Dog Bite Leads to Murder

[mikeb302000]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7696451.html">The Houston Chronicle reports

The incident occurred around 1:10 a.m. when Jones' dog allegedly bit Hinton on his leg during a party at the residence, authorities said. When Hinton confronted Jones about the dog bite, the two became involved in a disturbance, authorities said.

Hinton then left the residence and shortly after returned with a pistol, authorities said. He then allegedly accosted Jones and fired several shots, fatally shooting Jones and striking two other men.

The fascinating part for me is the way the enraged man went out, got the gun, and returned, still angry enough to shoot up the place.

This happens a lot. We often hear of a work confrontation in which somebody goes out to the parking lot to retrieve a gun and comes back to commit murder.

What occurred to me is that claiming concealed carry makes us safer is wrong. Given the minimal training required and the total lack of screening for mental issues, wouldn't concealed carry among civilians increase these types of incidents? In a difficult moment one of these angry guys wouldn't even have to go out to the car for the gun.

Aren't gun onwners subject to the same stresses as other folks? We've shown in http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2009/06/famous-10.html">the Famous 10% Theory that many gun owners are severely afflicted with these ordinary problems. The proliferation of concealed carry is going to do more harm than good, we're already seeing it.

http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/">(cross posted at Mikeb302000)

What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.

[AtheistCrusader]

1. This has not one damn thing to do with concealed carry

and if you had one ounce of actual interest in the topic, you would already know that such altercations have declined in most states that have recently introduced concealed carry, not increased. The 'blood in the streets' argument has been shown for the bag of wind it is, over and over. Even in the actual words of police chiefs that campaigned against concealed carry, and were overruled.


You have two no-issue states for comparison in firearm related violence rates. Get to crackin'.

And quit flogging your for-profit advertising blog on DU.

[lbrtbell]

5. You're right

If the guy had a license to carry, he would've had the gun on him at the time. You don't get a license to carry, then leave your gun at home.

[iverglas]

16. eh?

If the guy had a license to carry, he would've had the gun on him at the time. You don't get a license to carry, then leave your gun at home.

Sez you and what authoritative source?

I'll bet I'm the one who's right when I say: not every person who has a permit to carry a firearm actually takes their gun to parties.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

33. Absolutely right.

Not everyone who has a permit carries all the time. I'd venture to say most don't.

[rrneck]

23. Of course not.

You just get pissed off and go get it.

[AtheistCrusader]

29. HE WAS INSIDE HIS HOME.

Do you even read the article?

[iverglas]

31. I read the article

Where does it say that he (the person with the gun?) was inside his home?

"Hinton then left the residence and shortly after returned with a pistol, authorities said."

Whose residence? It doesn't say anywhere in the article. I suspect a third party's residence, myself.

Why would someone leave his home and return with a pistol? He lives there, but he keeps his gun somewhere else?

[AtheistCrusader]

40. I read it to be Hinton's home, but the houston chronicle article sucks.

Your link reads much more clearly. I withdraw the criticism, my mistake. Too late to edit.

[iverglas]

35. here we are: it was the victim's home

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2011/08/robert_jones_60_bayou_body_cou.php

I'm confused ...

[gejohnston]

2. That is weird. Really unusual too.

We often hear of a work confrontation? You might, I sure don't.

What occurred to me is that claiming concealed carry makes us safer is wrong. Given the minimal training required and the total lack of screening for mental issues, wouldn't concealed carry among civilians increase these types of incidents? In a difficult moment one of these angry guys wouldn't even have to go out to the car for the gun.

Did any empirical evidence occur to you too?

As for your "famous ten percent theory", many of the posters on that blog post said it very well.

The proliferation of concealed carry is going to do more harm than good, we're already seeing it.

Where? Did this guy have a CCW? Was he even a legal gun owner? Not much to go on for a discussion.

Let me add one more thing, I rate it four snoozes.
:boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :thumbsdown:

[PavePusher]

20. Four?!

I could barely stay awake throught the first two... ;>)

[SteveM]

36. That's why drive-ins made double-features.

:boring: :boring:

[petronius]

3. So you're saying that expanded CCW = blood in the streets?

And you base this conclusion on a fanciful extrapolation from an event that has nothing to do with CCW, combined with a series of completely unsupported assertions? :shrug:

Honestly, Mike, it's clear to everyone that your goal for the summer vacation was to achieve fame and fortune as an internet pundit - perhaps impressing even that cool English teacher when school starts again - but you would use your time far better if you spent more of it reading and less of it writing, and worked on honing your logic a bit before pressing 'Post'...

