Update on the U of I professor who killed a grad student

[MyrnaLoy]

"Friends of Bustamante confirmed Bustamante owned multiple handguns and was afflicted with multiple personality disorder, the affidavit states. In an interview with "close friend" Rowdy Hope, he said Bustamante’s personalities included one he called a "psychopathic killer" and another "the beast," the affidavit states.

In an interview with Emma Gregory, one of Benoit’s roommates, she told detectives Benoit had claimed Bustamante "had pointed a handgun at her on multiple occasions and put the gun in her mouth at one point." http://www.dnews.com/breaking-news/1793/

[MyrnaLoy]

1. looks like

he may have had a handgun for each personality. I wonder if he also had a concealed weapon permit? Doesn't matter much really, Idaho allows open carry.

[gejohnston]

4. and your point is what

a law is going to matter one way or another?
How many actually open carry? Few to none.

[oneshooter]

7. Have you turned in your CCL and weapons yet? What's taking you so long?

[MyrnaLoy]

10. I'll answer this one time

because it's such a stupid question. Why would I turn in my gun and permit? Does posting the truth mean I can't own a gun? Because I post stories about gun abuse that means I hate guns? How very shallow and gun protectionist of you. It really is only about the gun for you isn't it? Truth be damned.

Because someone recognizes that people misuse guns they can't own one? How stupid to even suggest that.

[rl6214]

23. Makes you wonder

did he obtain these weapons before or after he started exhibiting signs of having these disorders and why was he not arrested and put behind bars or at least institutionalized after putting the gun in the girls mouth? Looks like a serious breakdown in our mental heath institution.

[iverglas]

2. link to yesterday's discussion

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=452603&mesg_id=452713

I do find it difficult to understand why someone who knew that a person with his mental status had a firearm, let alone who had been threatened/abused with it, would not inform police.

The woman was a graduate student, not a pregnant unemployed mother of three ... but she might have been just as afraid of him as so many other women in the same situation are ... and had her fears proved sound.


edit ... then there were all his friends who thought, what, somebody who has (at least claims to have) a dissociative personality disorder that involves a violent persona and has a bunch of handguns is just, like, a fun guy to have at a party?

What's wrong with people???

[MyrnaLoy]

3. it's looking like

she filed a formal complaint in June. One story suggests multiple students had filed complaints. I love U of I but this is looking bad for them if they did not turn the reports of threatening behavior over to law enforcement.

[Atypical Liberal]

15. Ding!

Once again we have someone with a history of unstable, violent behavior and no one did anything about it.

[one-eyed fat man]

5. My question on lunatics

Why does it seem after some lunatic does some damn fool lunatic act, all these acquaintances come out of the woodwork telling everyone how they knew he was crazy all along?

What good is that knowledge if the authorities or mental health professionals are never informed? Look at Cho or Loughner, their families HAD to know, and either turned a blind eye or did nothing.

Having had the misfortune to have had the duty to respond to domestic violence cases, women and their fascination for abusers, are completely beyond my comprehension. It defies logical explanation. Your inference, an unemployed, pregnant mother "trapped" by a meal ticket doesn't hardly cover it. Explain what makes a bleeding woman, with her teeth on the floor, assault the authorities who have come to take away the son-of-a-bitch who just punched her in the mouth?

In so many of these murder suicide cases, the woman has been abused, often physically, but not always, for years. When she finally decides to leave, is often when the idiot goes on his "if I can't have you, no one will" rampage. This misanthrope didn't suddenly get up one morning and turn into a shithead, it had been a long time coming.

[iverglas]

6. I guess my best advice

would be to do some serious reading on the subject and have discussions with people whose work it is to research it and help the victims.

I would have hoped that was something that police would be doing, rather than just saying it's beyond comprehension.

I can't comprehend it for myself, either, i.e. I can't imagine putting or keeping myself in that kind of situation. That doesn't mean that I can't understand why it happens to other women.

But the fact is that many, many women are in that situation. So unless there's something genetic about women that pre-destines a largish number of them to want to be victims of violence, there have to be reasons.

