Ellettsville Indiana Gun Shop Shut Down

[mikeb302000]

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110719/NEWS02/110719020/Ellettsville-gun-shop-shut-down-weapon-sales-case?odyssey=nav">indystar.com reports on this exceedingly rare situation.

An Ellettsville gun shop has been shut down after an investigation revealed the owner wasn’t doing the necessary background checks on his customers or making them fill out paperwork before they purchased guns.

Everyone should realize I was being facetious when I said "exceedingly rare," or was that irony? The point is, unscrupulous FFL guys are no rarer than unscrupulous anything else, car mechanics who cheat the customers or candy-store owners who short-change people.

The oft-repeated claim that gun owners are more responsible because they own a deadly weapon or that gun shop owners are more careful because they could lose their license if they're not, is all hogwash. You've got crooks and incompetents everywhere.

And let's not forget the other type of gun dealer. Get a load of what this nut had to say for himself.

“I destroyed all my paper and I just don’t care,” Mullendore said, according to the press release. “I’m going to give people the guns they need. This is God’s shop and what (God) wants to do with it is going to happen.”

http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/">(cross posted at Mikeb302000)

What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.

[rpannier]

1. Every organization, group, etc has their share of crooks

This guy sounds like a nut and it's probably better he is out of business.
But, there are lots of good people who own gun stores and good people who buy weapons.
Unfortunately, it's the stupid that ruin it for the rest of society.

K&R
Someone didn't like your post. So it sits at zero

[mikeb302000]

25. I agree completely

The bad apples ruin it for the good guys who are the vast majority.

What I object to is the downplaying of how many bad apples there are and the resistance to the very measures that could weed them out.

What does "sits at zero mean?" Sorry I still don't know how it works around here.

[gejohnston]

28. In this case you are assuming only by your own prejudices

how many bad apples there are or any "resistance to the very measures that would weed them out." What evidence do you have what this resistance is? What measures do you suggest? Do you have the slightest idea what US federal gun laws are? What do you know about Italian gun laws for that matter?

[pipoman]

2. Blogspam unrec...eom

[bluerum]

3. Based on the 'gods shop' statement alone, I'd say that the guy has lost it.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gravity556]

5. More blog-spam?

Wow. Also, an FFL selling without doing the 4473 and NICS check IS a rare occurence. Gun shops are expensive to run (favorite joke of my FFL friends-"How do you make a little money running a gun shop? Start with a BUNCH of money!") and the regulations tend to make it a pain in the ass.

This guy SHOULD be arrested-the law applies to everyone, without regard to what they're employed doing. The BATFEces agents who told the shop owner to let several individuals straw purchase guns for Project Gunrunner and knowingly allowed those individuals and those firearms go to Mexico are conspirators, supplying firearms to the cartels, resulting in a BP agent's death (in addition to whoever else the drug thugs have murdered with them).

You've hinted that this (FFLs selling out of their stores without 4473s and NICS checks) is a common occurence, so how about some links. Not to your blog, but actual news sources that have fact checkers and researchers and maintain at least a hint of objectivity. Come on, it should be easy. And don't bother wailing about gun shows-I want stories about actual licensees selling without paperwork.

A gun show is full of FFL holders who (contrary to what the idiots at VPC and Brady gnash their teeth about) still require a buyer to fill out the form and have a NICS check run. At a gun show, the only people who don't require (and are NOT REQUIRED TO, BY LAW) a 4473 and NICS are private sellers. Say I have a gun I never shoot and could use the cash for a new gun/xbox/crate of puppies. I can take that gun to a gun show and sell it to another individual. Personally, I fill out a bill of sale for my records and check IDs, just to make sure they're an AZ resident (because it's illegal to cross state lines to purchase a firearm from an individual, and I wouldn't want to end up in one of Bloomberg's "Trolling for Felonies" videos), and ask them if they're a prohibited posessor. Sure, they might be lying, but I have done my due dilligence, so if they're lying, the shitstorm is heaped on THEIR head.

So come on, let's see some objective evidence that this is a common occurence, Mr. "Everyone should realize I was being facetious when I said "exceedingly rare," or was that irony? The point is, unscrupulous FFL guys are no rarer than unscrupulous anything else, car mechanics who cheat the customers or candy-store owners who short-change people.", let's see some links!

[RSillsbee]

6. Dupe thread

Maybe you could actually see what's already been posted before you spam the forum?

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MineralMan]

9. I don't think you can do that.

Truly.

[RSillsbee]

13. Did I miss something good? NT

[Euromutt]

7. I don't know about "exceedingly," but it's rare nonetheless

Crooked FFLs exist, and nobody could honestly deny that. I'd say this guy is rare not in failing to comply with the law, but in doing so out of some misguided principle (as an atheist, I have little sympathy for people who invoke a deity to justify questionable actions) rather than simple greed.

