Neighborhood to protest store that sold gun to Midtown (Atlanta) shooting suspect

[jpak]

http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/neighborhood-to-protest-store-1052377.html

A former state legislator plans to lead a protest Thursday demanding that a southwest Atlanta pawn shop stop selling guns.

One woman was killed and two others wounded Friday, July 15, 2011, when a man opened fire in a parking deck at 14th Street and Crescent Avenue in Midtown.

The store, North Side Loan, sold a handgun to Nkosi Thandiwe weeks before the 22-year-old security guard allegedly shot three women in Midtown, killing one and leaving another paralyzed.

"We're asking that they not sell guns at this location that is a block from Booker T. Washington High School and backs up to a residential area," Mable Thomas, former state representative for District 55, told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

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[ileus]

1. 22-year-old security guards kill people...

[PavePusher]

2. So, where should gun stores be? n/t

[iverglas]

4. how about in the nice neighbourhoods?

Lots of business there, surely.

The point is that this is not a gun store, it's a pawn shop. It's the kind of business attracted to low-income, underdeveloped neighbourhoods. That's reasonable. And in fact, those businesses do provide a needed service, even if on unfavourable terms.

The question is whether it's appropriate for a neighbourhood pawn shop in a disadvantaged neighbourhood to be a gun dealer.

Hope that helped.

[SteveM]

9. Ah, first "gun shows," now "pawn shops"....

The controller/banner first goes after a mythical "gun show loophole," and now Iverglas "questions" the appropriateness of a pawn shop selling guns in a "disadvantaged neighborhood."

Poor disadvantaged folks shouldn't have the same right to keep and bear arms -- even if their neighborhood disadvantages include excessive robbery, home invasion and drive-bys -- that folks in the 'burbs enjoy. Why of course! It's called

elitism.

[iverglas]

33. first "iverglas", then every unnamed non-existent person in your universe

The controller/banner first goes after a mythical "gun show loophole, ..."

(a) So? Did you think you were in some other thread speaking to some other person?

(b) Just because your false statement can't be allowed to stand:

- vendors who are not licensed dealers may sell firearms at gun shows without doing background checks on purchasers
- everyone knows that some of these vendors are carrying on business, and honest people even say it
- even where the vendor is Joe Blow from Yeller Holler who just wants to sell his grandpappy's semi-auto (and pays the fees for using the gun show for that purpose), the gun show itself provides the equivalent of a gun supermarket for purchasers who do not wish to undergo background checks, since multiple "private" vendors at a gun show are precisely the same, from the perspective of such persons, as a single gun store: Smörgåsbord!


... and now Iverglas "questions" the appropriateness of a pawn shop selling guns in a "disadvantaged neighborhood."

And you are asserting a connection between these two assertions, which is ... ?


Poor disadvantaged folks shouldn't have the same right to keep and bear arms

May I quote you?? HAHAHAHAHAH.

No, you're right, there's no problem. The gun in question that prompted these objections wasn't used to do anything bad at all.


even if their neighborhood disadvantages include excessive robbery, home invasion and drive-bys

A pistol in your pocket ... such an excellent defence against a drive-by ...

Conversely, though: a pistol in your pocket ... such an excellent thing to use to commit a drive-by ...

[baldguy]

67. There is no "gun show loophole"

Just like there aren't 30,000 gun deaths each year in America, and Anders Brevik was a Muslim extremist who attacked a Hitler Youth camp.

:sarcasm: for the sarcasm-impaired.

[gejohnston]

68. Two strawmen in one post

and you can legally buy a machine gun at gun show, just like Al Qaida said, and Think Progress repeated without doing any fact checking. Just like an FFL does not have to background checks (and private sales if state requires it) at a gun show. Right.

[baldguy]

69. You forgot the :sarcasm: tag.

Oh....wait... you were being SERIOUS!?!?

:blush:

[Atypical Liberal]

13. If they have an FFL, they are a gun store.

The point is that this is not a gun store, it's a pawn shop. It's the kind of business attracted to low-income, underdeveloped neighbourhoods. That's reasonable. And in fact, those businesses do provide a needed service, even if on unfavourable terms.

The question is whether it's appropriate for a neighbourhood pawn shop in a disadvantaged neighbourhood to be a gun dealer.

First of all, if they are selling guns legally, they have an FFL. This means they must be a commercial firearm selling business - a gun store. It may be a gun store that sells other things, or a store that is also a gun store, but it is most definitely, legally, a gun store.

Secondly, where is it written that people in poor neighborhoods should not or can not have access to firearm stores? Are they too stupid or something and have to be saved from themselves? Or are they to be denied nearby, affordable places to purchase items for self-defense?

It sounds like you are saying it's OK to have firearms in affluent neighborhoods because those citizens know how to behave themselves. But those uppity poor people can't be trusted with easy access to firearms.

[iverglas]

37. yes, pretend there was no point

The point is that this is a business that does provide a service for which there is demand in the community.

