I have no problem with guns as long as they're safely locked up...

[mvccd1000]

... with the ammunition locked away in a separate place so the kids are safe!

NOT MY VIEWS, but I think most of us here have read similar sentiments posted on these pages. The flaw in that logic comes in when your 19-year-old daughter's stalker from work decides to break in to your home in the middle of the night.

http://www.freep.com/article/20110904/NEWS03/110904019/Police-release-names-murder-suicide-Independence-Township

When she discovered Adair in her bedroom, he began choking her, police said. Kristen Hinze screamed and when her mother, Lou Ann Hinze, went to her room to check on her, she was shot, Sheriff’s Sgt. Wesley Beltz said today. Lou Ann Hinze later was pronounced dead at a hospital.

Kristen’s father, Charles Hinze, was shot in the shoulder and ran to the basement to get his shotgun, Beltz said. Before he got back upstairs, he heard another shot -- Adair turning the weapon on himself, Beltz said.

Sounds like Mr. Hinze was a responsible gun owner who kept his guns safely locked away out of reach of the children. As a result, he was unable to protect his family from a deranged pothead* who decided he couldn't live without 19-year-old Kristen.

(*The "pothead" assertion is pretty safe to make here, as the article states that the assailant met the victim at her place of employment - The Salvation Army - while he was serving community service for a marijuana conviction.)

[Hoyt]

1. The flaw in your logic is when some teenager grabs dad's guns lying around and takes them to a party

or school, or decides to shoot dad and mom, or picks up gun and it goes off striking baby jane next door, or whatever.

[rl6214]

8. a 19yo is not a kid

You keep making up all of these terrible senarios in the basement of your moms house and they never happen.

[Hoyt]

24. Both parents are long since gone, I live in "fantasy world" where trees do not harbor a mugger or

some other paranoid threat. In my fantasy world, I and 96% of the population do not find it necessary to strap a gun or two on before venturing outside. You should give it a try -- but you can't enter if you still think you need a gun strapped to your body.

[rl6214]

39. You and your "gun or two"

what a fantasy world you live in, afraid of the threat of legal gun owners that dosen't exist. Always talking about things "strapped to your body". I wonder what that could be?

So both of your parents are long gone, yet you still live in your moms basement. So sad.

[Hoyt]

42. Do you deny that some gunners carry two guns? I know it's irrational, but they do and some admit it.

Heck, we have folks right here looking for body armor to go with their guns.

[akvo]

11. As posted in the other gun topic you were on,

about 1 in 3 people in the US own a firearm, but there are less than 700 accidental firearm deaths. People do a very good job of storing and handling their firearms, and training their family members in safe operation.

I live in a very rural area, almost everyone has grown up with firearms and most men have been in the military. Firearms are a tool, people know how to use them, and people are not afraid of them. There are firearms everywhere. I'd guess that every person you see out here is either carrying a firearm or has one nearby. Look behind a bedroom door and you are likely to see a shotgun or rifle. There hasn'e been an accidental shooting here in over 50 years. And crime is almost non-existent.

Now, farm equipment, that's dangerous.

[Taitertots]

20. How many times does that happen a year? n/t

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gejohnston]

3. I think you have the

OP confused with someone else.

[rrneck]

4. Hell

even Hoyt's scratching his head over this one.

:rofl:

[petronius]

6. Just like a toter: blasting and shit all right in the back wihout looking and probably

both strapped-on things and special loads and all. ;)

(Actually, it caught me too...)

[rrneck]

7. Gah!

Must be sleepy time for rrneck. When you start to flinch its time to quit the range for the day.

:rofl:

[ileus]

15. and that thing that goes up...

[Hoyt]

23. What did I miss?

[rrneck]

25. A sudden attack of illiteracy on my part.

My dumb ass

:rofl:

[DissedByBush]

5. The middle road, quick-open safes

It takes about two seconds to open the one in my bedroom if you know the combo.

The guns in there are ready to panic-fire, just point and pull the trigger.

[DesertFlower]

9. we don't have kids. i keep a 38 in my nightstand.

[SteveM]

33. Same here. No mags, no safeties, no racking. Point and pull. nt

[iverglas]

48. and where do you keep it when you are not at home?

Just always curious ...



and still can't type a subject line w/o a typo

[GreenStormCloud]

50. When I am not at home my .38 is in my pocket.

.380 is in my waistband holster.

[iverglas]

51. and when I have a question for you

I'll be sure to let you know!

My question was not a general discussion point, it was a question to a particular poster.

Maybe I'll get an answer.

[era veteran]

10. Pothead?

Grow the fuck up.

Pot does not make you kill, and it wasn't in the link but I guess it made him sound crazier.

[mvccd1000]

17. Reading?

Did you read the same link I posted?

The two met at the Salvation Army -- where she worked and he was performing community service for a marijuana conviction -- Sheriff Michael Bouchard said. Adair became fixated on her, he said.

I didn't say pot made him kill; I said he was a deranged pothead. You sure can't say it helped his decision-making process in any way, though.

