Bought my first weapon in almost 35 years.

[era veteran]

Between getting broken into by the denizens of the pill/heroin dealer that live down the street and late night closing of restaurant I felt the need. Ms era even agreed. I thought when I cleared my weapons the last time in the Army I was through with them. My house is at the end of a dead end and we are worrying of home invasion, no near neighbors. It pisses me off that it came to this but I could not stand the idea of someone attacking us and I am not ready to fist fight at 57 years old. A young 57 but too old for that high school crap.
I posted a request for information and advice here 5 or 6 months back and appreciate the advice I got and I ended up buying a Ruger SP 101 .357. I really appreciate the advice folks.

Now if you can tell me how to get the police to work on busting these worthless pukes it would be great. Getting way out of hand, one of my neighbors counted 17 individuals walking around, mostly men yesterday. When I close up late at night I may see three or four young men walking around with cell phones at midnight. This was a great neighborhood until all this and we fear they are now operating out of three or four different houses. I am going to the Newspaper next, this little house is all we have and these bastards are not going to ruin it without a fight. I just don't want to go to prison. Thanks for listening to the rant, we are good people and are apprehensive of the future. Fucking Goddamn heroin and pills have been around me since being in the Army, my first 3 roommates in Germany were shooting skag in the open. This is evil soul sucking shit.

[Uben]

1. Gotta good watch dog?

A good protective dog like a German shepherd would be a good deterrent. They bark at a pin drop, and with a little training can be a big help if confronted with hoodlums. I bet your local shelter has one waiting for a home! I have two, brothers, and I don't even lock my doors.

[BobbyBoring]

2. Second that!

We just rescued a 4 YO male Shepherd. He was K 9 trained at some point and is VERY intimidating.

[era veteran]

7. We lost our Shepherd a year ago or so, great dog

We have a rescue beagle mix but I think we need another big dog.

[Uben]

27. The .357 will take anything down

I've got a S&W and a Dan Wesson .357. I inherited them, and to be honest, I haven't fired one in 20 yrs. But the Dan Wesson is loaded and locked in my safe. Since I live rurally, a shotgun is really all I need, and I inherited a couple of those, too!

The dogs won't let anything come around the house without continuous barking, but that's not such a bad thing.

[RSillsbee]

28. It's a good idea to shot and clean your guns periodically

it would really suck to find out it doesn't work at thwe worst possible moment

[Uben]

30. I clean them once a year....

I've got 19 different guns, the rifles and shotguns are in a dust free locked cabinet and everything else is locked in a safe, so it's really just a matter of lubrication. I don't intend to shoot any of them any time soon. Most of them I have never fired.

[RSillsbee]

34. Do you intend to bet your life on a gun you haven't proved? NT

[Uben]

38. I've got a shotgun and two dogs.....

....if they get past those before I can grab another gun and load it, then they might have a fightin chance. I have fired the Dan Wesson, it was just 20 yrs ago. Since it is a revolver, in almost new condition, as long as the hammer pulls back and it has a firing pin, yeah....I trust it.
I have an 1887 Colt .44-40 six-shooter that I have never fired. That one I would not trust. I know the ammo I have for it is at least 30 yrs old itself.

[MrDiaz]

6. What if said criminal

Has a gun a shoots the the dog?

[GreenStormCloud]

10. Then shoot the criminal. N/T

[rl6214]

17. I've got an 11yo shepherd and a two yo shepherd

the 2yo is loyal beyond belief and will defend me with her life I believe.

[iverglas]

3. civil law remedies

I cleared the dealers/pimps out of a unit down the block in two weeks flat. It might not always work so quickly and easily, and it would help if your neighbours aren't the jellyfish mine were and would join in.

Presumably the undesirables do not own the property. The absentee owner is permitting their activities, and the owner's use of their property is thus interfering with what's called your "peaceful enjoyment" of your property. An action therefore lies in nuisance.

I wrote to the owner of the property here, after ... it was a year if not two, what took me so long? of disturbance. Same idea: the sidewalk and roadway was just constantly occupied by them, there were comings and goings at all hours, the "music" invaded our homes ... and of course everybody knew they were the local pimps and dealers, and our block had lots of kids at the time.

