U.S. anti-gunrunning effort turns fatally wrong

[alp227]

PHOENIX — They came from all over the country, agents with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, brought here in a bold new effort to shut down the flow of U.S. guns to Mexican drug cartels. It was called Operation Fast and Furious, after a popular movie about street car racing.

But from the beginning, much of the fury was inside the agency itself.

On his first day undercover, John Dodson, who had been an ATF agent for seven years in Virginia, sat in a Chevy Impala with Olindo Casa, an 18-year veteran from Chicago. They watched a suspected gun trafficker buy 10 semi-automatic rifles from a Phoenix gun store and followed him to the house of another suspected trafficker. All of their training told them to seize the guns.

The agents called their superior and asked for the order to “take him.” The answer came back swiftly, instructing them to stay in the car. The message was clear: Let the guns go.

This was all part of an ambitious new strategy allowing Fast and Furious agents to follow the paths of guns from illegal buyers known as “straw purchasers” through middlemen and into the hierarchy of the powerful Sinaloa drug cartel.

But Dodson and Casa were confused and upset. ATF agents hate to let the guns “walk.” Yet it happened again, day after day, month after month, for more than a year.

full: http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-anti-gunrunning-effort-turns-fatally-wrong/2011/07/14/gIQAH5d6YI_singlePage.html

[RSillsbee]

1. Why are we posting this thread again and again and again? NT

[spin]

13. Because both those who favor draconian gun control and those who do not ...

should be outraged when it is possible that multiple agencies of our government have allowed thousand of weapons to be sold to straw purchasers who will smuggle these weapons into Mexico and possibly sell some on American streets.

These weapons will leave a long trail of blood.

We pass gun laws and expect our government to enforce them. If it is true that agencies of our government decided to allow the laws to be bypassed in order to trace where the weapons go AND HAD NO WAY TO TRACK THESE WEAPONS then we should support an fair investigation to find our who allowed this to happen! Let's support finding the truth.

People have been killed because of these weapons and many more will die. There is even a POSSIBILITY that tax dollars paid for these weapons.

Strangely enough, in this forum only those people who are pro-gun pay much attention to this story. Perhaps some here feel that it is perfectly OK for our government to allow firearms to "walk" from mom and pop gun stores as long as it enhances the chances of passing another assault weapons ban.

I don't know the truth of this story but I do know that there appears to be the smell of a cover up here. It would be best for the administration to support the investigation and not allow this story to grow day by day and eventually become a major factor in the 2012 election.

Justice Department trying to shield officials in guns scandal, ATF chief says
Kenneth Melson, the ATF's acting director, claims Justice Department officials refuse to release a telling internal report on the Fast and Furious operation.
By Richard A. Serrano, Washington Bureau
July 19, 2011


Reporting from Washington—
The Justice Department is trying to protect its political appointees from the Fast and Furious scandal by concealing an internal "smoking gun" report and other documents that acknowledge the role top officials played in the program that allowed firearms to flow illegally into Mexico, according to the head of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Kenneth E. Melson, the ATF's acting director, also told congressional investigators this month that the affidavits prepared to obtain wiretaps used in the ill-fated operation were inconsistent with Justice Department officials' public statements about the program. Justice Department officials advised him not to raise his concerns with Congress about "institutional problems" with the Fast and Furious operation, Melson said.

"It was very frustrating to all of us," Melson told congressional investigators in a private meeting over the Fourth of July holiday, "and it appears thoroughly to us that the department is really trying to figure out a way to push the information away from their political appointees at the department."

Not only was the department slow to react, Melson said, but Justice Department officials indicated they did not want him to cooperate with Congress.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-na-guns-scandal-20110719,0,2052417.story

Let me ask you where do you stand?

Would you like to see a fair and unbiased investigation into this "scandal" that would reveal the truth? If the result revealed that the Justice Department was deeply involved in allowing the illegal sale of weapons to straw purchasers knowing that they would find their way into Mexico and into the hands of criminals in our country, would you support changes in the management of the departments that authorized this program?

Of course, a fair investigation might find that the problem is false or limited to the ATF.

[RSillsbee]

19. Let me ask you where do you stand?

I would like to see a fair and unbiased investigation into this scandal that would reveal the truth but you aren't going to get it.

What I'd really like to see is the ATF disbanded and give the "A" & the "T" back to the Treasury Dept. and the "F" to the states unless it crosses state lines then we give it to the FBI

[spin]

21. To me to most important part is the fair and unbiased investigation ...

I want to know the facts and not have them tainted by politics.

The idea of disbanding the ATF and giving its responsibilities to other agencies has surprising advocates but does make sense. Much depends on the results of an investigation. Some rumors tie other federal agencies to the scandal.

Could controversy kill the ATF?
By JOSH GERSTEIN | 7/8/11 4:42 AM EDT

The unfolding scandal over a gunrunning investigation allegedly botched by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives could do what years of criticism of the long-beleaguered agency never quite accomplished — result in its demise.

***snip***

Now, with ATF Acting Director Kenneth Melson hobbled by the scandal over Operation Fast and Furious and by indications he’s at odds with senior Justice Department officials, many are saying a breakup of the storied agency could just be a matter of time.

“I think something like that is likely to happen,” said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. “Unless they take some action to give it a director, it’s inevitable it’s going to have to get to that stage. It cannot continue the way it’s going now. … Right now, ATF is so weak it’s amazing.”