I'm not remotely interested in your completely pointless nattering about how a store that sells guns is a gun store. Why do you waste your time like this? Sears sells shoes. Sears is not "a shoe store". Or maybe you will assure me that when you announce that you are going to Sears to look at shoes, you actually do say "I am going to the shoe store".

If selling guns is such a large segment of its trade that it could not survive without it, then it very certainly does not belong in that location.

Secondly, where is it written that people in poor neighborhoods should not or can not have access to firearm stores?

Eight-fifthly, where is it written by me that they should not? Aim your nasty little loaded questions at someone who likes that sort of thing. There are lots of them around here.

Now you tell me what affluent neighbourhood would welcome a gun dealer in a residential neighbourhood a block from a school. 'K?

It sounds like you are saying it's OK to have firearms in affluent neighborhoods because those citizens know how to behave themselves. But those uppity poor people can't be trusted with easy access to firearms.

No, it doesn't, not even to someone who says it does.

It sounds to me like I think that communities should have a voice and a vote on their living conditions, and you don't think so at all.

I mean, you did notice that it is THE COMMUNITY that is objecting to that trade in that location, right? Too bad so sad: it wasn't me doing it. So it very definitely 100% absolutely DID NOT SOUND LIKE it was me saying any such thing.

[Atypical Liberal]

39. Oh there is definitely a point...

The point is that this is a business that does provide a service for which there is demand in the community.

Yes, indeed it does.

I'm not remotely interested in your completely pointless nattering about how a store that sells guns is a gun store. Why do you waste your time like this? Sears sells shoes. Sears is not "a shoe store". Or maybe you will assure me that when you announce that you are going to Sears to look at shoes, you actually do say "I am going to the shoe store".

This does not change the fact that in order to sell firearms through a retail establishment you have to have a FFL license, and you cannot have an FFL license unless you are have a retail physical place of business for the purpose of selling firearms.

We can argue the semantics of what to call the store all day long. The fact of the matter is, it is, by law, considered a gun store, and is licensed as such.

If selling guns is such a large segment of its trade that it could not survive without it, then it very certainly does not belong in that location.

Why? Are people in poor neighbors incapable of acting civilly with the temptation of a firearm store nearby? Are people in poor neighborhoods undeserving of access to stores that sell them the things they want to buy? Should gun stores only be put in up-scale, higher-rent parts of town, driving the cost of obtaining such goods and services higher for people coming from poorer neighborhoods?

Secondly, where is it written that people in poor neighborhoods should not or can not have access to firearm stores?

Eight-fifthly, where is it written by me that they should not?

You said: "The question is whether it's appropriate for a neighbourhood pawn shop in a disadvantaged neighbourhood to be a gun dealer."

You also said: "If selling guns is such a large segment of its trade that it could not survive without it, then it very certainly does not belong in that location.

What I take away from this is that you think it is inappropriate to have firearms in disadvantaged neighborhoods. Is this a correct assessment of your position?

Now you tell me what affluent neighbourhood would welcome a gun dealer in a residential neighbourhood a block from a school. 'K?

Me. Madison Guns is right around the corner from my home, and is about equally distant to the nearest elementary school. Or it was. I just found out last weekend they just went out of business. I don't have a problem with this at all.

It sounds to me like I think that communities should have a voice and a vote on their living conditions, and you don't think so at all.

No one, including you, said anything about living conditions in neighborhoods, nor communities voting on them. We were talking about gun stores in disadvantaged neighborhoods, which, as I said, your quotes (above) seem to indicate you think are not appropriate to have in that location.

I mean, you did notice that it is THE COMMUNITY that is objecting to that trade in that location, right? Too bad so sad: it wasn't me doing it. So it very definitely 100% absolutely DID NOT SOUND LIKE it was me saying any such thing.

Yes, certain people from the community are objecting, but so were you. You can re-read what you said above.

[iverglas]

41. dog this is fun

This does not change the fact that in order to sell firearms through a retail establishment you have to have a FFL license, and you cannot have an FFL license unless you are have a retail physical place of business for the purpose of selling firearms.

And this does not change the fact that I said SWEET BUGGER ALL about any licence for anything and you have simply pretended that what I said meant ... WHAT? Nothing useful or meaningful or relevant, apart from the fact that what it meant was what it said.

For the love of fucking fuck.

We can argue the semantics of what to call the store all day long. The fact of the matter is, it is, by law, considered a gun store, and is licensed as such.

No, you can attempt to misprepresent what I said as long and hard as you want. The universe will go on as it was.

If selling guns is such a large segment of its trade that it could not survive without it, then it very certainly does not belong in that location.
Why? followed by a series of bizarre, insulting hypotheses that no honest or decent person could have imagined for a moment were held by me ... in complete disregard of everything I have said in this thread ...

You said: "The question is whether it's appropriate for a neighbourhood pawn shop in a disadvantaged neighbourhood to be a gun dealer."
You also said: "If selling guns is such a large segment of its trade that it could not survive without it, then it very certainly does not belong in that location.
What I take away from this is another bizarre, insulting assertion that no honest or decent person could have imagined for a moment was being made or implied or thought by me.

