Woman's death at an Adams County gun shop ruled homicide (CCW permit holder)

[jpak]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/08/lower_paxton_township_womans_d.html

The shooting death of 61-year-old Beverly Klepic at an Adams County gun shop was a homicide, the York County coroner’s office ruled Tuesday.

Following the Lower Paxton Twp. woman’s autopsy, the coroner ruled Klepic was killed by a bullet that fired from a Kel-Tec 9mm pistol inside Miller’s Munitions.

<snip>

A man who identified himself on the phone Tuesday as Robert Klepic said he was with Klepic at the gun shop Sunday. State police have identified the man only as an “immediate male relative” and say he was handling his own weapon inside the store when it fired and hit Klepic.

Robert Klepic has a permit to carry a gun, according to the Dauphin County sheriff’s office.

<more>

[kestrel91316]

1. Oops, maybe he shouldn't have had a permit to carry, given his

failure to handle his gun safely.

[ileus]

2. Should have bought an M&P with a safety.

wonder if it was a PF9 or a P11?

[jpak]

3. It was an M&M with a SPF 45+

n/t

[iverglas]

7. "wonder if it was a PF9 or a P11?"

Me, I wonder whether she had kids, siblings, parents ...

[AtheistCrusader]

8. In the interest of firearms safety

many of us seek to ensure the only time a gun is fired, is when the gun is firmly in someones hand, and the trigger is intentionally pulled.

Speculation on how/why the weapon fired, if accidental, and how it might be prevented, does not seem to warrant your response.

[PavePusher]

12. Very little here warrants her responses....

but she seems determined to provide them, regardless.

It would be nice if a higher percentage of them were relevent to the conversations.

[ManiacJoe]

4. You gotta like the "well, duh!" headline.

:shrug:

[PavePusher]

5. Homocide=/=Murder.

He'd better have a good lawyer and some witnesses.

[iverglas]

6. homicide in this case is a coroner's "manner of death"

From the coroner’s point of view, this ruling has nothing to do with malice or intent. The definition of homicide is when someone dies at the hands of another person.

He'd better have a good lawyer/witnesses?

Well, he'd better not have done it intentionally. It seems unlikely that he did. However, there are other homicide charges besides murder, and if an investigation suggests negligence, a charge could be laid.

Won't show up in those crimes-by-CCW holder stats, if not. Still a death, still caused by someone with a permit to carry a concealed firearm, by that person's firearm.

Is that enough to have the permit revoked?

If there is no conviction, I suppose it isn't enough to make him ineligible to possess firearms. Weird, eh?

[AtheistCrusader]

9. Probably is enough to have the permit revoked.

If accidental, doesn't figure into the question of whether or not CPL holders are more or less law abiding, if it goes down the hole of 'excusable homicide'.

Also, the activity he was engaged in at the time, doesn't reflect upon CCW in any way.

Query; this happened at a range/shop. Canadians still have this sort of venue. What is your opinion on whether (shooting clubs, I assume is what you call them) ranges like this should exist?

[iverglas]

10. I think the regs refer to "gun club"

It's an "approved facility" or some such, anyhow. They are the only venues where people who have sports shooting permits and are thus allowed to own things like handguns are allowed to use them, or to transport them to and from.

We also have loads of "gun shops". I just love that little antique phrase: gunne shoppes.

"Shop" is the UK English for what we in NA call a "store". Do you know why we in Canada call it a store and not a shop? Because the blasted United Empire Loyalists brought their yankee ways with them and messed up a lot of stuff, that's why. Now you know! But how come gun shops are still gun shops ... even candy shops are candy stores these days, I imagine.

Anyway, should clubs/ranges they exist? Certainly. And they are where all sports shooters' restricted firearms (handguns, certain semi-auto rifles) should be stored at all times when not in use, with the appropriate security arrangements.

Gun shops, they're a little problematic. Security isn't quite what it should be all the time.

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=d1c2db1b-b719-4f56-b567-e4fd6ea5d3f5

Police are worried that 80 guns stolen in a brazen break-in at a heavily-secured gun shop in Vernon, B.C., may be used to fuel the drug trade.

Forty handguns and 40 rifles and shotguns were stolen from the Del Selin Gunsmith shop in the Interior city's downtown sometime between Saturday night and Tuesday, RCMP said Wednesday.

The thieves gained access to the two-storey shop through a skylight. Then they deactivated the alarm system by snipping wires and cut a hole through the ceiling of the shop.

... Investigators estimate more than $50,000 worth of weapons were stolen.

Not heavily secured enough, it seems. A skylight, ffs??

The local mayor was supremely unconcerned. It seems the drug trade activities would be happening somewhere else, so the locals weren't worried for their safety. How nice for them.

Overt party politics (edit: in municipal politics) is rare in Canada even in large cities. I'm betting His Honour is a Conservative. The riding is Conservative federally and "BC Liberal", which you can read as "corrupt", provincially. Ah yes:

http://www.vernongolfspectacular.com/Golf_Times.pdf
Team name: The BC Conservatives
Contact: Wayne McGrath


And of course there are always little problems like this entertaining tale:

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/13385--police-think-they-ve-solved-bizarre-gun-theft


Back to our sheep:

If accidental, doesn't figure into the question of whether or not CPL holders are more or less law abiding, if it goes down the hole of 'excusable homicide'.

An accidental homicide isn't "excusable", it's just accidental. No mens rea, no offence.

Surely more to the point is simply whether the individual is safe out -- or safe anywhere, with guns. I'd say one accidental homicide and you're done, myself. No permits, no guns, too bad, so sad. I mean, for pity's sake.

[AtheistCrusader]

11. Locale dependent.

In Washington State, we literally have a 'excusable homicide' statute.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.030

Handling a firearm in a gun shoppe would probably qualify, if it doesn't stray afoul of negligence. We will have to wait and see the outcome. (Not sure if that state has 'excusable homicide', but likely has some equivalent, whatever they call it)



I agree, one strike and you are out, on you know, accidentally killing someone with a firearm. It actually takes us 5 DUI's to get around to pinning someone with a simple Felony here.