Christopher Cox, legislative director for the NRA, the agency’s longtime nemesis, also said arguments for shuttering or breaking up ATF are building.
emphasis added
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/58532.html

Possible FBI tie to 6 alleged cartel figures probed
Probe reveals that the U.S. agency running the 'Fast and Furious' anti-gun-trafficking operation didn't know about the alleged FBI informants. Congressional investigators are looking into the matter.
July 17, 2011|Richard A. Serrano

Congressional investigators probing the controversial Fast and Furious anti-gun-trafficking operation on the border with Mexico believe at least six Mexican drug cartel figures involved in gun smuggling also were paid FBI informants, officials said Saturday.

The investigators have asked the FBI and the Drug Enforcement Administration for details about the alleged informants, as well as why agents at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which ran the Fast and Furious operation, were not told about them.

***snip***

In a letter to FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III, the investigators asked why U.S. taxpayers' money apparently was paid to Mexican cartel members who have terrorized the border region for years in their efforts to smuggle drugs into this country, and to ship U.S. firearms into Mexico.

***snip***

The FBI and DEA did not tell the ATF about the alleged informants. The ATF and congressional investigators learned later that those agencies apparently were paying cartel members whom the ATF wanted to arrest.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/17/nation/la-na-cartel-guns-20110717

[AzWorker]

2. And now there is speculation that the FBI may have tweaked NICS...

....to allow a couple of these 'straw buyers' to make purchases.

The tweaking was evidently required due to some of the 'straw buyers' having disabiling convictions.

We may find out more tomorrow...

[MyrnaLoy]

3. not really all that wrong

Since it began in 2006, Gunrunner has seized more than 10,000 firearms and led to the arrests of more than 800 suspects. New York Times, 6/16/2011

[virginia mountainman]

4. Over 150 Mexicans have been killed with guns suspected of being tied to gunwalker...

Convictions, simply are not worth lives lost...to most of us anyway...

http://tucsoncitizen.com/view-from-baja-arizona/2011/03/13/mexican-officials-claim-atf-walked-guns-suspected-in-the-death-of-150-mexicans/

But we have covered this ground before....

[Katya Mullethov]

6. Fast and Furious

Is not Gunwalker® .

[MyrnaLoy]

9. LOL

nice try. It is a continuation of the same program. My guess is the arrest rate and confiscation of firearms is much higher now. Well unless the NRA bullshit stops a successful program.

[east texas lib]

15. A successful program?

So deaths that result from the abuse of a Constitutional right (I.E., RKBA) in this country are abhorrent to you, but deaths that result from our own government aiding and abetting the breaking of federal law by agents of the federal government itself are to be ignored as part of a "successful program"? Well. How very "progressive" of you.

[Tejas]

16. "unless the NRA bullshit stops a successful program"

What success, the BS stats from the NY Times article?

[Katya Mullethov]

18. Well then..

Let's dance .

You dont get to guess , so find the answers to these questions and prove yourself worth scalping .

After two years and chingos of cash . How many F&F convictions or defendants are there ? How many were ALREADY felons ?

Carters Country was fingered via press release by the feds as a pivotal part of the conspiracy the moment someone that counted got killed . So what ever happened to their FFL ?

Till then , I have yeast to pitch , and Vedalias and pork on the fire .

[Tuesday Afternoon]

22. *crickets*

[Katya Mullethov]

24. IS THERE NO ONE ELSE ?

To paraphrase .

[SteveM]

25. Sure if by "success" you mean more guns in Mexico.

Goodness, Myrna. Quit guessing.

[AzWorker]

5. How many convictions?

Whats the conviction to death ratio?

[petronius]

7. The column you are apparently quoting points out that Fast and Furious,

the specific operation that is in question here, is only a part of Gunrunner. So it's disingenuous to point to unspecified successes of GR as any sort of evidence in favor of F & F...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/16/us/16guns.html

[MyrnaLoy]

10. so being

only a part of (hahahahaha, nice one) I would guess the arrest rate and confiscation of firearms is actually much higher.

[petronius]

11. Uh, no. You've got it backwards. You credited GR with a certain amount of

undetailed success - there's no indication that F&F is responsible for any fraction of that. And even if it was, that doesn't erase the flaws and failings of F&F...

Edit: By the way, that "part of" you found so amusing is a quote from the column you lifted your sig line from (perhaps you should reread it?). The column makes no mention of any successes due to F & F itself:

Fast and Furious was part of Project Gunrunner, a broad A.T.F. program aimed at stemming the flow of guns to criminal groups in Mexico. Since it began in 2006, Gunrunner has seized more than 10,000 firearms and led to the arrests of more than 800 suspects.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/16/us/16guns.html

[friendly_iconoclast]

23. According to the quote you like to use, there was 1 death for every 5.3 arrests.

And you maintain that this is a "success"?

[Hangingon]

14. Yes, the program used to work.

[Katya Mullethov]

17. Things changed in 2009

Some kind of fundamental change or transformation I'd wager .

[ileus]

8. Another new pov....thanks for sharing. k&r'd

[X_Digger]

12. Gah.. sickening..

This from the supervisor..

“I don’t know what all the issues are but we are all adults, we are all professionals, and we have an exciting opportunity to use the biggest tool in our law enforcement tool box. If you don’t think this is fun you are in the wrong line of work — period!”

In May 2010, Dodson asked his supervisors whether they “were prepared to attend the funeral of a slain agent or officer after he or she was killed with one of those straw-purchased firearms.”

Dodson later told a congressional committee that Voth responded to the complaints by saying, “If you are going to make an omelet, you need to scramble some eggs.”

I love though how wapo makes it out to be a local operation gone slightly awry.

[AzWorker]

20. A bit beyond 'local' I'm afraid....

Grassley and Issa's report released today paints quite a picture using Agent testimony. Today's hearing s should be interesting.