www.pressherald.com/news/suspicious-truck-draws-homeowner-gunfire-police-probe_2011-07-19.html

Cumberland police are investigating a predawn incident in which a homeowner fired a handgun several times at a pickup truck carrying two men who may have been stealing items from cars in the neighborhood.

<snip>

According to the homeowner's report, he was awakened by the sound of someone opening and closing doors in his driveway. Looking out a window, he saw someone standing near one of his vehicles. He also saw a pickup truck parked at the side of the road with either brake lights or parking lights, but no headlights on.

"He alerted his wife, told her what was going on and told her to call 911," Charron said. "However, she never did call 911."

<snip>

The homeowner reported firing at the pickup, hitting it a couple of times in the grille or windshield area, Charron said, before the driver swerved to avoid the homeowner and left the neighborhood.

<more>

[Drale]

1. Wow, stealing is wrong but does it really warrant trying to killing them

especially since they didn't seem to be threating this guy with harm.

[jpak]

2. Castle Doctrine - steal a CD player, get the death penalty

yup

[Drale]

3. Well I guess

"He pulls a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue! That's the Chicago way, and that's how you get ......."

[tortoise1956]

29. One of Sean's best roles...

"Bringing a knife to a gunfight!"

[HereSince1628]

5. In Maine where does the moat end and the castle begin?

Every state can be different. I have no idea about Maine.

[jpak]

15. We don't have a Castle Law or Death Penalty

and this guy will rightly face charges

[ileus]

18. No DP is good, no castle law not so good.

[jpak]

20. We're a civil society and this guy is not

and he will face a judge

yup

[ileus]

24. Time will tell...at the worst he's close to being on their level.

[gejohnston]

33. but you do have juries and jury nullification

There have been cases in Canada that were clear cases of jury nullification in self defense situations, because their SD laws are complex and have no castle doctrine. There was a case in Quebec a few months ago where the cops went to the wrong house, cop got shot, and was ruled justifiable homicide.

Sorry, duty to retreat is neither civil nor is it civilized. It is state sanctioned barbarism.

[eqfan592]

6. *cough* bullshit *cough*

More like commit a crime, get confronted by victim, do anything that can be in anyway perceived as a threat, possibly end up being shot. Sorry, jpak, but that is the sort of thing that goes with the territory of being a criminal. Want to put a stop to it? Try targeting the root causes of crime. Otherwise you are just a part of the problem.

[TheMadMonk]

16. And there's nothing wrong with shooting 12 year olds in the back. /nt

[eqfan592]

22. Mmmm, that's some tasty hyperbole.... nt

[jpak]

23. No - that's Castle Law reality

and it depends entirely on the Grand Jury

If the kid was black....

[eqfan592]

26. I tell you what, jpak.

You go into a dark room, then place a person that doesn't belong there in that dark room, then you tell me if you can ID the persons age and disposition. Add in the adrenalin rush that goes along with having a potentially homicidal criminal in your home, and I think you'll find it is a much tougher thing to accomplish than you seem to think.

You're little more than a Monday morning quarterback.

Also, way to through some racism into the mix just for the hell of it. Always keeping it classy I see, jpak.

[SteveM]

35. Ahh, there's J6pak pulling the race card. Some "reality."

[jpak]

37. Here's some reality, you can kill Latinos in Texas in yer neighbor's yard and get away with it

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/11/27/shooting_of_burglars_in_texas_draws_debate/

[gejohnston]

38. If they were Anglo, the outcome would be the same. The Southwest is not

is not and has never been Jim Crow south. Especially west Texas and New Mexico. Arizona, not so much because of the influx of people from Ohio that hate snow more than they love their grand kids.

[SteveM]

42. Ah, pulling the race card again; this time brown folks...

"Police Capt. A.H. Corbett stated the two men ignored Mr. Horn's order to freeze and one of the suspects ran towards Joe Horn before he angled away from him toward the street when he was shot in the back. Note: The medical examiner's report did not specify they were shot in the back.<7> Pasadena police confirmed that the two men were shot after they ventured into his front yard."

Try Wikipedia Joe Horn, 6pak.

The "reality" is you can't hack it, 6pak. Try this analysis instead: you have a seething animosity against defenders of the Second Amendment, and you use the same ol' hack tactics to accomplish something (self-gratification? honing troll skills? self-abuse?): race cards and "vigilante justice."

PUy

[We_Have_A_Problem]

43. They werent latinos

and Horn was no-billed.

Hate to tell you - it isn't a crime in TX to defend property with deadly force.

