Vermont Man Busted Dealing Guns and Pot

[mikeb302000]

http://www.reformer.com/ci_18730298?source=most_viewed">The Brattleboro Reformer reports on how the lax gun laws and attitudes in Vermont aided one man in violating federal law.

A 25-year-old Brattleboro man was charged in a federal court in Connecticut Thursday with one count of dealing in firearms without a license, three counts of interstate transfer of firearms and four counts of possession of marijuana with intent to distribute.

Kyle Farace was arrested in Brattleboro on Aug. 9.

"This involved a number of controlled purchases where an undercover agent bought marijuana and firearms," said Jonathan Freimann, Assistant United States Attorney for the District of Connecticut.

Freimann said Farace conducted what are called "straw purchases" of firearms, in which he bought the guns in his name with the intent of selling them to a third person.

Vermont is always touted as the perfect gun paradise, very little crime and very few gun restrictions. What goes unseen is the spillover effect all this "freedom" has on the neighboring states. Guns bought in Vermont end up in Hartford, Boston and New York City. And all the while, gun-rights advocates will hold up the Green Mountain State as proof that guns are good and gun control is bad.

What's your opinion? Do you think Vermont's comparatively low crime rate proves anything? You know, the same folks who say it does, also say Chicago and D.C. prove that gun control doesn't work. To me it seems both arguments are false.

Until we have a comprehensive gun-control program administered federally and one which contains a number of restrictions not yet attempted, we'll never know. The mish-mash of easily circumvented laws we have now are not nearly sufficient to bring the gun violence down to a respectable level.

What's respectable, well http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap-crime-murders-firearms-per-capita">just look at the other developed countries of the world and see the laughing stock the U.S. has become in the area of unnecessary gun deaths.

http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/">(cross posted at Mikeb302000)

What do you think? Please leave a comment.

[PoliticAverse]

1. You know we havce a "comprehensive pot-control program administered federally", right ? n/t

[Kennah]

2. This is refreshingly honest

You admit you want draconian gun control laws the likes of which we've never seen in the U.S.?

You seem to be implying that South Africa, Columbia, Thailand, Zimbabwe, Mexico, Belarus, and Costa Rica have gun control laws that are similarly lax to those in the U.S.?

[gejohnston]

3. man you walked into this one

How about simply homicide rates
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
Russia's murder by firearm is almost nonexistent, but their murder rate is nearly three times ours.

If the spill over is an issue, why is crime still lower in Vermont? Why is Vermont's murder rate lower than Japan's?

Top of your list is South Africa. South Africa is a wealthy country. How do you define developed? Is it relevant or simply a way to filter out those countries that make your cause look bad?

South Africa's gun laws?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_South_Africa

Jamaica has a murder rate 12 times higher than ours
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Jamaica

[mikeb302000]

11. if you don't know how to define

developed, you should look it up on google. Learn something.

[AtheistCrusader]

21. Russia not developed?

Do tell.

[iverglas]

27. okay

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

Very high human development (developed countries)

1 Norway 0.938
2 Australia 0.937
3 New Zealand 0.907
4 United States 0.902
5 Ireland 0.895
6 Liechtenstein 0.891
7 Netherlands 0.890
8 Canada 0.888
9 Sweden 0.885
10 Germany 0.885 ...

<pretty tight race in the top 10 there
-- these 2010 rankings seem to be estimates; the US was #9 in 2008 and Canada was #4, for example>

High human development (developing countries)

67 Russia 0.719

Medium human development (developing countries)

113 South Africa 0.597

Oops. "Developing countries". And 24th on that list, at that.

Russia is what you want to compare yourself to?

Kewl. I'll compare Canada to South Africa, if you like. After all, it was once a member of the Commonwealth ...