[SteveM]

34. I think it is sufficient to say he was deranged....

Most of us are not deranged.:smoke:

[geckosfeet]

12. In the state that I live in, the law says that if the firearm is under the direct

control of a person with a firearms license it does not have to be locked. There is a lot of latitude in that. Keep it by your bedside at night. Keep it on the table at dinner. Keep it nearby where ever you are. But if you leave unlocked firearms in your house and someone is injured then you are liable.

On edit: There is not 'safe' requirement. Firearms simply need to be in a locked container or be locked with an approved trigger lock.

[baldguy]

13. Those are exactly the kind of reasonable requirements that the NRA and the RW gun lobby campaign aga

But then, they often characterize Mass as totalitarian regime because of those rational laws.

[mvccd1000]

18. Reasonable and rational?

I'll bet Mr. Hinze wasn't thinking it was very reasonable or rational that his guns were locked up in another part of the house while his wife was being shot.

That's exactly the kind of stupid requirement that leaves people defenseless against a home invader with harmful intentions. (As in the OP.)

[geckosfeet]

22. If the firearm is under your direct control it does not have to be locked.

This presumes that you are licensed for the type of firearm in question.

How does that leave people defenseless?

[spin]

27. Explain "licensed for the type of firearm" ...

I don't understand that concept as I live in Florida. We do not have to be licensed to own a firearm. I do have a license to carry a concealed weapon, but I can basically carry any weapon that I can conceal including knifes.

[geckosfeet]

31. In the state where I live there are 4 classes of firearm license.

You can read about them here if you are really interested.
Massachusetts Gun Licensing Requirements: Complying with the Gun Control Act of 1998

For the purposes of this conversation, if you are not licensed to carry a pistol (class A or B) then you cannot buy a pistol nor can you own or shoot one unless you are under the direct supervision of some one who is licensed for the firearm.

Needless to say you would be in violation of the law if you possessed a firearm, locked, in a safe or otherwise if you were not licensed.

on edit: four classes if you count the restricted FID for mace and pepper spray

[spin]

32. Unbelievable. I lived in Massachusetts for a couple of years when I was in the service ...

I was stationed at Otis AFB on Cape Cod.

Massachusetts is a pretty state but I would never want to live there now that I have lived in Florida. The main reason is the ridiculous gun laws. Just before I retired, the company I was working for wanted to send me to Boston as a tech rep. I refused. When I was asked why, I pointed out the gun laws.

In Florida you can carry a loaded handgun in your car without a license as long as it is "securely encased". For example in your glove box. I knew a retired cop who carried a .45 automatic in a cigar box on the passenger's seat.

Concealed Carry Reciprocity

***snip***


QUESTION 6. I am planning a trip to Florida shortly. I do not have a permit from my home state nor do I want to obtain a Florida permit. However, I would still like to have a weapon with me for self-protection. What are my options?

Florida law does allow a citizen to transport a weapon in a private vehicle, even if that citizen DOES NOT HAVE a concealed weapon license. Note the following two key provisions in the law:

Section 790.25(5), which deals specifically with possession in a private conveyance states that "it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012." (Emphasis added.)

Section 790.001(17) defines the term "securely encased" to mean "in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access."
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/news/concealed_carry.html

I find it hard to believe that you have a license before you can carry pepper spray or mace.

[russ1943]

38. A DIFFERENCE IN PERSPECTIVE

Just a comment to demonstrate a difference in perspective. While you reference the gun laws as making Masachusetts less desireable to you, than Florida. I see the higher death rate by firearm, the higher homicide rate and the higher homicide by firearm rate in Florida, all contributing to making Massachusetts MORE appealing from a quality of life standpoint. (All else being equal, of course.)

Florida’s firearms death rate of 12.4 is higher than the national rate of 10.3 and 344% higher than Mass. 3.6
Florida’s homicide rate of 7.3 is higher than the national rate 6.09 and 252% higher than Mass. 2.9
Florida’s firearm homicide rate of 5.12 is higher than the national rate of 4.06 and 289% higher than Mass.’s 1.77
Latest stats available 2007
http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html
http://www.cdc.gov/NCHS/data/nvsr/nvsr58/nvsr58_19.pdf

[spin]

45. Your perspective is interesting but doesn't change my mind in the least ...

In fact I believe that if Florida had gun laws similar to those in Massachusetts, our crime, death and homicide rates would be even higher than they are today. There is a considerable difference in demographics between the two states.

The crime rate in Florida has been declining. Since 1987 Florida has had "shall issue" concealed carry and also has recently passed "stand your ground" castle doctrine and a "take your gun to work" law. It's hard to attribute the drop in crime to Florida's more lenient gun laws, however these laws did not lead to an increase in violent crime.

Florida's crime rate was its lowest in four decades in 2010
By Jamal Thalji, Times Staff Writer
In Print: Wednesday, April 27, 2011

Florida's crime rate sank to a four-decade low in 2010, Gov. Rick Scott announced Tuesday.