I listed their behaviours in detail, from the after-midnight noisefests to spitting in my driveway as they walked by. I said that he had to put a stop to it. I pointed out that he had grounds for eviction (in my jurisdiction -- mileage could vary, but my jurisdiction has very strong tenant protection) because they were interfering in his rental residential business -- by exposing him to a nuisance action.

In that case, the law requires that he give them two weeks to cease and desist, and if after that they continued, he could serve final notice of termination and apply for eviction if they didn't leave. I said I would be happy to keep a record of their behaviour and testify in support of such an application.

I also instructed him not to disclose my name or the content of my letter to the tenants, and said I would be looking to him if I suffered any retaliation. Then I waited.

That was mid-July. A few days later, one of them passed me on the street and said something along the lines of "so we're leaving". That's nice, I said. He said something else ... as if somehow they'd won the battle by leaving. Odd, but whatever, I figured. On the last weekend of the month, various of their stuff was out at the curb for garbage pickup. I saw a regular looking couple contemplating a quite nice headboard/footboard set ... I'm a scrounger myself, but the idea of them taking that particular bit of furniture ... I just said ... I know where that's been, and I wouldn't ... so they didn't. ;)

Anyhow. Things could have gone worse. The owner could have ignored me altogether, leaving me having to actually sue in nuisance if I wanted to solve the problem, and exposed to more and possibly worse harassment in the meantime. But as it turned out they went 100% perfectly and I kicked myself for waiting so long while I tried to get the neighbours to take some responsibility too.

So there's a possible actual solution to the actual problem, which, you'll forgive me for mentioning, buying a gun isn't.

A local lawyer should be able to advise you on whether it applies to your situation and how to proceed if so. (A letter to the owner from a lawyer not naming you at all might be an idea, for instance.) Good luck!

Oh, btw -- when they first moved in, before realizing we were dealing with hard core, I'd taken the "neighbour" approach -- after the first night of partying, I went down to where the main tenant was sitting on his stoop and handed him a spade, and said I needed help digging up my neighbour's lilac tree to transplant to my garden, and this was now his job in compensation for the disturbance. He did it, I gave him lemonade, we chatted, I asked what colour flowers he wanted for the planter I then put on his porch just like I did for other neighobours on the street (another neighbour took on the main task of sweeping garbage on the block, etc. -- the old no-graffiti theory) ... . He had his chance! ;)


edit -- of course, if one of the occupants does own the property, it short-circuits the process -- you can just (threaten to) go after them directly for nuisance. Again, see what a lawyer thinks.

[GreenStormCloud]

11. Good advice. He should definately try any civil remedies that are available.

Save the gun for a last resort defense of home.

[era veteran]

15. I did buy a video camera today, thanks.

Side arm is a last resort. I am at the end of a road with no neighbors. The police, narcotics, have not bothered to call me back.

[iverglas]

33. I understand

I hope the suggestions I offered might be useful, and that you will talk to a lawyer.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

19. Some excellent suggestions... :)

ETA: rule #26. "Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation."

[oneshooter]

4. Practice, both you and your wife.

Go to a local range and practice 50-100rds a month. 38 specials are cheap. Both you and your wife also need to practice dry fire, one fireing and the other watching for flinch.
The idea is that HAVING the firearm and being able to hit your target are not the same thing. Buy a box of magnum rds and shoot a cylinder full at the middle of each range session.

The 101 is a fine revolver, but only as good as the person behind it.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Hoyt]

5. The dogs and legal route seem much better than practicing to shoot them. But, for you, guns are

the only answer, apparently.

[X_Digger]

8. Just a tip, Hoyt.. this isn't the home security forum..

If you draw erroneous conclusions about what protective measures a poster employs based solely on their participation in or position on the guns issue-- in the guns forum-- then that's really only due to your own assumption.

The use of a gun may be part of a whole host of home security measures, but that does not mean that it's anyone's 'only answer'.

All squirrels are mammals. Not all mammals are squirrels.

[GreenStormCloud]

12. Did you miss where he said that he had a dog and was considering another?

The gun is a last resort for if everything else fails.

[Hoyt]

25. You two -- I don't see a post by Oneshooter on this thread where he speaks of dogs.

In fact, anyone who calls themselves "shooter" on a political forum seems to be obsessed with shooting -- as his posts indicate.

[oneshooter]

26. And you seem to be obsessed, by reason of your name, on gambling. n/t

[slackmaster]

9. The only thing you can do with regard to the police is to thoroughly document every transgression

Make notes, and take pictures if you can do so discretely.