[gejohnston]

41. I was looking to see if you did and

if you could answer this question: Is it relevant or simply a way to filter out those countries that make your cause look bad? If it is relevant, why?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

4. There are no laws unique to Vermont that enabled this moreso than any other state.

The guy bought 1 rifle and 2 pistols from a LISCENSED GUN SHOP... meaning he went through a background check. He could have aquired guns in that fashion if he lived in just about ANY state using that method. Vermont laws didn't "aid him" in any particular way that another state wouldn't have. Your conclusion, as usual, is bogus. Not to mention that he was also busted with about a half pound of pot. Obviously this was a criminal drug dealer doing criminal things... which is not comparable to your typical firearms owner and it would be disengenious to try and paint him like a typical "gun rights advocate" who enjoys Vermont freedoms.

Also, why the cross post to some POS ill-informed low-traffic blog when the reputable ORIGINAL link from the news source is also provided directly upthread?? Unrec for useless blog-flogging.

[TheCowsCameHome]

5. Good post.

You've irritated 'em again.

[gejohnston]

10. more like amused

he is kind of like your Billo, but without the golden microphone.

[PavePusher]

24. Yeah, we get upset when our party allows this kind of stupid to be aired in public.

We don't need Republicans to attack us, we only have to show the idiocy of our gun-controller-wannabe's.

[SteveM]

34. Ants in your pants? You speak with experience.

You may wish to reconsider your "analysis:" "Irritation" may be seen by the mods as disruption; want to rain on Mike's parade?

[one-eyed fat man]

6. You have been challenged before

Do you really believe the Mafioso who sells you your weed would have any scruples against selling you a gun? Are you really that stupid? If not, why not?

In case, you miss the connection, dealing drugs is a high risk, high profit game engaged in by those who are at a minimum, scofflaws. Do you think they have any compunction against providing whatever illegal substance or commodity will make them a profit?

Or, why the fuck are you so stupendously amazed that criminals commit crimes?

[mikeb302000]

12. why do you want to make it so easy for criminals

to get guns? Is it so you can be as little inconvenienced as possible?

[gejohnston]

15. a criminal can get a gun

in Italy is just as easy, the only difference is how it gets to him.

[iverglas]

25. weirdness, eh?

a criminal can get a gun
in Italy is just as easy, the only difference is how it gets to him.

All the Mafiosi and all in Italy, and yet look:

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/145794/20110514/gun-crime-highest-among-age-between-10-to-19-years-old.htm

The firearm homicide rate in the USA compared to other developed nations is serious: Firearm homicide rates per 100,000 people are as below.

* USA - 4.2

* Italy - 0.81

* Switzerland - 0.5

* Canada - 0.4

* Finland - 0.35

* Australia - 0.24

I wonder whether ordinary non-Mafia-type people and common or garden variety criminals just don't have as many guns in Italy? Or maybe they just don't like killing people with all their guns.

I'm not finding "gun crime" figures for Italy; maybe you can ... find something to back up that assertion of yours.

[gejohnston]

55. there is a logical fallacy for that

Now can you show evidence that one has anything to do with the other?

[iverglas]

56. there was a question in it

I'm not the one making claims about Italy.

[gejohnston]

60. as mike says

common sense. If you can get heroin or pot, you can get a gun. If you have the technology of a 1940s bicycle repair shop, you can make your own open bolt sub machine guns. The important thing is look at the over all crime rate regardless of weapon, which will be lower than ours.

[iverglas]

68. "If you can get heroin or pot, you can get a gun."

And I can get a vial of smallpox virus! And a 10-carat diamond!

Because if you want it, you can get it ...



The important thing is look at the over all crime rate regardless of weapon, which will be lower than ours.

Er ... eh?

[gejohnston]

72. or anything else for that matter.

those two items would be a lot harder to get. Which is lower than ours regardless of weapon. In other words, knife homicides is lower than ours. Same with baseball bat homicides. Did not have enough coffee at the time.

[ileus]

26. guns kill people don't you know...

[beevul]

16. What a filthy mischaracterization.

"why do you want to make it so easy for criminals"

Why do you want to make it so hard for the law abiding to get guns, and characterize it as those you seek to restrict wanting to make it "so easy" to get guns?

[iverglas]

19. 100% accurate:

"why do you want to make it so easy for criminals"

Why do the "gun rights" crowd love criminals so much?