What I take from this is that you have no regard for civil discourse.

It sounds to me like I think that communities should have a voice and a vote on their living conditions, and you don't think so at all.
No one, including you, said anything about living conditions in neighborhoods, nor communities voting on them. We were talking about gun stores in disadvantaged neighborhoods, which, as I said, your quotes (above) seem to indicate you think are not appropriate to have in that location.

Oh, go play word games with somebody who wants to.

Or educate yourself.

http://www.google.ca/search?q=%22disadvantaged+communities%22+%22living+conditions%22

Your choice.

Yes, certain people from the community are objecting, but so were you. You can re-read what you said above.

Or you can quote me.

Or not.

What.E.Ver.




html fixed

[Atypical Liberal]

47. Guess I touched a nerve.

You seem upset. I guess I touched a nerve.

You said: "The question is whether it's appropriate for a neighbourhood pawn shop in a disadvantaged neighbourhood to be a gun dealer."

Obviously you are questioning whether it's appropriate for a gun dealer to be in a disadvantaged neighborhood.

You also said: "If selling guns is such a large segment of its trade that it could not survive without it, then it very certainly does not belong in that location."

Obviously you don't think gun stores should be in "that location" (a disadvantaged neighborhood).

Since you didn't answer my question, "Is this a correct assessment of your position?", and instead have resorted to blustery panting and wheezing, I will continue to assume that this was a correct assessment.

Face it. You're just mad because your prejudice showed and you got called on it.

[iverglas]

52. guess I flew to the moon

Whatever. I guess if I say it, it's true. Following your example.

Face it. You're just mad because your prejudice showed and you got called on it.

The only nerve your ugly falsehoods touch is the ulnar. Look it up.

[RSillsbee]

54. Alternatively,

you could answer the question

[Atypical Liberal]

55. She can't.

Her paternalistic "we know what's best for those poor people" attitude slipped and now she's crawfishing.

I'm reminded of those people who are against advertising for lottery tickets and alcohol in poor neighborhoods, or the attempts of Bloomberg and Patterson to ban the purchase of high-calorie drinks with food stamps. Don't you know? Those poor people are just too dumb to resist those temptations without someone who knows better looking out for them.

Blech.

[RSillsbee]

56. I think you're right NT

[ManiacJoe]

16. What difference does it make that

the gun dealer is also a pawn shop owner or not? The same laws and regs apply to the dealer whether the dealer is only a gun dealer or is also a pawn shop owner.

[krispos42]

26. Well, guns are often sold for ready cash.

And, it being a pawn shop, odds are the guy doing the pawning (pawner?) isn't going to be able to buy the gun back. At some point, after a period of time where the gun is locked up in the store, the pawn broker will sell the gun according to state and federal law. Remember, he's an FFL. And, in fact, I think that even if the pawner scrapes up the cash to buy his gun back, he STILL has to go through a background check as if he was buying a different gun.

This is, in my opinion, vastly superior to the pawner selling his gun to somebody on the street for a quick buck to keep the lights on or the rent caught up.

[RSillsbee]

42. Why wouldn't it be?

Poor people don't have a right to self defense?

[iverglas]

44. "Poor people don't have a right to self defense?"

[RSillsbee]

46. Que es esto? NT

[iverglas]

51. it's a picture of spit

the response your post deserved.

[RSillsbee]

53. Alternatively,

you could actually respond to the questions asked and tell us why a disadvantaged neighborhood is an inappropriate location for a gun shop.

Whould an affluent neighborhood be better suited? If so, why?

[-..__...]

58. Well...

that's real mature.:eyes:

And here we just had a recent thread regarding how DU is perceived to the progressive media... way to go Iver.

Tsk... tsk... tsk.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=439998&mesg_id=439998

BTW.. I still see you're hotlinking to copyrighted media.

To be perfectly honest with you, it's no sweat off my balls, but it is against DU rules.

And coming from someone that has a habit of calling out others regarding the rules... it is rather hypocritical on your part.

Copyright issues and Bandwidth Theft

Do not steal someone else's bandwidth by posting images that are hosted on another website. Democratic Underground is a high-traffic website, so posting images from other sites will cause their server load to increase dramatically, and might even cost the website owner money. If you wish to post an image from another website, you must contact the owner of the other website to get their consent.

It's right there in back and white... how could you have missed it?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

[iverglas]

3. indeed ...

Thomas, whose district included the Washington High School neighborhood and stretched north into Buckhead, questioned why pawn shops in other neighborhoods don't sell guns.

"The pawn shop on Howell Mill Road and the Wal-Mart on Howell Mill don't sell guns," she said. "Why do you think that is?"

Thomas offered her own answer.

"When you have a company, you pick your product mix based on the demographics of the neighborhood or community you're in," she said. "It comes down to whether or not the community is respected, whether or not the community is organized, and whether or not the community is going to stand for it."

Guns on the streets and community development.

Mutually exclusive.

Which comes first? One of those chicken and egg things.

