Murder - Suicide 13-Year-Old Shot by Mom

[mikeb302000]

http://bethesda.patch.com/articles/police-investigating-possible-murder-suicide-in-kensington">The Bethesba Patch reports on this sad story

Margaret Jensvold shot and killed her son, Ben Barnhard, and then turned the gun on herself, according police.

The story explains that the boy suffered from obesity, that the estranged dad had been accused of domestic violence but protection had been denied by the court.

In the end, it was the mom who and the gun and the insanity to use it in this way. The reason this is noteworthy is this. http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2009/07/guns-and-women.html">Usually women are the recipients of this type of domestic violence.

http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/">(cross posted at Mikeb302000)

What do you think? Please leave a comment.

[Mimosa]

1. It's more complicated than a 'gun' story

There's a broken family situation here which included domestic abuse, as well as possible mental illness. This country needs mental health resources. :(

[Ruby the Liberal]

2. Agreed. This isn't a gungeon story.

Could have just as easily locked him in the car and fired the engine in a closed garage.

WTF is wrong with people. Wanna go? Fine - leave and don't let the door hit you om the way out, but MUST you take others with you? /rant

Indeed - we need mental health resources, yesterday. For now, what do we do?

[DrDan]

3. but she didn't - she used a gun

[Ruby the Liberal]

4. You missed the point

I am agreeing that this isn't a gun forum issue, it is one of mental illness, not gun ownership rights and/or abuse.

This would have unfortunately happened whether or not she had a weapon.

[LAGC]

5. Exactly.

The particular tool people use to kill others is irrelevant.

The fact that they feel killing is their only option is the real problem here.

We definitely need to increase funding for our pitiful mental health system.

[Mimosa]

6. Andrea yates, Susan Smith, and hundreds more didn't use guns to kill their children

These sad stories happen every day, nearly. I read one in the AJC just yesterday. I think the current depressing economy is somewhat of a factor.

[iverglas]

20. they also didn't kill themselves

Back to the subject now?

It's homicide-suicide.

[Kennah]

29. So you're pissed that this woman is dead?

[iverglas]

30. what can that "question" possibly mean?

I have no idea.

[DrDan]

8. well, there this

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/07/ohio-shooting-copley_n_920555.html

and this

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/crime-scene/post/four-people-die-in-apparent-homicide-suicide-in-anne-arundel-county/2011/08/07/gIQAas2W1I_blog.html

and how many more over the weekend . . . .

[Ruby the Liberal]

10. DrDan, I think you misunderstand

I am no fan of guns. I loathe them as a matter of fact -opinion of which I wade in and post every so often on S/Gunday when this forum gets a rocking and I am feeling froggy.

You could go as far as to call me a pro semi/auto-weapons gun grabber and I would wear that title proudly. IIRC, my last thread here in this very forum was about how the Norwegian massacre was able to be carried out to it's horrific end based on the ability of Breivik being able to purchase 30 bullet magazines from the US (illegal in Norway) - the same armory of choice of one Jared Loughner in Tuscon in January (not to mention one Richard Poplawski of Pittsburgh in April 2009, whose last memory now will be the alcohol swab for his protection before they put a needle in his arm).

With my anti-gun cred now established, I ask again - How is this a gungeon story and not a mental health issue? If she stabbed him to death before taking a knife to her own jugular, would we be having the same conversation?

[DrDan]

14. thanks

I don't disagree that it is a mental health issue. How could a Mother kill her own son and it not be.

My issue is that it seems to me that the convenience of a loaded gun makes this easier. Emotions get in the way of clear thinking and in just seconds, a life is lost. When when shooter comes to grips with what has just occurred, there appears to be no way out except suicide. I know I am making some gross assumptions, but that scenario makes sense to me on the macro level.

Sure, drownings, knives and all sorts of other means could have been taken. But guns are just so easy to grab, point and shoot.

[gejohnston]

17. like I said when this was posted before

This is common in Japan. The only difference is that we list one murder and one suicide. They would list both as suicide. The gun made no difference what so ever.

[mikeb302000]

27. thanks Dr.Dan for defending my story

and the fact that it is in fact a gun story. The guys complaining about that just like to complain.

[DrDan]

28. particularly when the story casts a negative slant toward guns

I mentioned the other day that I read daily about gun incidents. I was told basically to not read those stories - like that would solve the problem.

[gejohnston]

34. you can read them all you want

still not going to solve the problem. Do you read knife stories? To be honest, if our murder problem were exactly like Russian's you would not think about it because guns are almost never used, just like 75 percent of our violent crime.