[rl6214]

29. Not 100% accurate, more like

Why do YOU want to make it so difficult for people to defend themselves from criminals. Why do you defend the criminals so much? Why do the "anti-gun zealots" love criminals so much?

[iverglas]

44. 100% accurate

Why do gun militants want to arm criminals?

Is it just the warm feelings and tremendous sympathy they feel for criminals, who deserve to be able to protect themselves as they ply their trade? (I mean surely they aren't saying that criminals don't have some inherent inalienable big super-duper right to defend themselves.)

Is it in the hope that the underclass will kill itself off?

There are a couple of theories. Obviously, I can offer others.

[rl6214]

45. Why do anti-gun zealots want to disarm the innocent and protect the criminal?

That's what you are doing. Your words are fitting for what you do:

"Is it just the warm feelings and tremendous sympathy they feel for criminals, who deserve to be able to protect themselves as they ply their trade? (I mean surely they aren't saying that criminals don't have some inherent inalienable big super-duper right to defend themselves.)"

Coddle the criminals you do.

[iverglas]

47. why do you want to make sure criminals have all the guns their hearts desire?

Aren't you ever going to answer?

It's a very sincere question. I would really like to understand this phenomenon. I've been trying for quite some time now, with just no success.

[RSillsbee]

58. Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

Aren't you ever going to answer?

It's a very sincere question. I would really like to understand this phenomenon. I've been trying for quite some time now, with just no success.

[gejohnston]

59. we don't

so why answer a question based on a false premise?

[beevul]

66. Hardly.

"why do you want to make it so easy for criminals"

Why do you beat your dog?


The fact of the matter, is that there are other ways to prevent criminals from getting guns, than burdening those who arent a problem in the first place.

That people who hold beliefs such as those espoused daily here, where guns are concerned, are not INTERESTED in those other ways, betrays their stated intent and shines a light very brightly on their true intentions.

You know, we know it, and everyone with so much as two brain cells to rub together knows it.


And that my dear iverglas, is why where guns are concerned we "gun militants" win, and our opponents lose.

Ta.

[iverglas]

67. "there are other ways to prevent criminals from getting guns"

Kill them if they try to steal your stuff, and lock them up for life if you miss.

That's about the sum total, from what I gather.

I mean, it's not like you seem to have mentioned any.


typo fixed

[beevul]

71. I'm too busy...

I'm too busy working at keeping the dishonest prohibitionests in "reasonable" clothing, from banning/severely restricting something by and large on the basis that they simply do not like or understand it.

Maybe you haven't realized it yet, but its time that you and they do:

WE - the so called gun militants - don't NEED you. We will get what we want - without you.

You on the other hand, NEED us. You wont get what you want - without us.

So why don't YOU and the prohibitionists in "reasonable" clothing start coming up with other ways, eh?

But hey, feel free to come back back with more criticisms that you yourself, your arguments, and the anti-gun movement can not withstand.


It will amuse me.

[friendly_iconoclast]

73. I've never seen it put so baldly, but it's true: THEY need US- and we don't need them.

The prohibitionists can damn well modify their demands to suit us.

Fuck the gun control bitter-enders- they've harmed the nation and the Democratic Party too much as it is with their "my way or the highway." I'm sure the NRA's legal counsel is grateful for those fat attorney's fees that they've generated, and God knows the
GOP has won plenty of elections thanks to them. You'd think they'd have learned from Ann Richards, but nooo. Better to have the correct line on guns than be in power....

[iverglas]

77. the knives are out? too bad they're so blunt

Fuck the gun control bitter-enders- they've harmed the nation and the Democratic Party too much as it is with their "my way or the highway."

You people really are an entertainment.

One issues a great big heavy duty ultimatum backed by a threat, and the other accuses its adversaries of playing "my way or the highway".

You should take it on the road.

[iverglas]

75. hey, and they say

that men with guns aren't trying to intimidate anybody.

:rofl:

Sweetheart, I do not need you. Trust me on that. And I sure as hell don't want you!