Heroin addiction sucks. It re-programs the brain of an otherwise normal human into an amoral, psychopathic, drug-seeking machine.

[era veteran]

14. We bought a video camera today as well

I would never be Cavalier with the weapon. One of the worst things I can think of is shooting someone but if I had to I would. It pisses me off that I called Police this am, emailed my council person and have not heard from either one.

[gravity556]

52. But the anti-gun/pro-criminal safety folks

have said repeatedly that the police will keep me safe!

Take that revolver to the range twice a month, bring your wife. Each of you run a box of rounds through it (2 boxes is better, but ammo can be expensive) every time you go. Get a set of lasergrips for your gun, and if it has a rail (not familiar with Ruger revolvers), get a good gun mounted light. A couple of speed loaders or speed strips are a must have as well. Take them with you to the range and learn how to use them. Not just basic familiarization, but you should know how to load and unload and reload both quickly and quickly in the dark. In addition to the laser grips and flashlight, look into tritium sights-that way if the batteries in your flashlight and laser both die, you can still see your sights.

[PavePusher]

13. You can get surveillance cameras pretty cheap these days:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&xhr=t&q=security+cameras&cp=11&qe=c2VjdXJpdHkgY2E&qesig=9HjlEKtZbBDfQ1YGOnBxQg&pkc=AFgZ2tk7v4k1qz0diILe7MaakhlY8k8PsfSThPHAxcFvPkNgkkbQ1IEU_pLHW8AjN9Idxs9jrFCYh8gmj234eVqmCzSUjkhjKg&pf=p&sclient=psy&site=&source=hp&aq=0&aqi=g5&aql=&oq=security+ca&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=e05176bd72dc6e7a&biw=1280&bih=869

If you can get their antics recorded, turn a copy of the recordings over to the police. If they take no action after a week or three, take them to the nearest local news station.

ETA: Holy Cow, I actually agree with Iverglas on the initial approach. Do I hear the thunder of the apocalypse in the distance? Or just the Arizona Monsoon? :toast:

[oneshooter]

18. If it is a Monsoon, send some rain to Texas. n/t

[friendly_iconoclast]

20. The Last Trump is, indeed, at hand- because I also agree with her initial approach

I can only add: Document, document, document. And practice, practice, practice!

[rl6214]

16. I've managed restaurants for 24 years and leaving at

3 or 4am I know exactly what you are talking about. One restaurant I ran had a strip club behind it with many unsavory characters standing around at all times of the night. I know exactly what you are talking about. Be safe and be carefull with your firearm. Take a safety/training course and get your concealed carry licence if available in your area.

[era veteran]

22. Oh yes I have other places, bars and such that attract

the college crowd and the townies that prey on them. I was a tanker in the Army and carried a 1911 four years and I was raised around lots of weapons. My Dad was a lifer. Will be getting my CC this year.
Every night before I leave I remember Stafford Clay Nelson, a fine young man I worked with in the '70's stabbed to death hiding in a walk in. He did write the killers name with 1000 Island dressing on a box and he is still in prison.
I double check everything at closing and check out the parking lot well. We are a 100 to a 150 police officers short. I like to point that out to the teabaggers that complain of crime. You get what you pay for.

[socialindependocrat]

21. Post alarm system stickers and signs

I you post these signs they usually don't want to mess with aqn alarm.

You can get "fake" signs and plant them on your perimiter and in your store windows.

they have cameras that have an led that blinks and scans from side to side.
This will also stop intruders from looking for the real surveilance system.

Harbor Freight has some equipment in their catalog, too.

Watch the .357 going thru walls.
Make sure yuou know where your family is sequestered in case of a home entry.

[1776Forever]

23. Found a bunch on ebay too. Good idea - We just had a string of problems near us in our quiet little

town. I don't think you can be too careful. It is getting rough out there.

[socialindependocrat]

24. Overjoyed to be of help!!!! n/t

[Starboard Tack]

29. Sounds like you're taking a pretty radical step. Not prudent.

I think you should consider some of the more sensible options. You don't mention being threatened by anyone, just guys walking around with cellphones. If they are armed and dangerous, as you imply, are you prepared to go down in a blaze of glory? Or are you going to shoot them all. The dog idea sounds sensible for walking home. Finding out who owns the properties you think they are operating out of, as Iverglas suggests and pursuing that option makes a lot of sense. For your own sake and that of MS. era, don't listen to the testosterone laden cowboys. It will not end well. You have sane options available. Don't make a bad situation worse.