One of the most impotant things to keep in mind is that, statistically, women are in most danger when they make the decision to leave. And the women know that. They know that if they say they are leaving, if they make preparations to leave, if they leave, they are in danger -- because the men tell them. If the woman leaves, he will kill her. He will kill her children, her family members, her pets -- he will make every threat that can be made in order to control her. Not all or even most men who make such threats carry them out, but no woman can be sure that leaving will secure her safety and the safety of others. This is one reason why women do not leave.

[TheMadMonk]

8. Sadly, I think there is "something" genetic in it.

For all our veneer of civilisation, we're still mostly "cavemen" on the inside.

Females "looking for protection/support" gravitate to the "best" male that will have them, or that they feel they "deserve". A pre-abused woman, does not look very high and consequently helps to perpetuate the cycle.

Such men KNOWING how "worthless" they are, (and yes they do know, even if they will never admit it) kill to hold onto some sense of worth, when what little worth they hold is threatened - It "prooves", them greater than the "threat".



Sorry for all the dit-dits, I'm trying to convey in a handful of words here, what is hard to make explicable with thousands.

[iverglas]

9. sadly, the voice of misogyny is still heard in the land

Forgive me, but that is such victim-blaming crap that it can't pass unremarked.

No woman (that's "woman", not "female") is a dependent dishrag by genetics, nor is any man "worthless".

True psychopaths might indeed be born, but your run of the mill narcissistic personality isn't.

Cripes, women "looking for protection/support" ... in a world full of violence against women and vastly unequal wages, maybe so. Wouldn't a world without those be nice ...

[Remmah2]

14. "True psychopaths might indeed be born, but your run of the mill narcissistic personality isn't."

Is that a confession?

[iverglas]

21. "Is that a confession?"

Is that ineffably dumb?

[Abin Sur]

19. Disagree. There are certainly men who are entirely worthless.

Mass murderers and child molesters come to mind.

The planet would be better off if they simply didn't exist, and I support efforts in that direction.

A relevant quote from Heinlein's "Starship Troopers", regarding the hanging of a young man who has killed a child:

Was he a juvenile criminal who merited pity even though you had to get rid of him? Or was he an adult delinquent who deserved nothing but contempt?
I didn't know, I would never know. The one thing I was sure of was that he would never again kill any little girls.

That suited me. I went to sleep.

[TheMadMonk]

20. It's not about blame. It's about what is.

Women do tend to pick partners "just like" their abusive fathers, or the abuser which preceded.

They do return to the abuse, because even an abusive partner is "better" than none at all.


Much of this self destructive behaviour has its roots in a now largely irrelevant tribal ancestry.

And while it's easy just to lable the abusers as worthless lowlives, the truth is their behaviour is in its own way equally involuntary. Their sense of worth is threatened and they lash out at the nearest/easiest target. And if there is sufficient threat/cognitive disonnance murder and/or suicide become real posibilities.

No I am not suggesting we should allow them to abuse with impunity. What I am saying, is that a society which leaves a man with only machismo to define himself, guarantees that the beatings will continue regardless.

[iverglas]

22. "Much of this self destructive behaviour has its roots"

in ABUSE.

And the inequalities that women suffer in modern-day society -- well, I suppose one could say they are rooted in a now largely irrelevant tribal ancestry" -- but it's the aspect of that ancestry that has been intentionally and purposefully perpetuated and maintained to the present day: PATRIARCHY. The subjugation of women, not some ploy by women to catch mates and get fed, housed and protected from marauding men and beasts.


What I am saying, is that a society which leaves a man with only machismo to define himself, guarantees that the beatings will continue regardless.

Not all wife beaters wear wife beaters. Yeesh. And some are in fact very successful narcissists. It's the failure evidenced by their partner's attempt to escape that they can't abide.


For chrissakes, does nobody seek enlightenment?

Women who try to leave abusers are AT RISK. And their children, family and pets are often at risk also. Some women choose to stay and make themselves the target to protect others.

Not all women. The phenomenon is extremely complicated.