Your kind votes for the farthest right-wing party Canada has ever known, and they'd do it even if Stephen Harper proposed to put all their guns in a museum and paint them pink.

I've GOT what I want, for the most part, and I'm just going to have to sit out the next four years of putrid right-wing government until we can start getting the other bits I want. While I wait for some more of the population south of the border to get a clue and some decency, so that some of the harms we can do nothing about ourselves can be mitigated. That'll take some time, but I'm not so silly as to think the end of history is upon us.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

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[one-eyed fat man]

17. How hard a time do you have buying your dope?

Do the laws in Italy present any problem to you? Do you care? Or do you prefer the hashish from North Africa?

When you can explain how hard it is for you to buy a gun from your drug dealer, how many background checks, etc., he makes you undergo, get back with us.

In case you are really obtuse, the gun runner you are complaining about was also a drug dealer. Which came first, dealing dope and expanding into guns or dealing guns and expanding into dope? To the criminal do you REALLY believe it makes a difference? Did Capone, Luciano, et al expand from booze into gambling and prostitution or were the already illegal gambling and prostitution business enhanced by the morons who passed the Volstead Act and made booze an opportunity an established criminal enterprise could exploit?

If he is like most dope dealers, yours included, he would likely trade weed for a gun at about about half market value, that is a $300 gun might net you $150 bucks worth of dope. Since he now has a gun that paper trails to you, if at all, he can peddle it, no questions asked, for $600 bucks to the next schlub millionaire Marxist wants to be in the Red Brigades.

[iverglas]

23. oh, my goodness, educate yourself

In case you are really obtuse, the gun runner you are complaining about was also a drug dealer. Which came first, dealing dope and expanding into guns or dealing guns and expanding into dope? To the criminal do you REALLY believe it makes a difference?

The criminal was trafficking pot from where it is easy to get to where it is hard to get, and guns from where they are easy to get to where they are hard to get.

Where is pot easy to get?

Canada.

Where are guns hard to get?

Various places in the US make it slightly harder than Vermont, but most importantly: Canada.

What do you suppose the pot was paid for with?

Money from gun trafficking in the US, possibly. Also cocaine that is in the US, big demand for that from dealers in Canada too.

But what do else do pot producers in Canada really want that they can't get in Canada?

GUNS.

Sheesh.

If you actually want to cut down on pot dealing in the US, make it harder to get guns.

Sheesh.

On the other hand, if you want to cut down on guns being used in Canada to facilitate drug dealing and kill people -- and you know, civilized and decent people do want to do that, no matter where they live -- you make it harder to get guns in the US, at least and especially the ones that drug dealers tend to want.

So ... Which came first, dealing dope and expanding into guns or dealing guns and expanding into dope?

They are MUTUALLY DEPENDENT, ffs. You have to have something to exchange for the guns you want or the pot you want. When a gun dealer and a drug dealer meet, it kind of simplifies matters if they just exchange the goods rather than trade cash, eh?

This gun dealer more than obviously traded his guns for the pot that he then resold for a profit -- as the pot dealers at the other end traded their pot for the guns that they then resold for a profit.

If the person in Canada wanted to get guns, they had to have the pot to trade. If the person in the US wanted to get pot, they had to have the guns to trade. I doubt that either set up in the pot growing or gun buying business on spec.


Since he now has a gun that paper trails to you, if at all, he can peddle it, no questions asked, for $600 bucks to the next schlub millionaire Marxist wants to be in the Red Brigades.

Actually (and I have no clue what you are on about), it will generally get peddled to somebody else in the domestic organized crime / drug network, who will maybe use it to kill a bystander or victim of mistaken identity, as they do in Canada.

[one-eyed fat man]

42. Red Brigades

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades

Left-wing terrorists. Ideological kin to Red Army Faction, Bader-Meinhof, Weatherman, etc

Red Brigades primary support allegedly came from the Czechoslovak StB and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).Soviet and Czechoslovak small arms and explosives would have come from the Middle East via heroin traffickers along well established smuggling routes. Logistic support and training were allegedly carried out directly by the Czechoslovak StB both in Prague and at remote PLO training camps in North Africa and Syria.