[aikoaiko]

44. RIF

[Hoopla Phil]

45. Real reality. Another jpak thread has gone down in flames. Again.

yup

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[X_Digger]

21. He conveniently left that out.. (the trying to run him down part). n/t

[ileus]

4. Hope they learned their lesson...get a job scumbags.

[gejohnston]

7. something you left out between the snips

This is actually an interesting one worthy of discussion. Where does citizens arrest end and vigilantism begin? Since he caught them in the act, I vote that it is a case of the former instead of the latter. Batman would be a vigilante.

The driver disregarded the warning, put the truck in gear and, "according to the homeowner, drove at a high rate of speed toward him," Charron said.

The homeowner reported firing at the pickup, hitting it a couple of times in the grille or windshield area, Charron said, before the driver swerved to avoid the homeowner and left the neighborhood.

"We are looking for anybody with information on anyone involved in this type of activity," Charron said, "operating a white- or silver-colored pickup, which now may have several holes in it."

Is the detail in bold justifiable? Search me. Not a lawyer and have no idea how that would work in Maine. Being a .25, I doubt the truck has several bullet holes in it.

[jpak]

8. So - you believe this criminal suburban thug?

I don't

:D

[ileus]

10. He knows better than believe thieves.

[eqfan592]

11. Lol, I'm more likely to take his word over yours at this point in time.

Especially when you drag out hyperbole like "criminal suburban thug" to describe somebody that, as far as we know, committed no crime.

[gejohnston]

12. Did he commit a crime? The article said the DA is looking at it

and I'm not a lawyer, nor am I investigation the case. There are a lot of details left out. Details that matter. Why don't you believe him? Something tells me that you would call him a criminal vigilante even if he fired after getting stabbed.

[jpak]

19. He'll be in court on multiple charges

sic semper viglinate

yup

[eqfan592]

25. sic semper bullshit artist.

Cuz last time I checked, you were no better at predicting the future than anybody else around here.

[Union Scribe]

31. So what's your problem? You can't have it both ways.

You can't complain that the law allows people to wantonly shoot others for any reason, then also revel in someone doing so being brought up on charges. I don't suppose you'd figure this out on your own, but the latter would totally contradict your former argument. The police ARE involved here, and it's not to slap the guy on the back. So I guess your brilliantly crafted sophomoric rants are pretty much empty inside, yup.

[pipoman]

39. You really are unbelievable

to believe the story of a person caught in the act of burglary over the story of the person being burgled is really a quite fascinating position. I am beginning to wonder if you are a criminal who advocates gun control to make your job easier..

[ileus]

9. If it was a 25auto more like several dents at worst.

[gejohnston]

13. unless it was a 1970s Fiat at close range. nt

[ileus]

14. We used to shoot coffee cans with a 25...sometimes it would shoot thru both sides.

Most of the time not...

[S_B_Jackson]

28. Perhaps one or more of the shots hit the radiator...

they are fairly delicate, and can be damaged fairly easily. Maybe the police will get lucky and they'll find it at a garage being repaired. Sounds like the alleged thieves weren't the brightest bulbs in the package.

[S_B_Jackson]

27. From that excerpt that you

extracted from jpak's linked article, it sounds very similar to the situation with Joe Horn. The burglars broke toward him from between his and his neighbor's homes thus his defensible perception of imminent physical harm.

I don't know exactly how Maine statutes on such a situation, which of course, puts both myself and jpak on an equal footing. Unlike our OP, though, most persons are willing to allow for the police investigation to bring the facts to light without leaping to a conclusion.

[gravity556]

40. "according to the homeowner, drove at a high rate of speed toward him,"

That bit is the reason he opened fire. The cops can and will shoot you if you point a car at them and stomp on the gas. A car is a seriously dangerous item when used as a weapon (hell, 50k+ deaths due to people just trying to drive them a year), and if someone's aiming it at you, a weapon it surely is.

Here's a handy bit of advice-don't take shit that isn't yours, don't try and run down someone who's trying to stop you from taking shit that isn't yours. Both of those are illegal, and both of those things can get you shot. One of them is justifiable (shooting someone who is trying to run you over) and one of them isn't (YMMV in Texas at night), but the legality is going to be of little comfort when you're nursing a sucking chest wound.

Again, ask a cop if they consider someone standing on the gas while accelerating toward them to be deadly force.

[tortoise1956]

30. Wow, nice job of editing!

I see you left out the part about them trying to run the guy over BEFORE he started shooting. In other words, he shot at them because they were trying to hurt or kill him.

How about telling the WHOLE story next time?

[Common Sense Party]

32. Tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but? Why would jpak ever do THAT?

That's not part of his slick schtick.

[SteveM]

36. Lying some of the time is sport; lying all the time is dreary.

[aikoaiko]

41. Could be a good case of self-defense based on the report.

We'll just have to see.

If the homeowner was acting lawfully (and I believe confronting an ostensible criminal would be) and the alleged criminal's actions threatened the life of the homeowner, then using lethal force would be justified.