But, once again, "the plural of anecdote is not data." I have no clue how many car mechanics cheat their customers or candy store owners short-change people, but I do know that making an assertion that crooked FFLs are no more rare than that on the basis of a single example is rubbish. Bear in mind, moreover, that FFLs differ from car mechanics and candy store owners in a couple of crucial ways: first, there exists a federal agency--the ATF--whose primary purpose is to monitor FFLs specifically; second, the sanctions of running afoul of the regulations governing the trade in firearms are a damn sight more severe than being reported to the Better Business Bureau and getting a bad rating. An FFL who is found to be deliberately and egregiously violating the law (I'm not talking about failing to check whether the customer has filled out his county of residence on the ATF form 4473) doesn't merely risk losing his license, but could also find himself spending a decade or more in a federal penitentiary. That's never going to happen to an unscrupulous car mechanic.

[Hoyt]

10. It's rare only because the penalties and enforcement are severe. If not, folks would be lined up to

purchase guns.

[lawodevolution]

14. They are lined up to buy guns, June continued the same trend this year

about 200,000 more NICS checks per month this year than last year.

[Hoyt]

15. Pretty much the same guys buying, one for each hip, one for each lower leg, one to tuck . . . . . .

One to shoot scores of folks, one to pierce almost anything, . . . . . . .a really big one to impress gunners' buddies . . . . . .

[ileus]

16. 6.8SPC or 30AR? I can't decide on my next AR.

the 6.8SPS cartridge is pretty easy to find now, but the 30AR may be the next big thing.

[Glassunion]

19. Personally I would just get a 6.8 upper for my existing AR...

I'll save a few bucks.

[ileus]

29. That's my plan just to buy the upper....

If I like it I'd but a "multi" cal lower to mate to it.

[Hoopla Phil]

24. 300 AAC Blackout beats them both.

[ileus]

30. no one really ever knows how these funky cals are going to take off or die.

6.5
6.8
30 AR
30 Whisper

ect.....the thing I'm looking at is the ammo and brass for the 6.8 is pretty easy to find and it has a somewhat good following. the Whisper and 30AR both sound like good platforms and if one of them takes off I'd rather have a 30 for deer hunting.

[Hoopla Phil]

32. The 300 BLK has commercial ammo out now with more in development.

Brass will be available in Sept. or you can role your own by chopping down .223 brass. The ballistics of the supersonic put it in line just above the 6.8.

[lawodevolution]

21. New, first time gun owners. Yup.

[Euromutt]

18. Do you have any evidence to support those assertions?

You might well be right for all I know, but I'm curious whether you base your claims on actual evidence or merely on your own prejudices.

[mikeb302000]

27. not my own prejudices

I base my opinions on a lot of reading, many many examples in the news, even statistics, believe it or not. But, above all I try to use common sense and my own best judgment of what's right and what's wrong.

How do you do it?

[Euromutt]

31. The question was directed at Hoyt, actually

But since you asked, I try to avoid "common sense and my own best judgment of what's right and what's wrong" and rely primarily on empirical evidence and reasoned argument, and above all, not assuming as fact things for which I have no evidence. That's not to say I don't make assumptions, surmises and inferences from time to time, especially when the evidence is incomplete, but I try to remember to make it clear when I'm doing so and point out that any such surmises are provisional, contingent on better evidence being presented.

[oneshooter]

23. How do you know that they are not? n/t

[mikeb302000]

26. thanks for those points

I'd like to point out however that I don't make presumptions "on the basis of a single example." I base my ideas on many examples and my own judgment of what seems right and wrong. Your defending the other presumption that FFL guys are somehow superior based on the ATF oversight, well I can't really agree with that. Even before the gun-smuggling scandal that has the ATF practically imploding these days, there were numerous reports about how understaffed they are and how infrequently they can inspect gun dealers' records.

So, what that brings us back to is the "presumption" that FFL guys and gun owners in general are as badly afflicted as anybody else with such problems as dishonesty, drug and alcohol addiction, mental illness, and general stupidity. This leaves us with a problem that should be addressed with stricter regulations and controls. Don't you think?

[Euromutt]

33. Why do I have a hard time believing you?

I'd like to point out however that I don't make presumptions "on the basis of a single example." I base my ideas on many examples and my own judgment of what seems right and wrong.

You presented one example, not "many," and I have absolutely no reason to trust your judgement. Neither do you, for that matter: the easiest person to fool is yourself.

Your defending the other presumption that FFL guys are somehow superior based on the ATF oversight, well I can't really agree with that.

I don't agree with it either, because it's a straw man. I never claimed FFLs were somehow "superior"; I pointed out they operate under much more stringent regulations and the threat of far more severe sanctions than say, a crooked auto mechanic. Yes, the ATF is understaffed, but this story does illustrate that you can't count on not getting caught, and if you are, you're pretty much fucked.

This leaves us with a problem that should be addressed with stricter regulations and controls. Don't you think?

Yes. That's why FFLs are already subject to stricter regulations and controls than auto mechanics and candy store owners. Look up the Gun Control Act of 1968 sometime, since you appear to not have heard of it.

[ileus]

11. Duplicate topic...even if jp is the op

[X_Digger]

12. unrec -- dupe blogspam. n/t

[Hangingon]

17. unrec - we have dealt with this

[east texas lib]

20. Bloggy McPimpington...

At your service.

[aikoaiko]

22. I refuse to increase your blog traffic.

[oneshooter]

34. Un Rec Don't care what a Italian says about American laws. n/t