According to the Mitrokhin Archives, the Italian Communist Party lodged several complaints with the Soviet ambassador in Rome regarding Czechoslovak support of the Red Brigades, but the Soviets were either unwilling or unable to stop the StB. This was one of several contributing factors in ending the covert relationship that the Italian Communist Party had with the KGB culminating with a total break in 1979.

Some of the Red Brigades were disaffected youth and college students from wealthy families pretending to be the down-trodden proletariats. . One claimed that he used to sail the family sailboat between Lebanon and Italy during summers, ferrying Soviet weapons for a fee from the PLO to Sardinia where the weapons were distributed to "other organizations in Europe."


And the gun-runner you are going on about was trading between the "provinces" of Vermont and Connecticut? No place did it say he was trading BC bud for Vermont guns or taking guns to Canada. Your criminals seem every bit as enterprising and immune to borders, laws and regulations and regulation as criminals have been since Caesar fed them to the lions.

[iverglas]

46. my goodness, have you looked at a calendar lately?

.........

And the gun-runner you are going on about was trading between the "provinces" of Vermont and Connecticut? No place did it say he was trading BC bud for Vermont guns or taking guns to Canada.

Do they grow BC bud in Quebec? Maybe you know what BC stands for. Hint: it is a province.

I suppose maybe they grow pot in Vermont. Probably lousy stuff. My bet is his pot was Canadian, and he was no stranger to running guns to Canada. But maybe he just paid cash for his pot from somebody else who got it over the border. Whatever.


Your criminals seem every bit as enterprising and immune to borders, laws and regulations and regulation as criminals have been since Caesar fed them to the lions.

Yeah, that's why the streets of my neighbourhood are simply flooded with semi-auto handguns from the United States. Because it's so easy for criminals to get them here. And I guess it's why pot is so damned cheap in the US these days. Back in the day, I remember going in on about $200 for a key. Sound about right?

Not. To all of the above.

[ileus]

7. As a citizen of the US what do you recommend?

[mikeb302000]

13. you know what I recommend.

I've said it over and over.

http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2011/02/how-to-cut-down-on-gun-violence.html">Here's one of 'em.

[ileus]

14. I recommend changing the law from within your state...I'll do what I can in Virginia

[rl6214]

30. Here's one of what?

More blog spamming? Why try to hide your blog behind a generalized link?

[SteveM]

37. Yeah, seems that way. Multiple Dupes by blog-spamming. nt

[iverglas]

48. are you peple really unable to do that mouse-hover thing?

You know, you put your cursor over the link and you look at the bottom of your monitor to see what the url is. I've been doing it for years. If you've never figured it out, there you go, glad to be of service. I'd never click on a link before checking where it went, myself.

Meanwhile, well, I think you know the rest. It has to do with what link I've clicked on.

[SteveM]

36. Yes, "good starting point." You want prohibition, right? nt

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mikeb302000]

64. Not ALL legal gun owners

only the unfit ones. Wouldn't you want the same thing?

[iverglas]

79. you know two things

We know what you recommend-disarming legal gun owners

This is a lie, and our only imaginable motive for telling it is to hold another member of this website up to hatred and contempt.

Fucking blog spam.

This is a disruption and a personal attack.

Were you planning to cut your visit short?

[Remmah2]

8. Seems his violation of the law was clear.

The only think lax is the lax of common sense.

[Atypical Liberal]

9. Why doesn't Vermont have much crime?

Vermont is always touted as the perfect gun paradise, very little crime and very few gun restrictions. What goes unseen is the spillover effect all this "freedom" has on the neighboring states. Guns bought in Vermont end up in Hartford, Boston and New York City. And all the while, gun-rights advocates will hold up the Green Mountain State as proof that guns are good and gun control is bad.

What's your opinion? Do you think Vermont's comparatively low crime rate proves anything? You know, the same folks who say it does, also say Chicago and D.C. prove that gun control doesn't work. To me it seems both arguments are false.