But for chrissakes, it isn't a subject for speculation, it's well researched and easy to educate one's self about.

[TheMadMonk]

29. And the same cycle of abuse turns little boys into abusers.

But from the moment they hit a female they're just worthless cunts and all fault becomes theirs.

[iverglas]

31. too bizarre to believe, really

And the same cycle of abuse turns little boys into abusers.
Posted by TheMadMonk
But from the moment they hit a female they're just worthless cunts and all fault becomes theirs.

The bona fides of someone professing to be concerned about women's welfare who uses language like that to insult men ... well, let's just say one really wonders.

Perhaps you would like to consult the link up top.

[one-eyed fat man]

11. If I had a nickel

for every battered woman who "made bail" for the low-life son-of-bitch who beat her, I'd buy myself a gaff-rigged schooner and cruise the south Pacific. That kind of slavish devotion is incomprehensible to me. Many times, the only reason we were successfully able to convict an abuser is we actually witnessed the physical assault and battery freeing us from having to rely on her testimony.

They are as bad as any addict. They have to know it's a dead end and bound to kill them, but they not only refuse to give it up, they actively resist any intervention.

[iverglas]

12. yes, we know, it's incomprehensible to you

Now as I said, if you had made an effort to comprehend, it could have been better for all parties.

[one-eyed fat man]

13. All that

pyschobabble goes out the ivory tower window when you are grappling with some drunk, trying to keep someone from getting killed, while managing not to get killed yourself or having to shoot somebody.

It's payday night, quarter to midnight, and you already know three addresses you're going to get called to before the dispatcher picks up the radio...for the same old shit. No matter how many times you take them to the hospital, they keep going back to the one that beats them until you take them to the morgue.

I'll be seventy next year, and long since retired from that crap but very little has changed except now crystal meth or oxycodone are as likely as booze to be involved.

[Atypical Liberal]

16. It is easily comprehensible.

That kind of slavish devotion is incomprehensible to me. Many times, the only reason we were successfully able to convict an abuser is we actually witnessed the physical assault and battery freeing us from having to rely on her testimony.

My experience is that women crave security. It is likely a biological trait of the species. They seek a stable nesting ground with the means to support children.

Consequently, many women will stick with an abusive partner because they feel that the situation they are currently in is more stable than the unknown of being out on their own.

My grandmother tolerated my grandfather committing incest with two of their daughters. She only put her foot down to stop it when she was finally confronted by another family member. When confronted, she said, "Well what could I do? We depend on him to survive!" That's the answer in a nutshell.

[iverglas]

25. your experience

Life as viewed through the uninformed eye ... looking through the prism of patriarchy.

Indeed, women without social and economic resources are sometimes stuck. In the past, certainly, they were often literally dependent on men to survive. But that factor is not always present, and the situations remain complicated.

For quite a long time now in Canada, prosecution policy has been that where there is evidence of assault, charges are laid regardless of the wishes of either party, period. This is an excellent policy. The conditions of the man's release will include a bar on contact with the woman, regardless of the wishes of either party. If the woman wishes to stay in the home, the man will be excluded; otherwise, shelter and resources are available to the woman; that's not to say that adequate resources are always available, but a woman in crisis is not going to be left in the situation.

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/fv-vf/rep-rap/spous-conju.html

i) Charging Policies

a) Test: Charges should be laid where there are reasonable and probable grounds to believe that an offence has been committed, regardless of the wishes of the victim. ...

b) Investigation: Police officers who respond to spousal assault calls must conduct a complete investigation and collect all available evidence from all sources. ...

c) Peace bonds: Peace bonds or recognizance orders should not be used in place of charges where the evidence warrants charges.

d) Withdrawal/stay of Charges: Withdrawing or staying of charges falls within the purview of the Crown.

e) Release of an accused from custody by the officer in charge: Release of the abusive partner/accused should be made subject to appropriate conditions including, for example, non-communication orders, firearms prohibitions, and drug or alcohol prohibitions. Some jurisdictions require victim notification of the release of the accused as well as of any accompanying conditions.