[mikeb302000]

4. that's really funny. Petronius.

When you don't like what I say, you complain that I don't back it up with "proof" and then attack me personally.

That's what you do.

[PavePusher]

19. You didn't back it up with proof.

And you continue to avoid doing so.

That is the act of an unschooled child, no matter how old one is.

Good luck with that in the real world.

[petronius]

30. Attack? No, Mike, that was constructive criticism and advice

Call it an attack if you want - it's natural to get a bit defensive when one's shortcomings are pointed out - but you'll be a more effective commenter if you learn the difference, and start paying attention to what people are saying to you...

[Kennah]

6. 1 million or less carrying in 1986? 6 million carrying today. Where's the proliferation of violence?

[ileus]

8. In the antis mind?

[Kennah]

42. A mind is a terrible thing. And it must be stopped.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[spin]

25. 6 million is a low estimate ...

Today there are close to 850,000 valid concealed weapons permits issued by the state of Florida. That's just one of 49 states that allow concealed carry. I estimate at least 10 million.

[Kennah]

41. 49 that allow it, but only 41 Right To Carry states

8 are May Issue states, and very restrictive May Issue states.

California
Delaware
Hawaii
Maryland
Massachusetts
New Jersey
New York
Rhode Island

Also, Florida is on the higher side of CCW concentration, and just under 750K licenses in the hands of residents. They issue a lot to non-residents. There are a lot of RTC states with much lower rates of carry than Florida.

[Remmah2]

7. I hate to say it.

Happy to unrec. :donut:

[ileus]

9. So where does it say this guy has his CHP???

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Atypical Liberal]

11. Why guess? Just look at the data.

What occurred to me is that claiming concealed carry makes us safer is wrong. Given the minimal training required and the total lack of screening for mental issues, wouldn't concealed carry among civilians increase these types of incidents? In a difficult moment one of these angry guys wouldn't even have to go out to the car for the gun.

Why guess or speculate? Why not just look at the data for CCW permit holders, like this data from Texas, covering a decade:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=374332

Not all states capture this data, but the ones that do consistently show that CCW permit holders are hardly ever involved in crime. Any crime, not just firearm-related crime.

Aren't gun onwners subject to the same stresses as other folks? We've shown in the Famous 10% Theory that many gun owners are severely afflicted with these ordinary problems. The proliferation of concealed carry is going to do more harm than good, we're already seeing it.

The idea that "any gun owner is a potential murderer waiting to snap" is a myth. The fact of the matter is, there is a huge, huge predictor for firearm homicide - prior criminal history. Upwards of 80% of people who commit murder with a firearm have an extensive criminal history, including, on average, 4 felonies. Such people are usually already prohibited from owning firearms.

http://www.cardozolawreview.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=138:kates201086&catid=20:firearmsinc&Itemid=24

Instead of worrying about gun owners in general, we should pay more attention to keeping firearms out of the hands of criminals.

[mikeb302000]

45. Not all states capture the data

is a pretty funny throw-away remark. Wouldn't that make the data unreliable?

The states that do "capture the data," don't capture all of it, again invalidating it.

Why are you guys so afraid of using your heads. Comparing 1986 to today doesn't work. Even comparing last year to this year doesn't work. The reason, because there are many factors involved besides gun availability or number of CCW guys.

A good comparison would be what it's like now with the 10 million CCW guys and what it would be like with none. But, unfortunately for that you need to use your head. Another angle on that comparison would be the problems cause by 10 million CCW guys and the good they do. Even with that comparison reliable data is hard to come by, so you've got to use your head.

[Atypical Liberal]

12. When you say "we"...

We often hear of a work confrontation in which somebody goes out to the parking lot to retrieve a gun and comes back to commit murder.

When you say "we", are you talking about confrontations in the USA or in Italy, where you live?

Are such work confrontations common in Italy?

[mikeb302000]

46. I'm as American as you are

when I say "here" I mean the U.S. When I say "we" I mean we Americans of the U.S of A.