If Vermont guns cause crime, why don't they cause much crime in Vermont itself?

The simple fact is that guns don't cause anything. Vermont has low crime because it has few criminals living there. Places like Chicago and D.C. have lots of criminals living there, and consequently there is lots of crime there.

Places like Chicago and D.C. have social issues at the root of their crime problems. Guns are simply the means that many crimes are committed with.

People should address the root social issues and stop focusing on the tools.

[friendly_iconoclast]

40. For that matter, why don't New Hampshire's lax gun laws cause crime in NH?

AFAIK, they differ from Vermont's only in that you are required to get a (shall-issue) permit to carry a concealed handgun in public.
Other than that, they're pretty much the same- no prior approval from the local constabulary required, no pointless bans on scary-looking rifles and pistols and large magazines.

So why does Manchester, New Hampshire have a lower violent crime and murder rate than two very similar cities (Fall River and
New Bedford) in nearby Massachusetts? I discussed this conundrum here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=290313#291371

Well then, let's compare three cities of similar size located near each other
Manchester, New Hampshire, Fall River and New Bedford, Massachusetts.

All have populations of +/- 100,000. All are within a two-hour drive (with no border controls) so any illegal trafficking of weapons or anything else would be quite easy, and all three are (economically depressed) remnants of the early to mid-Industrial Age.

One has quite lax gun laws (Manchester). The other two have fairly restrictive ones (FR and NB).

Which one has the lowest crime and murder rate?

More in-depth discussion here, with crime statistics from the FBI:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=360440


The OP fails, as usual...

[iverglas]

49. "If Vermont guns cause crime"

I've spotted your problem for you.

If you fix that and start over again somewhere that looks like a fact, or even an assertion of fact made by somebody that you want to address, you might be able to put together an intelligible string of words.



People should address the root social issues and stop focusing on the tools.

Here we go, one to bookmark.

There are root social causes?

Can you tell us what they are please?

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

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[iverglas]

78. you are disgusting

If I had to guess,
Posted by gravity556
I'd bet it's a mix of an aging population as well as extremely liberal gun laws. AZ's murder rate would be substantially lower, but between the illegals and coyotes and the cartels running dope constantly, it's kinda hard to pin down a source. And that's what folks like ivergas likes-a high murder rate with a politically incorrect cause.

A bigot and a liar all rolled up in one.

[iverglas]

18. "Guns bought in Vermont end up in Hartford, Boston and New York City"

Oh, and ...

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/ci-rc/reports-rapports/traf/index-eng.htm

Current Trends in Firearms Trafficking and Smuggling in Canada
November 23, 2007

... There continues to be significant cross-border firearms movement, particularly in British Columbia, Alberta, Ontario, Quebec, and the Atlantic region, where many of the seizures are concentrated.

* In British Columbia, a large number of firearms originate in the United States, with a high proportion coming from Washington State.
* In Alberta, most of these firearms come from Washington State, Idaho and California.
* In Ontario, the I-75 corridor is the main supply vein for illegal firearms from Florida, Georgia, Ohio and Michigan.
* In Quebec, the following states are key sources for illegal firearms: Vermont, New Hampshire and Maryland.
* There is an increasing number of illegal firearms reported being smuggled across the New Brunswick-Maine border, entering the Atlantic region.

Most firearms smuggled from the United States are high quality, semi-automatic handguns. Handguns are reportedly commonly traded for narcotics on the street: the price of the handgun correlates with the current street price for the specific narcotic. “High end” handguns are presently selling on the street for three times the retail price. Fully automatic rifles are also highly sought after firearms. Recent seizures have seen a marked increase in assault rifles and fully automatic submachine guns.

A recent thread here by another poster:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x443345

quoted this report:

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/6e47969cd5b5463aa09e0be13a651869/VT--Gun-Crackdown/

MONTPELIER, Vt. — A violent crime task force in Vermont is making inroads into firearms trafficking networks that link some of North America's biggest cities — and run through Vermont.