Underdeveloped communities attract businesses like these, businesses like these contribute to community underdevelopment.

Hard to develop a community when you're dodging bullets.

[SteveM]

10. In Austin, Texas, most pawnshops sell firearms...

except most of those located on the mythical "East Side" where people of color live. And where are the pawnshops which sell firearms located? In commercial strips along main highways and in no particular "neighborhood."

A more prosaic reason why some pawnshops don't sell guns: Such requires a Federal Firearms License and all the paperwork which goes with that.

[iverglas]

38. okay

And where are the pawnshops which sell firearms located? In commercial strips along main highways and in no particular "neighborhood."

I think we're agreeing? If we're agreeing that this is an appropriate location for a gun dealer, and a residential neighbourhood isn't.

[RSillsbee]

43. Why isn't a residential neighbourhood

an appropriate location for a gun dealer? I don't get the logistics, do the eeeeevil guns sneak out of the store at night to wreak havoc on the unsuspecting neighborhood?

[iverglas]

45. "do the eeeeevil guns sneak out of the store at night ...

... to wreak havoc on the unsuspecting neighborhood?

Since you're the one whose head came up with the idea, this is for you:

[RSillsbee]

48. Since you're the one who came up w/ the idea

that a gun store was inappropriate for a underprivileged neighborhood why don't you share your rationale w/ us?

I mean if it's that flippin' obvious to you it shouldn't be too hard fro you to explain to us gunloving knuckle draggers

[DonP]

5. Gee, maybe they'll be as successful as Jesse Jackson and Flaky Pfleger...

... and get arrested for trespassing and held overnight when they tried to force their way into Chuck's Gun Shop (Dolton IIRC?).

The only question worth asking is - did the pawn shop owner obey the law and the requirements of his FFL, check the 4473 and run the appropriate NICS background check and confirm the purchaser was a resident of Georgia? If he didn't, he's complicit, he loses the license and does his time. If he did, what's the point where the school or residential area of located?

Unless of course someone can point to an incidence of gun stores firing wildly out their windows or roofs and wounding neighbors? That's the kind of dumb crap that just got Chicago spanked by the court in Ezell v. Chicago earlier this month. Another nice check from Chicago to Mr. Gura and the NRA.

[iverglas]

8. oh, no; that's not gloating I see, is it

The only question worth asking is ...

Why? Because you said so?

Because you believe that underdeveloped/disadvantaged communities should not question the presence in their residential communities of businesses that supply firearms?

Good for you. Let them know, and I'm sure they'll reconsider.

[DonP]

15. Then write father Pfleger a nice check for $10 C, whatever the hell that's worth today

Of course it's gloating, Pfleger is a total ass hat who's unintended consequence of driving out all the stores that sold alcohol and tobacco in his area, created a food desert in his own parish by driving out all the grocery stores too. But he meant well and that's all that counts.

But I'm sure you'll want to do something other than just spout off online, right?

But cheer up, along with a check every now and then you can write him a nice long, typically verbose and meandering note, care of St. Sabina parish, about how concerned and supportive you are. The good news is, he can't put regular mail deliveries on "ignore".

It might be nice, just once, to see someone that believes in more gun control to actually do something besides whine on and on about it.

[Hoopla Phil]

6. The theme of the protest? Security guards should not have guns.

[Hoyt]

7. Just goes to show that current background checks are worthless, need mental assessment, etc.

I can't blame the pawnshop.

I can blame gunners who support right wingers -- who are the main legislators who write/support laws that make gun ownership and carrying way too easy.

BTW -- I hope they find out the motive behind the shooting. Otherwise, this may be a case of a "legitimate" gun carrier going berserk. Something they tell us doesn't happen . . . . . .

[SteveM]

11. "...current [bg] checks are worthless, need mental assessment, etc."

Care to explain in particular what this means, providing some standards as to what "mental assessment" and "etc." mean? And whether or not such assessment will protect a citizen's right to due process, as it is protected now under NICS?

Much as you like to "tag" those who support the RKBA as "right wingers," you continue to fail. Review the stands of Eleanor Roosevelt and Eugene V. Debs, for starters.

[DonP]

27. He can't answer now. Mom came home with the groceries

As soon as he helps her unload the mini van and put everything away he can come back and answer all our questions on improving the NICS check system vis a vis mental health issues - without violating privacy rights.

The ACLU and NRA both are struggling with it, but I'm sure Hoyt has the answer.

He can probably also solve the problem of what constitutes a mental disability sufficient to stop a citizen from owning a firearm, or voting. We certainly don't want anyone voting that has "issues".

[friendly_iconoclast]

31. He's such a good son. And civic minded, too.

Giving of his innate wisdom to those of us who have been misled by our life experiences into thinking we might know

whereof we speak.


psst: Just don't mention "Paisley Syndrome" to him- posters like that are helping to make the expansion of gun control the

roaring success that it is...

[Hoopla Phil]

17. Your right. And competency test should be administered before voting.

I know this lady that votes on how a candidates eyes look. Can you believe that?! We must test these fools and stop the harm they are doing.