[ileus]

13. So where is the CC connection?

[Hangingon]

14. Unrec

[iverglas]

15. let 'em piss and moan

The fact is that in other times and places, Joe and Bob would've duked it out.

Now / in the US, "Joe left and came back with a gun" ... .

Check that interactive map of the five boroughs, and see how many of the firearms homicides are classified as "dispute".



omission corrected

[PavePusher]

18. When was that, 1316? n/t

[iverglas]

32. 2011 in any comparable country

assuming that Joe and Bob are not criminal bikers or street gang members or part of some other criminalized segment of the population.

[PavePusher]

39. Right. No-one ever used weapons to settle personal differences...

before the advent of guns.

Seriously.

:eyes:

[iverglas]

43. I guess someone said that ... oh right, you did

No one ever used guns before the advent of guns, anyhow.

I doubt anyone used bow and arrow in those situations, either. Or chucked many spears. In interpersonal disputes.

Any weapons used

(a) involved direct personal contact
and
(b) resulted in much lower lethality than firearms

But hell, I'm sure you knew all that.

[PavePusher]

49. I'm sure you have stats to back up claim (b).

And I guess, in reference to claim (a) that you are O.K. with "might makes right"...

Lime Jello for the win.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco

[ileus]

22. Hate to admit it, but you may be right...

I remember the first time I ever seen dad take a gun away from a man (1977?)...it was the first and maybe only time I've seen a gun pulled on someone. Dad went into this small bar to speak to a co-worker, a few minutes later dad and another man come out and he was running his mouth to my father. about 1 minute into the argument the guy pulled a gun on my father. Dad in one motion took his pistol punched him in the nose and handed the pistol to the mans wife and said "You'd better take this before he hurts himself." he got into the truck and we left. LOL

[iverglas]

27. now ...

... are you sure that wasn't an episode of The Rifleman you watched when you were a nipper?


That's the dry Cdn humour. ;) But I'll quote you next time somebody says not to bring a fist to a gunfight!

[ileus]

28. it was fun to see as a boy...

I remember it like yesterday....

We were in that green crappy old 1970 pickup dad had for what seemed like forever...The building wasn't destroyed until about 20 or 25 years back. I rode my bike by it everyday of the summer. Always the same 2 or 3 cars in the parking lot. An old white 2 door Nova, a crappy old black F100 Ford, and a VW bug. Funny thing was it was dozed to the ground and they build a Church of Christ in it's place.

Those were the days....no better time to grow up in America than the 70's and 80's. If only we could get that America back.

Oh and I don't think I've ever watched the riflemen...Though I did see several episodes of Gunsmoke and The Big Valley (reruns) as a kid.

[mikeb302000]

47. well, ilius, your dad sounds like a real

macho man. That's a lot to live up to. That can make a guy feel really insecure and inadequate. Is that what happened to you? Is that why you like guns so much?

[PavePusher]

38. Wrong place. n/t

[PavePusher]

17. Unrecc'd due to blatent and fundamental dishonesty.

You have equated legal concealed carriers to criminals, and not for the first time. Yet, as always, you fail to demonstrate the link you assert.

As my math teachers used to say, "Show your work".

[mikeb302000]

48. you're a bully

you know damn well I didn't equate anything with anything. The fast that some CCW permit holders commit crimes is indisputable. The only argument is how many.

[PavePusher]

50. The word you are trying to dodge is "insinuation".

I give you a gift: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CD0QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.merriam-webster.com%2F&rct=j&q=dictionary&ei=fYtKTtLzLInRiALmjLGNBw&usg=AFQjCNFPdw_KGdWon6eR8om7FMn75gj_dQ

Use it well and wisely.

[dmallind]

21. Why ask a question about a future hypothetical when we have present data?

CCW licenses have increased exponentially in the last 15 years. The vast majority of states are shall issue. Violent crime, including the use of guns, has fallen. What you think you hear more of is irrelevant, and confirmation bias to boot. Guns up. CHL up. Crime down - data trump anecdotes every time.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[azureblue]

26. a better question is

what is the NRA's published stance on this, and what fixes does the NRA offer?

[SteveM]

37. Well, you've named your next job. Please post findings. nt

[SteveM]

34. "This happens a lot." You said it, you prove it. Another dupe. nt

[rl6214]

44. Blog spam BS

Nothing to see here.