... James Mostyn, resident agent in charge of ATF's Burlington office, says the task force has so far identified three U.S.-to-Canada drugs-for-firearms trafficking organizations and that the addition of the Border Patrol has made both agencies more informed about the flow of illegal drugs and firearms.

Vermont, which has few gun laws of its own, has evolved as a marketplace where guns are cheap and plentiful, making it attractive for traffickers in New York, Boston and points south as well as Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa and points north.

(well, points east and west ...)

Vermont isn't alone, of course.

http://bangordailynews.com/2009/11/17/news/gun-trafficking-a-growing-issue-in-maine/

Gun trafficking a growing issue in Maine
Tuesday, Aug. 23, 2011

... While violent gun crime rates in Maine traditionally hover among the lowest in the nation, trafficking in guns — buying them in Maine and transporting them across the border where some end up used in crimes — appears to be a growing trend.

... Beyond Maine’s border

Illegal gun traffic in New England pales in comparison to states on the Mexican border, but Canadian officials have said that the drug trade in that country is fueling a demand for handguns. All guns in Canada must be registered and who may possess a handgun is rigorously controlled.

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police earlier this year told the Christian Science Monitor that of the 2,637 guns used in crimes in Canada, about 75 percent were traced to the United States. A major reason for that is cost. Guns are much less expensive in the United States than in Canada. A firearm that costs $150 in Maine could sell for $500 or more on the black market in Canada, Canadian officials said.

Nearly three years ago, police in New Brunswick recovered two handguns, several rifles, a pound of cocaine, a large amount of marijuana and $120,000 in cash. The recovered guns turned out to be just a few of the more than 60 firearms that Andrew Porter, 39, of St. Stephen, New Brunswick, smuggled between late 2005 and September 2007 from Maine into Canada.

One of those guns was used in June 2007 in the fatal shooting of a drug buyer by his dealer in an Ottawa motel, according to court documents. The shooter’s assistant died from a gunshot wound in the motel parking lot. The weapon was recovered and traced to a gun shop in Brewer, even though the serial number had been filed off.

Eventually, it was traced to Porter, who used a handful of male buyers in Maine to purchase more than 50 handguns from licensed firearms dealers from Calais to Brewer. Porter used the more rural Milltown crossing in Calais, according to one of his accomplices, and hid the guns under his seat. Because he crossed the border frequently, Porter was familiar to American and Canadian border patrol agents.

I would surmise that there is little doubt that the pot in issue in the present case came from Canada, and there were guns going in the other direction.

Ah, fair trade.

[rl6214]

31. Maybe if 0-canada would make guns legal they would eliminate

the smuggling problem. I see that as the answer to drug smuggling all the time on this forum. Just make it legal and the smuggling will stop.

[SteveM]

38. Watch out, now, rl6214. That makes sense. To some, here. nt

[iverglas]

50. do it for human smuggling too

Just make slavery legal, and then you won't have to import slaves.

Pretty simple, eh?


Funny thing is, Canada doesn't want handguns in the hands of criminals.

We're odd that way, I know. Gun militants in the US want nothing more than to arm every criminal they run across.

But hey, thanks for the chuckle:

Maybe if 0-canada would make guns legal

given that firearms possession is legal in Canada ... just not for criminals, and not the kind the criminals want. Git it? It isn't actually law-abiding gun coveters doing the trafficking and buying the products.

But what the hell. Just let the Bacon brothers and their brothers in arms get all the guns they want inside Canada, and that will solve this whole problem. ... But wait, I thought the problem was criminals with guns ... Oh, you've gone and got all intellectual on me again, haven't you ...

I'll bet that zero was supposed to be some kind of insult ...

[gejohnston]

43. Only a $150 for a pistol in Maine?

Damn, I live in the wrong state. I paid that much for a Ruger .22 30 years ago.
The assault rifles and sub-machine guns, NFA must have a gun show in Maine exemption I did not know about.

[gravity556]

62. Maybe Canada should build a wall....

[Glassunion]

20. So... What you are saying is a drug dealer was also selling firearms illegally?

NO! You must be mistaken. This is unpossible!