[benEzra]

35. I think your perception of gun ownership as "radical" rather than mundane

is telling. There are *very* few places in the United States where the lawful ownership of a revolver could objectively be considered "radical".

Gun ownership isn't for everyone, but it's certainly mainstream in this country, and always has been.

[Starboard Tack]

37. I didn't mention gun ownership

The OP is considering toting a handgun outside his home and business. Sorry, that is not mainstream behavior. A 12 gauge in each place would more than suffice and an upgrade to the beagle for the journey between the two.

[friendly_iconoclast]

39. Being as you're not providing security for him, and the police aren't required to...

...his choice is perfectly reasonable, as long as he is cognizant of the relevant laws and practices regularly.

[Starboard Tack]

40. Your basis for "reasonable" is being cognizant with relevant laws and practicing with a gun

Being as you're neither providing him security, nor life insurance, nor medical insurance, nor legal aid, your advice is outrageously irresponsible. You are encouraging someone, who is seriously pissed off with a bunch of assholes, to start toting a handgun. Is that what your upper middle class upbringing tells you is right. You don't carry, because you live in a nice part of town, but those who don't share your privilege, should tote guns to resolve problems. Don't you see how elitist and condescending your position is?

[era veteran]

41. I will take all advice with a grain of salt but

I would only use a weapon as a last resort. I have been trained in the military and have had several occasions to pull a weapon on a soldier that was doing something screwed up. I made good decisions then. One thing everyone should realize that it usually will cost you some money and a whole lot of hassle even if you are shooting a person with clear bad intent. Taking lives is not my goal. Saving our lives would be.

[Starboard Tack]

45. OK - Good luck and be safe. You sound like a thoughtful person.

[friendly_iconoclast]

48. Your attempt at telesociology is on a par with your knowledge of self-defense.

My upbringing was in no way upper middle class, and I was the victim of an attempted mugging not more than fifty feet from where I'm
writing this post.

Also, I do not carry a handgun (but am not unarmed, BTW) as I really can't afford: a reliable one+ licensing costs+ range time + the time to actually get to a range. So you should be happy with me: I'm a person who can legally get a handgun, but chooses not to.

Instead, your nose is out of joint because I supported someone else that made a decision that you didn't like.
Hard cheese for you, eh?

Once again, you've proved that wowsers not only believe they know what is best for others, they also believe they know what
motivates them...

[Starboard Tack]

49. My sincerest apology. I confused you with another member.

Shame on me. Respect.

[ileus]

31. congrats on such a fine SD firearm...you'll love it., it will provide years of trouble free service.

[spin]

36. I had one for years ...

But it was an early model of the Ruger SP101 with a "short cylinder" that was marked "125 GR BULLET ONLY."

Under the snappy recoil of a .357 Magnum round the bullets would start to pull out of the cases and by the fifth round of even 125 grain rounds an extended bullet COULD lock the weapon up. I used to put a tighter crimp on .357 mag factory loads before I carried them for self defense. I finally decided to use only 38 +P rounds for self defense in the weapon as the cases are shorter.

When S&W finally produced an Airweight revolver that could handle 38 +P ammo, I bought one as it was much lighter than the SP 101 and was designed for pocket carry. It is still my primary carry weapon and has had thousands of rounds fired through it.

I eventually bought a S&W Model 60 .357 magnum revolver. I personally prefer the Smith & Wesson revolvers over the Ruger revolvers as they are much easy to field strip and clean and, in general, they have a smoother trigger pull.

Before I retired and left Tampa, I sold the SP101 to a co-worker with a CCW. I told him to only carry .38 +P ammo for self defense. He shot the weapon on the range and was favorably impressed with its accuracy. He intended to give it to his wife who also had a carry permit.

Overall, I felt the Ruger SP101 was a fine revolver and VERY sturdy. It is built like a "brick shithouse." It will indeed provide years and years of trouble free service. I probably put well over 10,000 rounds of .38 special and .357 magnum through mine before I sold it and it was as accurate and reliable as the day I bought it and it was a used firearm when I purchased it.

[era veteran]

42. Thanks, I have not fired it yet.

I shoot a 1911 two handed, it will be interesting with the smaller weapon.