f) Victims’ Services: Most jurisdictions instruct police to advise victims of available victims’ services, to direct them to such services or to do both.

g) Pre-charge Alternative Measures: ...

ii) Prosecution Policies

a) Test: A spousal abuse case should be prosecuted where there is a reasonable expectation or prospect of conviction (based on the evidence) and where it is in the public interest to prosecute.

b) Reluctant and recanting witnesses: In most jurisdictions, the decision to prosecute is made independently of the wishes of the victim. The fact that the victim is reluctant to co-operate with the prosecution of the accused should not be determinative of the decision to prosecute where independent evidence is available. Where a victim is reluctant or uncooperative, Crown counsel should assess the possibility of securing a conviction without the evidence of the victim (for example, by considering the availability of other evidence) and should consult with the victim with a view to seeking her support and co-operation in the prosecution. Compelling the victim to testify or seeking to find a victim in contempt for non-attendance is generally inappropriate and should only be considered in exceptional circumstances.

...Knowing the cyclical nature of spousal abuse, the question is often asked: why does she stay? These are some of the many reasons.

She is often economically dependent on her abusive partner and has nowhere to go (for example, she has no support of family or friends; or she has no knowledge of or is unwilling to seek out an emergency shelter).
She may stay and endure the violence for the sake of the children.
She may fear that disclosure of the violence may lead to child protection intervention and removal of her children.
She is emotionally isolated and feels completely unsupported by friends and family (often as a direct result of manipulative efforts of the abusive partner). She may even feel that she is to blame for the violence.
She still loves him and continues to hope that he will stop being abusive and will one day be the way he was when she fell in love with him.
She fears retaliation and fears an escalation in the level of violence and increased risk of harm to herself and to her children if she leaves him.
She is an immigrant or refugee woman, and she may not want to contact the authorities because she fears that they will deport him because of the violence; she cannot speak English or French; her experience does not identify the police as potential allies; she fears a racist response to her complaint, to her partner or both; or she fears being ostracized by her community.
She is a woman from a small or remote community and she may have limited or no access to supporting services and programs.
She may not believe that the police can or will do anything to help her (perhaps because she does not know that spousal abuse is against the law, or she thinks the incident is too “minor”, or she has already reported to the police and experienced disbelief or no action by police).

But, no matter what her reasons, she always wants the violence to stop.

[rrneck]

17. Here is a book you might wanna look it.

The Lucifer Effect.
http://www.lucifereffect.com/

In any relationship either between two people or between groups of people if there is a sufficient disparity of power not only will the person with the most power frequently come to abuse it the person with the least power may come to believe that they deserve the treatment that they get.

The students that assumed the role of prisoners in the stanford prison experiment could have quit any time they wanted. But they didn't. They accepted a power differential that was handed to them and allowed themselves to be abused as a result. If you tell anybody they deserve what they get long enough with sufficient isolation they will come to believe it. The abuse of any particular woman may begin long before she marries an abuser. Just as the children of abusers grow up to be abusers themselves I expect that victims may well do the same.

Institutionalized misogyny helps to create a context for the abuse of women. If they have less power of self determination in a society it seems to me that they will have less power of self determination in the conduct of their personal relationships.
Just as those with more power may bear the responsibility for it better than others some of those with less power may not be able to manage it so well.

Abusers tend to seek out people who are easy to abuse and I wouldn't be surprised if victims sought out abusers because they think that's what they're supposed to do.

[iverglas]

27. "Institutionalized misogyny helps to create a context for the abuse of women."

and the rest -- well done.

:applause:

[rl6214]

26. Families do not want to believe there is something wrong

"Why does it seem after some lunatic does some damn fool lunatic act, all these acquaintances come out of the woodwork telling everyone how they knew he was crazy all along?"

I had an employee kill himself with a handgun a few years ago. A few weeks prior to shooting himself he had taken a bunch of pills. I spoke with the young mans mother (he was 21) after the pill incident and she vehemently denied that he had tried to kill himself, that it was only an accident. I tried persuading her to get him some help and was told to mind my own damn business. Weeks later he was dead from a single gunshot to the head.