[ileus]

22. those guns making criminals of everyone...

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Remmah2]

32. Proof that criminals will do things in spite of existing laws.

Maybe we need laws to make it illegal to break laws.

[SteveM]

39. Prohibition. It's what's for dinner. nt

[SteveM]

33. Pot, huh? Your "comprehensive drug-control program?" Cut the spam...

And the usual straw sandwich of intellectual dishonesty. Who says:

"Vermont is always touted as the perfect gun paradise...?" Oh. It's Mike302.

"very little crime and very few gun restrictions" This is obvious, but does the OP have any data to support his "spillover effect?"
Note that the defendant is charged with dealing without an FF license -- a violation even in D.C.

"Until we have a comprehensive gun-control program administered federally and one which contains a number of restrictions not yet attempted, we'll never know."

Your comprehensive gun-control program would immediately run foul of the comprehensive Second Amendment. What makes you think "administered federally" will work any better than "comprehensive drug-control (actually prohibition)?" And since "we'll never know," seems to be the starting point in your rough-shod run-over of the Constitution, you evidently are willing to put into effect a "program" without even knowing what your aims are, or how to measure for success. Oh, and that "mish-mash of easily circumvented laws?" Given the history of other prohibitionist schemes, federal or otherwise, it seems to make little difference what's in the mash.

Please, quit trying to start up an alternative forum site with your personal blog.

[iverglas]

51. tricky dicky

Note that the defendant is charged with dealing without an FF license -- a violation even in D.C.

Note that he engaged in straw purchases, a violation even in Vermont.

Freimann said Farace conducted what are called "straw purchases" of firearms, in which he bought the guns in his name with the intent of selling them to a third person.

Are straw purchases and gun trafficking crimes in Vermont?

I guess they just don't show up in those "gun crime" numbers.


Please, quit trying to start up an alternative forum site with your personal blog.

Are you folks having any success with this little campaign? So far, I see the one who went whining to the owners got the brush-off. And I see one hell of a lot of deleted posts. Above the rules, are we?

[SteveM]

52. or Dick Trickle

I guess you tricked yourself, since your post makes no sense.

[gejohnston]

53. not it does not and

straw purchases and gun trafficking are federal crimes. It is not something local police are likely to ivestigate, but would report it to the ATF if they came acrossed it. Local cop finds counterfit money, they call the Secret Service. Our federal system is different than yours. Jusisdiction is a big deal here. A friend of mine drove his car in the side of a bridge on a country road. Most of the time spent on investigation was a Rock Springs city cop, Sweetwater County Deputy, and a Wyoming Highway Patrol officer trying to figure out who owned the bridge.

[iverglas]

54. hmm

A Rock Springs city cop, Sweetwater County Deputy, and a Wyoming Highway Patrol officer all arrive at a bridge at the same time ...

Has the makings of a good tale. Or a math problem. ;)

[gejohnston]

57. Can't remember who showed up first

first one radioed for the other two to figure out jurisdiction. My friend, an exchange student from Kuwait which has a unitary system, was a little puzzled at the situation.

[WAFS]

65. Guns from Vermont don't cause crime in New York.

Criminals in New York cause crime in New York, they just have to drive to Vermont to get their guns. If Vermont had strict gun laws then the criminals would have to drive somewhere else.

[iverglas]

69. Bubble gum doesn't cause snowstorms!

If every state in the US had effective firearms control, the criminals would have to drive to ... um ... Libya!

[friendly_iconoclast]

70. We'll have "effective firearms control" right after we get "effective illegal drug control".

IOW: never.

[WAFS]

74. In a perfect world, yes.

In the world in which we live guns exist, and they aren't going away. Marijuana, cocaine, heroin, etc. are all illegal, yet since the demand exists there will always be someone who will supply the demanded item. Same rule worked during the Prohibition era of the 1930s and it will work for guns.

The fact is that guns are here and they're not going anywhere, so we each have to choose how to live with that reality. I'm glad we live in a country where you and I can choose the way we best see fit to do so.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.