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[one-eyed fat man]

32. The "Rock"

It was a rotten place in the early 70's. Couldn't "chapter" or jail the drunks, druggies and dirtbags fast enough! It took almost ten years but the Army got a whole lot more professional.

When a neighborhood turns to shit it's always the older folks whose houses are paid for that get trapped. When the decline first starts, they are reluctant to move. Once the slide has fully developed, they can't, as the house has lost so much value they can't sell it for what they gave for it 30 years ago. Being a homeowner in the midst of a bunch of rental property is an unenviable position.

You can bet the predators who lurk about know the patrol schedule in your neighborhood better than the watch commander.

[era veteran]

43. The Rock made me a better man

Do you recall the parade field that was a killing field a couple of times, Some Ranger walking Brigade guard at the PX area murdered one payday night carrying an unloaded M16, it was a no live round post. I walked it a couple of months after that and I had an illegal 20 round magazine in my pocket. After 39 months on the Rock I can handle this shit but I had to have a roscoe. We are going to try and run them out legally but am going to have to embarrass the Police I guess. We are 100 to 150 officers short.
I thought by 1975 the Army was getting better.
If you get a moment check this out.

Ayers Kaserne 2005
http://vimeo.com/4695047

[one-eyed fat man]

44. Thanks for the link

Our tours overlapped some. I remember President Ford climbing aboard my tank in 1975. You may remember he gave the whole Brigade the next day off.



You might recall this place, the ammo pad on Range 42. You can spot the mess hall in the background by the right front fender. I had one of the last straight M60's left in the Division. That tank shot "Distinguished" every trip we made to Grafenwöhr. Turned it in for an M60A1 RISE with the add on stabilization system. That was about the time your battalion was getting M60A2's.

[era veteran]

46. I almost used Range 42 as a screen name

I drank beer with the President. I was in S-3 then and was motor pool team chief. I had beautiful 577 that was on the display.
Were you there when SMAG, US Army came earlier that Spring? April 24 1975 we were in the NCO Club having drinks when they put those last images on AFN. Lots of raw emotion in that room.
I went to A Co as soon as we got the A 2's.


A2's on street by Bravo, my first Company.

[one-eyed fat man]

47. Small world

Since you were also on the display, did you see where the President got the beer he had when he got to your track. Ford got off my tank and climbed up on the Leopard from the 44th Panzer. The loader, being a good German, on a German tank, asked him if he'd like a beer. The President said, "Sure." The Sercret Service about had a conniption when the loader popped inside the turret and handed the President a can of Tücker.

2010 was Grafenwöhr's 100 year as a military training area. Now it's the Joint Multinational Training Command, 7th JTMC. We never would have imagined Russian soldiers training there.

http://www.army.mil/article/41273/

[era veteran]

50. I had to pull Courtesy Patrol in 1976 @ the Pineview

EM/NCO Club. The 3rd AD had it put off limits to all of us but I caught the Post Duty. I sat in a little room drinking beer and eating, the Mgr told me just to call MP's if there was trouble. With soldiers from all over at off cycle gunnery. Reading that link about Graf reminded me how many soldiers could be there at once. Lots of fights but not as violent the first time I was there in '73.
In '76 someone stole another guys 1911, We were already in the field and everyone in the Division stayed there while we walked police call all over looking for it. My fatigues were rotting on me by the time the thief left it to be found. We found all kinds of ordinance, MG barrels, and military flotsam from several Armies. 1976 was also the hottest summer on record in Europe ever to that date. We started lots of fires and then ceased fire and played fireman, hard work.

We were then in a beer tent by C Co 3/33. He came in and stood with us by the door and had a beer. I drank Licher at the time and I don't remember the brand that day. I went to Butzbach that evening and took the train down to Frankfurt and saw a Salvador Dali exhibition. What a day
The first and last annual 1st Brigade picnic. Every stone on the Rock was painted yellow or blue. LOL
TheRussian at Graf is hard to picture. I saw the sons of bitches twice; In East Berlin in a museum, Russians, E Germans, NVA, and other assorted communist soldiers ( Berlin adventure training) and close to Bad Hersfeld summer '73 during Nixxon's DEFCON III. That was a screwed up couple of days.
Thanks for sharing your Rock stories, brings back nice memories.

[ileus]

51. Just remember the socially acceptable number of times to shoot someone is 3.