[spin]

18. About your idea of a mental assessment ...

What type of mental assessment would you implement? How much would it cost?

Is this what you have in mind?

Mental Health Assessment

A mental health assessment gives your doctor an overall picture of how well you feel emotionally and how well you are able to think, reason, and remember (cognitive functioning). Your doctor will ask you questions and examine you. You might answer some of the doctor's questions in writing. Your doctor will pay attention to how you look and your mood, behavior, thinking, reasoning, memory, and ability to express yourself. Your doctor will also ask questions about how you get along with other people, including your family and friends. Sometimes the assessment includes lab tests, such as blood or urine tests.

A mental health assessment may be done by your primary care doctor or by a psychiatrist, psychologist, or social worker.

A mental health assessment includes an interview with a doctor and may also involve a physical exam and written or verbal tests.
Interview

During the interview, your doctor pays attention to how you look (for example: Are you standing up straight? Are your shoes tied? Are you neat and clean?), how you move, what type of mood you seem to be in, and how you behave. You will be asked to talk about your symptoms and complaints. Be as detailed as possible. If you have kept a diary or journal of your symptoms, share this with your doctor.

Your doctor may ask you questions to check how well you think, reason, and remember (your cognitive functioning). He or she may ask you questions to find out how you think, how you feel about life, and whether you are likely to commit suicide.
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/mental-health-assessment

I can see several problems with a mental assessment.

1) Expense. A visit to my GP would run over $100 and he probably would add the cost of administering the test. This cost might make it difficult for lower income people to acquire a license. It should never be our objective to create a system where the well to do can afford a carry permit and the poor (who often live in dangerous neighborhoods) would find it difficult.

2) I'm not sure that my doctor would ever want to administer such a test as he might fear a lawsuit if he determined a person was sane and the individual developed severe mental issues at a later date.

3) Many doctors oppose gun ownership and might well say that the applicant was mentally unqualified to carry a firearm because of their own dislike of firearms. In fact, it is quite possible that some doctors would have an opinion that anyone who wanted to carry a firearm must have mental issues.

4) How qualified is a general practitioner or primary care physician to determine mental sanity?

Who is qualified to perform psychological testing?

Licensed clinical psychologists, counseling psychologists and school psychologists are typically qualified to perform psychological assessments. The activity of these professionals is regulated by appropriate state statutes and licensing boards. It is wise to check to make sure the assessing professional is licensed. If in doubt, ask the professional to describe her qualifications to perform the evaluation
https://www.valueoptions.com/mc/eMember/whatIsPsychologicalTesting.do

5) How accurate are these tests in predicting future behavior?

Psychological tests may be able to describe my current situation, but how good are they at predicting behavior?

Psychological and neuropsychological tests can predict general trends and behaviors, but are not designed to predict future actions, thoughts, feelings or behaviors. For example, the ability of psychological tests to predict violence or suicide is limited, though suspicion might be raised by specific test findings. Such predictions are improved by establishing an ongoing relationship with a professional over a longer period of time.emphasis added
https://www.valueoptions.com/mc/eMember/whatIsPsychologicalTesting.do

6) Such a requirement might open the door to the same racism that is often found in states that have "may issue" concealed carry. A middle aged white business man might pass the test which is somewhat subjective. A young black or Hispanic male might find it more difficult.

****

I will agree with you that we want to keep firearms out of the hands of those who have severe mental problems. That's one reason why I favor the position of Obama and the Brady Campaign to Reduce Gun violence on improving the NICS background check system. Even the NRA agrees. That's high unusual but does indicate that it is quite possible that Congress would approve and fund such improvements.

Brady Background Checks Mental Health NICS

POSITION: The Brady Campaign supports strengthening the Brady background check system to make it harder for criminals and other dangerous people to buy firearms. The Brady Campaign supported the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007, which provides for financial assistance to aid states in sending records to the National Instant Check System (NICS).


PROBLEM: Many states fail to supply complete records of prohibited gun buyers to the national Brady background check system or the Brady Law's National Instant Check System. That means many felons, domestic violence abusers, and those who are dangerously mentally ill can walk into a gun store and buy firearms without being stopped.

***snip***

THREAT: Allowing dangerous people to purchase guns threatens the safety of our families and communities. The Virginia Tech tragedy -- 32 students and teachers killed in the worst mass shooting in American history -- is an example of the dangers of this records gap. A court order finding the killer mentally ill and dangerous had not been entered into the Brady background check system by the State of Virginia.

***snip***

SOLUTION: States must take legislative or administrative action to submit disqualifying records of prohibited purchasers to NICS and ensure that all disqualifying records are submitted to NICS. Congress should fully fund the NICS Improvement Amendments Act to help states submit records.
http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/nics/

President Obama: We must seek agreement on gun reforms

***snip***

I'm willing to bet that responsible, law-abiding gun owners agree that we should be able to keep an irresponsible, law-breaking few - dangerous criminals and fugitives, for example - from getting their hands on a gun in the first place.