[DrDan]

35. 4 stories in this morning's paper

A 79 year old man shoots a 12 year old because the child was "harassing" him

4 found dead in a fire were also shot

4 hit by bullets at a nightclub

a gunman dies in an hourlong standoff


it's not a "murder" problem - it's a gun problem

[gejohnston]

36. by your logic

Russia does not have a gun problem. Gun deaths are almost nonexistent. Their murder rate on the other hand, makes us look like Japan.


I am guessing the last three were gang related, which would happen regardless of gun laws, just like UK and Jamaica.

[DrDan]

43. why would you assume the last story had anything to do with gang violence?

[mikeb302000]

39. I think some of the pro-gun fanatics

are trying to suppress the stories I post. They say they're redundant, but that's not true. Each story is different but they illustrate the same issues.

[DrDan]

42. absolutely they are trying to suppress them - check any other forum

and note the duplicates. The same posters do not complain about them - only the negative gun stories.

[gejohnston]

18. were the magazines illegal?

I know of the hunting regulation. Seems odd that he would have been able to import one without customs catching it.

[iverglas]

21. it is a gun issue

because guns facilitate homicide-suicide.

People seldom stab a family member to death and then jump off a bridge / hit themselves over the head with blunt objects.

Absent a firearm, a homicide is less likely to accompany a suicide.

And given that mothers who commit homicide-suicide involving their children are commonly trying to spare the child the pain of a life that would be intolerable without the mother, it's readily conceivable that absent the firearm, the suicide would not have happened either.

[friendly_iconoclast]

22. "Guns facilitate homicide-suicide" In Japan, these occur at a higher rate than the US- without guns.

Their "suicide" rate (which includes what you and I and the FBI would call 'familial murder-suicides') is higher than our suicide AND
murder rates combined- 99+% of which are committed without guns.

[iverglas]

24. so?

Somebody talking about Japan?

Japan appears to have different problems, I guess. I guess maybe different problems call for different solutions.

Maybe they should provide easy widespread access to firearms. I'm sure the homicide-suicide rate would go down.

[friendly_iconoclast]

32. Maybe, maybe not. *Not* having guns didn't seem to help very much. n/t

[gejohnston]

33. nice straw man

No one is saying widespread access to firearms would cause it to go down. Simply pointing out the fact that the anti side oversimplifies the issue an absurd extreme.

[gejohnston]

38. no still talking about murder suicides or

do you only want to talk about the ones where guns are used?

[mikeb302000]

40. that's a good point about Japan

They don't have the cultural stigma attached to suicide that we do. That's why it's so high there. If guns were suddenly as available there as they are here, the numbers would go through the roof. This is just common sense, which many pro-gun apologists avoid.

[mikeb302000]

25. you don't know that

the highly lethal aspect of a handgun is a factor in these cases. Disarming mentally ill folks is the best way to deal with this.

[gejohnston]

37. You don't know that either

you are just using "common sense" that gets you owned. I noticed that you don't allow comments that disagree with you on your blog.

[mikeb302000]

41. that's a filthy lie

I challenge you to a duel.

[Remmah2]

23. Another wonderful duplicate post.

But if it serves a selfish purpose................

[ileus]

7. Single moms shouldn't be allowed to own guns.

[ellenrr]

9. Is this a serious comment?

Or does this poster think it is a funny story? Cuz I don't. I think it is a tragedy, repeated too often.
Or is the poster trying to make a point which I am missing?
Or he/she is a troll?

...just wondering...

[mikeb302000]

26. I would guess that was a joke

the fact is single moms, or anyone else for that matter, who have severe mental health issues should not own guns.

[Hangingon]

11. unrec - this was discussed earlier.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[X_Digger]

13. Duplicate topic, and blogspam. n/t

[DrDan]

15. thanks for posting mikeb302000 - had not seen the story

[rrneck]

16. A sad tragedy.

Health care in this country is designed to profit from human misery. And it's a long line to the cash window. There are people who will shamelessly flog a blinkered ideology for the chance at a few easy bucks or worse, fleeting attention. Disaster capitalism at its finest.

Unrec for blind link blog flogging of a topic already discussed. Google up some new material.

[iverglas]

19. it is a duplicate

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=444847&mesg_id=444847

Still not far from the top on the first page of the forum.

I've requested that this be combined.

It really is wise to check recent threads.

[SteveM]

31. Duplicate posting and...

S-p-p-p-p-am-a-rama!