In this situation there was no evidence of any mental heath issue. He was old enough to buy the gun himself and in the short time between suicide attempts there would not have been time to get mental health info into the NICS system to stop him from buying the gun. Only the intervention of his family would have done anything and they refused to believe there was any problem with their "perfect" son.

[rl6214]

24. "What's wrong with people???"

That's the million dollar question.

That along with this one:

"I do find it difficult to understand why someone who knew that a person with his mental status had a firearm, let alone who had been threatened/abused with it, would not inform police."

A serious lapse in judgement to say the least and a breakdown in our mental health field.

[Spoonman]

18. In no way defending the shooter

"had pointed a handgun at her on multiple occasions and put the gun in her mouth at one point."

No excuse PERIOD for ever being around the bat shit crazy fucker after the first time he did it!

[iverglas]

28. "No excuse PERIOD ...

... for ever being around the bat shit crazy fucker after the first time he did it!

If only anyone ever needed to excuse themselves to you ...


As good a place as any to point it out:

http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=815038

... oh well, the U of Idaho one is gone now; that's from his TA days elsewhere. the U of Idaho one was just as glowing.

This guy was charming. Students loved him. And as a professor, he was involved sexually with a student (I don't know what the nature of earlier complaints against him were, and whether the complainant was the same person) -- a breach of ethics. I doubt very much that he had a dissociative personality disorder; he sounds like a classic narcissist. Manipulative, controlling, self-centred, and also often very, very charming. In this instance, a popular instructor bestowing his attentions on a much younger woman. A 22-year-old woman is seldom best equipped to deal with that. Until you've had your life ruined by one, you just don't know they exist.

[Doctor_J]

30. First comment says the victim was to blame

We have really surreal discussions in this country.

[iverglas]

32. if you have something to say to me (so I edit!)

-- mine being the first comment in the thread apart from the comment by the author of the OP -- perhaps you would say it to me, being careful to address what I actually said and not what you might want to say I said.



Sorry about the misunderstanding there -- I assumed a comment about this thread, not something somewhere else.

There were no comments at the news site when I read it. I assumed the subject was my statement that I found it hard to understand that a university graduate student, not dependant on the abuser economically, would not report that kind of behaviour with firearms to police -- when I did say quite a lot more in this thread.

Now I'll go off and read the sludge at the news site, I guess.

[petronius]

33. Back it up, Speed Racer. There's another obvious interpretation that I'm

sure the rest of us caught on to immediately. It's not all about you, you know, and in this case it's a real stretch to think it even could have been... :eyes:

(But in case you still don't get it, Doc means the first comment at the news site.)

[Doctor_J]

34. Sorry. I meant first comment after the article at dnews.com

8/24/2011 1:39 pm:

I dont understand why she took so many risks. If she knew the guy was so crazy/dangerous, why didnt she immediately go to the police instead of complaining to his employer, getting him fired and obviously leading to him being very angry? Also, if this friend knew he had multiple personality disorder, why didnt he inform the college that it was hiring a mentally unfit person? The college cant give a mental evaluation to every potential employee, but at least if someone has reason to suspect, they should feel some obligation. Maybe this could have been prevented with some common sense.Students, think before you act and dont get involved with your teachers no matter how much of a crush you have on them. So sad such a smart girl made such a stupid mistake of getting involved.

In fact this commenter has a point, but I think in many cases if a person reports a stalker to the authorities, the stalking gets worse

[iverglas]

35. gotcha, thanks

The comment you quoted is a sort of "natural" reaction on the part of someone who has never been in the situation: one doesn't understand.

Advice like "don't get involved with your teacher" is good advice indeed -- the problem is that teachers who get involved with students are generally the kind who can be very persuasive; a young woman who receives the attentions of a considerably older, very popular and widely admired professor just won't understand the wisdom of the advice.

Once one is caught in the situation, yes indeed, it can be damned if you do and damned if you don't, as far as trying to get out of it. That's what I was saying in other posts here. It seems she did try, and if anyone else, be it university or police, failed to respond appropriately, I hope they will be held to account.