***snip***

• First, we should begin by enforcing laws that are already on the books. The National Instant Criminal Background Check System is the filter that's supposed to stop the wrong people from getting their hands on a gun. Bipartisan legislation four years ago was supposed to strengthen this system, but it hasn't been properly implemented. It relies on data supplied by states - but that data is often incomplete and inadequate. We must do better.

• Second, we should in fact reward the states that provide the best data - and therefore do the most to protect our citizens.

• Third, we should make the system faster and nimbler. We should provide an instant, accurate, comprehensive and consistent system for background checks to sellers who want to do the right thing, and make sure that criminals can't escape it.

Read more: http://azstarnet.com/article_011e7118-8951-5206-a878-39bfbc9dc89d.html#ixzz1TRa2P0sk

Wayne LaPierre Reluctantly Admits He Supports President Obama's New Gun Safety Proposals
March 14, 2011 6:07 pm ET — Chris Brown

Today, National Rifle Association (NRA) executive vice president Wayne LaPierre appeared on Fox News' America Live to discuss President Obama's new gun safety proposals and found himself in the unusual position of agreeing with the man the NRA calls "the most anti-gun president in American history."

***snip***

On Fox News, LaPierre started off by ignoring the content of President Obama's proposals and suggesting he isn't interested in having a "dialogue" on guns. But when pressed, LaPierre reluctantly admitted he supports funding the NICS system.

LaPIERRE: Look, NRA's all for the Instant Check. We were there before anyone else was even talking about it. We need to fund it, we to make the sure the states turn over their records.

In the past, we've documented LaPierre's reluctance to vocalize support for fully funding the NICS background check system. LaPierre's reluctance is likely explained by NRA's heavy investment ($15 million in 2008) in attacking Obama and convincing people that he is going to be seizing their guns any moment now. This factually challenged dystopian world view might help NRA fundraising, but it doesn't reflect the reality of the president's common sense gun safety proposals.
http://politicalcorrection.org/blog/201103140014

[Hoyt]

20. Truthfully, Spin, I wouldn't make it difficult. If applicant has gun cache with tactical weapons and

has a bunch of holsters for hiding them in their groin, up their rear; carrying two; hi cap mags; has Aryan Nation paraphernalia; confederate flags; live in a compound; is afraid of their own shadow; etc. -- they obviously should not be allowed to carry a gun in public parks, restaurants, churches, bars, etc. Need to put beepers/lights on their guns that go off outside their house -- I don't really care what kind of gun ritual or perversion they are into at home with the dang things.

Government should keep a record of every gun people buy. When it goes over the threshold the LOCAL evaluation board pays them a visit and charges them directly for "certifying" that the guy is not some kind of danger to society -- directly or indirectly. If they have the latest, most lethal loads, I'd vote for the same. If their guns clearly aren't for defense, government should question their intent. If they shoot silhouette targets, society should question their intent. I could go on and on.

Am I serious -- pretty much, although I admit it will be difficult to implement, mainly because the whining will be deafening from those who can't live without a gun in their waistband or touching their privates while standing in line at Chuck E Cheeze.

[Blown330]

21. Given your obsession...

...with the nether-regions of other people, it is easy to see why you would support forcing such a plan on everyone else. By the merits of any mental examination, you'd fail and therefore if you can't possess a gun than nobody else should either. Obsessive, compulsive, irrational, impotent and uncontrollable anger...you certainly shouldn't be let near anything even remotely dangerous.

[iverglas]

40. they're such civil sorts, aren't they?

By the merits of any mental examination, you'd fail and therefore if you can't possess a gun than nobody else should either. Obsessive, compulsive, irrational, impotent and uncontrollable anger...you certainly shouldn't be let near anything even remotely dangerous.

Hey, you forgot to mention drunk. Or some of the more tasteful epithets used against moi which I guess might not apply here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=58295&mesg_id=58299

(the post that's in reply to is pretty funny)

Yes, gun militants are, to a one, civil, intelligent and respectful in their dealings with ... well, with just everyone, eh?

[Blown330]

59. So what you're really saying is...

...that you and Hoyt have a lot in common? I'd agree with that. Playing the victim again you are and you don't possess the mental acuity to comprehend the magnitude of the fuck I do not give.




Oh, and do let the forums know when you come across any of these "gun militants" you keep harping about. I'm sure if there is one on here you'll find them.

[-..__...]

60. "Cry me a river".

Are you that fucking serious about redemption that you'd go back to a thread dating from 2004?!?

:rofl:

You really must be harboring some frustration/anger management issues going on there if you take comments posted on the Internet that seriously.

Amusingly enough... the thread you linked to has comments from one (long ago Tomb Stoned), "MrBenchley"... easily on of the most rabid, obnoxious, bat shit crazy, out of control anti-gun posters ever to grace DU.

And you accuse us "gun militants" (the term of which is insulting as it is), of being uncivil.

LOL.

FWIW.... I miss Benchley, despite his off the wall rants and raves, I found him amusing in a crazy uncle locked in the attic kind of way.