There were 4,105 crimes reported for every 100,000 residents in 2010, according to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. That's a drop of 7 percent from the year before and the lowest crime rate on record since 1971.emphasis added

In 2010 the total number of violent crimes (murders, assaults, robberies and forcible sex crimes) fell 10 percent while property crimes (burglaries and auto thefts) dipped 6 percent. The data are culled from 410 police agencies statewide.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/floridas-crime-rate-was-its-lowest-in-four-decades-in-2010/1166168

[geckosfeet]

47. I think the demographics point is an important one. Vermont has a fairly loose

firearm regulation laws by any standard. But they also have a very low crime rate and very little gun crime. They rank right up there in terms of education levels.

Great link link for demographics: US Census Bureau - The 2011 Statistical Abstract

Maryland and DC have a higher level of education (probably skewed due to all the lawyer types) but vastly higher crime rates. Income disparity etc. also comes into play.

[spin]

49. Thanks for the link ...

My daughter worked for the census and surprisingly she is once again going to work for them. She is going to classes for this years census at the end of this month.

[geckosfeet]

41. The pepper spray reg is pretty ridiculous. But, the thing that drives me crazy is

the MA list of approved/compliant firearms. This is a list of the firearms that are approved for sale in MA. Gun shops and dealers simply won't sell anything not on the list for fear of being fined into oblivion and getting they licenses yanked.

They state inspects and approves firearms with redundant safety systems, and you must comply with inspection regulations if you want to sell in the state. Many manufacturers won't even bother selling in the state because the regulations try to tell them how to engineer and design their firearm.

[RSillsbee]

36. I have one of those licenses here's a copy

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

[geckosfeet]

40. Yea. I have one of those too. They are free. All you have to do is be born.

I also have my class A. That's the one the troopers care about.

[Taitertots]

21. The NRA gives out free gun locks n/t

[SteveM]

35. Whatever the "requirements," childhood deaths via firearms are declining. nt

[DWC]

14. Immediate access / restricted access

I have worked on this problem for ~3 years. Some results of that effort can be seen at:

www.thepistolpad.com

Semper Fi,

[Bosso 63]

16. And this is why I have an ice ax next to my bed.

It won't stop bullets, but I have young kids, so my firearms are secured to the point of being useless in a break-in situation.
The way I see it, people live in different situations, and you can imagine all kinds of different scenarios i.e. fire, robbery, zombie apocalypse that could happen. People need to use some common sense and think about what tools they would need to best deal with it, because at the end of the day, it's your brain that will make the difference.

[ileus]

19. I have no problem with guns as long as they don't have firing pins....

or ammo....LOL

[spin]

28. My mother had a S&W LadySmith revolver in a drawer in her bedroom ...

Of course I found it and played with it when I was a child.

She had even left some ammo with it. I loaded it but I can't remember ever pulling the trigger while it was loaded.

It wouldn't have made any difference if I had. My father had removed the firing pin on the revolver.

My mother kept the revolver as she had used it one night to stop a man who rushed her from some bushes while she was walking home. She fired two shots over his head and he ran the other way.

[DWC]

43. Honest Question

Someone finding a gun "hidden" in a drawer is an all too common scenario. Please see my post #14. Do you think you would have been playing with that gun if it had been laying on my device?

Semper Fi,

[spin]

46. Nope. Actually your device looks like a good idea.. ..

I like the Pistol Pad Hide and the Pistol Pad Gun Box.

[Upton]

26. What's with the "deranged pothead" stuff?

In your link, nothing states he was under the influence of anything during this incident. Jumping to conclusions at the expense of pot smokers devalues your whole post..

[spin]

29. My daughter was 17 when she used a revolver to stop an intruder ...

who was breaking into our home in Tampa.

The big S&W Model 25-2 was her favorite revolver at the range and she kept it loaded in a pistol case under her bed.



At that time, which was many years ago, it was legal for her to have access to a firearm at 17. The laws in Florida changed several years later to prohibit minors under the age of 18 from possessing a firearm. Had the incident occurred after the law changed, I would have probably had my firearms locked up where she could not get to them and she would have probably been raped and perhaps killed that night.

[michreject]

30. Anybody remember the TV series "Kojak"?

It stared Telly Savalas.

The pilot was based on a true event. Two women shared an apartment in NYC. They bough a gun for safety. One hid the bullets and didn't tell the other one. the other woman hid the gun and didn't tell the roomie. Some thug broke in. Only one woman was home. She had the gun but no ammo. She got killed. The other woman came home and she got killed.

http://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2007/07/28/movies-based-on-true-stories-the-marcus-nelson-murders-the-career-girls-murders-82863/

As for me. I have a loaded gun in every room of the house. Also I have a Kahr P380 in my pocket at all times.

[Katya Mullethov]

37. We were laughing about him just this weekend

How he would jab a knife in a bag of cocaine or heroin and then taste it , yep the good stuff . lol .

[ileus]

44. Congrats on the kahr you ole toter you.