[oneshooter]

22. All of that and STILL no cowboy picture! Shame, Hoyt, Shame!! n/t

[Hoopla Phil]

70. FYI, I think I've found the mythical "Cowboy". . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOuL3tK9t3Y

[spin]

23. The problem is the difficulty to implement this idea ...

In Florida this year, you might remember, the brouhaha that was generated by the fact that pediatricians were asking people if they owned firearms. Now there is a law in Florida that effectively muzzles pediatricians. Of course the instigating event was caused by a pediatrician refusing treatment because the child's mother told him that it was none of his business to ask if she had firearms in her home.

Imagine how much of a stir your idea would generate. The NRA would use the proposal to generate enormous amounts of contributions and the Republicans would dance in joy as they would know that many gun owners would head to the polls to vote against all Democrats as our party is seen as favoring draconian gun laws.

One the other hand, the idea of improving the NICS background check system requires no new laws and only proper financing. Plus it has the support of the President, the Brady Campaign and the NRA.

Providing the funding would be a good first step and I would like to see the NICS background check opened up and required for all gun sales including private sales. This would be far more difficult to accomplish but might well prove to be worth the effort if such a law could pass.

[-..__...]

12. Another shrieker

"We're asking that they not sell guns at this location that is a block from Booker T. Washington High School and backs up to a residential area,

And... what's the significance or harm in that?

Thomas, whose district included the Washington High School neighborhood and stretched north into Buckhead, questioned why pawn shops in other neighborhoods don't sell guns.

"The pawn shop on Howell Mill Road and the Wal-Mart on Howell Mill don't sell guns," she said. "Why do you think that is?"

If I had to hazard a guess... it's probably because those other pawn shops don't want to be an an FFL and having to deal with the ATF; never mind having to deal with the prospect of hand-wringing sob-sisters and clueless pearl clutchers protesting outside their store front.

When you have a company, you pick your product mix based on the demographics of the neighborhood or community you're in,

Then maybe Ms. Thomas can enlighten us which of the following "product mix" might also be unsuitable for the demographics of the neighborhood...

* Diamond Jewelry and Rings
* Precious Gems
* Fine Gold
* Designer Watches
* Desktop & Laptop Computers and Peripherals
* iPODS
* Digital Cameras & Camcorders
* DVD Player/Recorders
* 1000s of DVD Movies
* Televisions
* Over 9000 CDs!
* Name Brand Sunglasses
* Pistols and Rifles
* Musical Equipment/Guitars/Band Instruments
* Hi-End Bicycles
* Power Tools
* Video Gaming Systems (Nintendo/XBox/PS3)
* Video Games
* MP3 Players
* And Much MUCH More!

http://northsideloan.com/merchandise.htm

I mean, it stands to reason that if North Side Loan is in a poor, depressed, ethnic neighborhood, it would not be beneficial to the community, or people living on meager, fixed incomes, to be blowing their money on precious gems, fine gold, name brand sunglasses, hi-end bicycles, etc.

But no... instead she focus's her frustration on the gun sales at this particular location; a gun that could just have been easily bought anywhere else in the city.

I have a better answer... maybe Ms. Thomas needs to stop thinking so much (actually... start thinking more), and realize there's no insidious plot by NSL to infest her community with firearms, and accept it on face value that NSL is simply a pawn shop that caters to a wide variety of demands and customers from both inside and outside the community.

[iverglas]

29. and who's that?

the target of that not very veiled bit of misogny there?

(Do men "shriek"? Perhaps; are they described as "shriekers"? I'll have to google ...)

Was it the person who said this, which you quote? --

"We're asking that they not sell guns at this location that is a block from Booker T. Washington High School and backs up to a residential area, ..."

Ow, my ears are hurting from all that shrieking.


I mean, it stands to reason that if North Side Loan is in a poor, depressed, ethnic neighborhood, it would not be beneficial to the community, or people living on meager, fixed incomes, to be blowing their money on precious gems, fine gold, name brand sunglasses, hi-end bicycles, etc.

Perhaps so. On the other hand, it may be beneficial for them to be able to trade those items for money to buy food -- something to which I already alluded in this thread.

Can you google me up a homicide-by-name-brand-sunglasses? Even a mugging will do.


I have a better answer... maybe Ms. Thomas needs to stop thinking so much (actually... start thinking more), and realize there's no insidious plot by NSL to infest her community with firearms

I won't comment on your thought process, since it's quite obvious.

But maybe you should consider not making your insulting and false allegations about someone else quite so public.

I mean, unless you have some evidence that Thomas actually says or even things that there IS an "insidious plot by NSL to infest her community with firearms". You certainly haven't presented any.

I think I'm going to make this my sig line:

If you have facts and argument on your side, here's an idea: state them, instead of making up shit and ascribing it to people who have the intolerable gall to disagree with you.



html fixed

[-..__...]

61. Tell me omething...

what is it with this "misogny" (sic) complex of yours?

And why is it a recurring theme of your's in the "Guns" forum of all places?

Yeah... I know about the failed rape attempt and all that, but why you persist to focus you anger and frustration WRT womyn's issues here is non productive, foolish and irrelevant.

As for the rest of your blather regarding this situation... I don't care, I really don't.

You're a sad hopeless person.

Whatever your issues are... best of luck in facing and dealing with them.

[gejohnston]

62. Ironic in a way too,

never seen that growing up. Never met one that was from the mountain west, unless a city person in Colorado Springs or Denver. But Farson or Lander, Wyoming, no. Now that I think about it, maybe there is a reason why the Wyoming/Idaho/Montana misogynist is an endangered specie:

http://rfgblog.maryjanesfarm.org/default.asp?Display=23




Just a thought.

[Atypical Liberal]

49. Can't have those uppity poor people buying guns!

Everyone knows those poor people can't be trusted with firearms. We know what's best for them, after all. We don't need any uppity poor people buying firearms!

(sarcasm)

[SteveM]

14. Better thread title: "Let's restrict the RKBA for disadvantaged people."

After all, they ain't got much power, so we stand a better chance of restricting them compared to.... others.

Now, it makes sense, no?

[spin]

19. Sounds like the New York City approach to me ....

Son of a Gun: More Celebrities Than Ever Are Carrying Firearms

By Tim Nudd Monday September 27, 2010 10:50 AM EDT


From left: Marc Anthony, Robert De Niro and Donald Trump

***snip***

Seeking an added layer of protection, more high-profile celebrities are seeking permits to carry guns in New York City, according to New York's Daily News.

Among the big names licensed to pack heat: Marc Anthony, Robert De Niro, Donald Trump, and his son, Donald Jr., Mets third baseman David Wright, and Martha Stewart's daughter, radio host Alexis Stewart.

***snip***

Gun permit aren't easy, or cheap, to get. Applicants must show that they often carry large amounts of cash or valuables, or that they are being threatened in some way. And the application alone costs a nonrefundable $340.

Despite the rise in applications from celebrities, the number of permits issued in New York City is actually down by 2.4 percent this year, to 2,093.
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20429404,00.html

New York City has a population of 8,175,133 and there are only 2,093 carry permits. Hillsborough County in Florida, in which Tampa is located, has a population of 1,229,226 and there are 40,818 people with concealed weapons permits.

[iverglas]

30. and then there's the gun militant position

Let's be sure that disadvantaged individuals and communities are victims of firearms violence in numbers and ways so disproportionate to their numbers that ... hold on! No conclusions can be drawn from that! It's random! And if it isn't, nothing can be done about it! Guns! More guns!

[friendly_iconoclast]

32. Absolutely.Those neighborhoods would perk right up if only the locals had to

go to the 'burbs to buy guns legally....

[Atypical Liberal]

57. Sounds a lot like the food stamp position.

Obesity correlates with income, also.

Maybe we should do like New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg and New York Gov. David Patterson, who asked for the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) to ban the use of food stamps on beverages with more than 10 calories per eight ounces, with the exception of sugar-free juices, milk products and substitutes?

I guess those people living in disadvantaged neighborhoods are just to stupid to know what's good for them, eh?

It's paternalistic garbage.

[rl6214]

24. Aren't you the same one that said

only bullies boycott a business to force their way to be the only way?

Pretty sure it was you but I'm not going to waste my time looking for the post.

[Hoopla Phil]

34. Aa yes, here is that thread now. . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x417619

And here is the citation your referenced. Very good memory you have there.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x417619#417628

"Bullies with Jackboots

and guns

yup"

[rl6214]

63. Thank you Phil

I knew someone with a little more time than I had at that time would find it and post it up.

[krispos42]

66. Excellent recall!

:rofl:

[friendly_iconoclast]

35. Why yes, he was:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=431257

We have always been at war with Eastasia...

[rl6214]

64. Thank you Friendly_I

I knew someone with a little more time than I had at that time would find it and post it up.

[Travis_0004]

25. Its a shame I don't live closer.

If I lived there, I walk into the store during the protest, and buy a nice handgun. I'd bring a clear plastic bag for them to put it in, so they could see it on the way out.

[gejohnston]

28. that works great

Fred Phelps and his crew showed up at McConnell AFB, waiving their bullshit signs, some years ago. I bought a Queen CD from the exchange just to give them some Freddy Mercury at high volume as I drove out the gate.

:toast:

[friendly_iconoclast]

36. +1. I had to content with giving the finger to those "Right To Life" assholes at Planned Parenthood

after a checkup....

[ileus]

50. How sad people need to support businesses in their neighborhood.

[-..__...]

65. If not...

the alternative could be the shop owner saying to himself "screw it... I don't need this shit" and relocate the entire buisness elsewhere, and I wouldn't blame him one bit for doing so.

With Ms. Thomas' leadership and vision... I'm certain she'd have no problem persuading a more community friendly business like Louis Vitton, Banana Republic, Swarovski, etc to take over the vacated premise.