Why would you need to CC in a restaurant?

[oneshooter]

This has been asked before. Another answer.

Four Dead in Carson City Nevada IHOP Shooting Rampage
A gunman opened fire at a Carson City, Nev., IHOP restaurant, killing three people and wounding nine others before he ended the carnage by shooting himself, police said.
Preliminary information was that the the shooter was an ex-employee of the pancake house, but police now say that they can't confirm that about the shooter.

More here: http://abcnews.go.com/US/ihop-shooting-nevada-leaves-dead/story?id=14457713

He aparently used a rifle.

Does anybody remember Luby's in Texas?

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[madmax]

1. Thought you were referring to Closed Captioning

Doh.

[Hoyt]

2. Maybe if it wasn't OK to walk around with a gun in Nevada, this would not have happened.

In any event, sad for families of those killed.

Hope to hear how law-abiding a gun owner he was before this. Mark up another massacre with a rifle -- that gunners like to say doesn't happen often.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

5. Did you miss that it is a rifle?

You also seem to be unaware that in MOST states it is perfectly legal to walk around with a rifle.

You are even further unaware, apparently, that it does not take much to put a rifle in one's car, drive to a restaurant, grab said rifle, and walk into the restaurant. You can do it anywhere in the nation and kill a half-dozen people before the cops would even know - let alone do anything to stop it.

[Hoyt]

24. Sound like laws are too lax to me. In any event, our gunners here like to point out that "assault"

rifles are hardly ever used for killing innocent people. I think they use that as rationalization to keep buying weapons manufactured and marketed to appeal to gunners' baser instincts.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

27. Hardly ever

is still accurate. Less than 3%.

Law or not - this could have been easily done by anyone.

[oneshooter]

33. How do you know what type of rifle was used?

You assume much for one who knows so little of what he speaks of.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[We_Have_A_Problem]

34. The article doesn't mention the type...

...but as we all know, anti's do not have to actually be accurate in their accusations.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[oneshooter]

56. Don't own one. Not accurate enough for me. n/t

[Hoyt]

59. How accurate do you have to be at a few feet?

[ManiacJoe]

61. You don't do much rifle shooting, do you?

Most rifle shooters start at 100 yards and go out from there.

[oneshooter]

62. All my rifle shooting, exept rimfire, start at 200yds and go to 1000 yds. n/t

[Hoyt]

67. But not those into massacres -- which is what we are talking about here.

Those who support guns for self-defense would seldom -- if ever -- need to shoot anyone at more than say 15 feet. Now those into other nefarious things, might need to blast away at more distance than that.

If you are strictly a target shooter, and don't carry guns in public -- then god bless you. Most here are not strictly into target shooting . . . . . . . at least paper targets.

[rl6214]

73. Talking out your a** again and insulting every gun owner here

"Most here are not strictly into target shooting . . . . . . . at least paper targets."

Typical hoyt...

[ManiacJoe]

76. God has blessed me many times.

I do lots of target shooting. I carry my guns in public frequently because me and mine are worth defending.
:evilgrin:

[oneshooter]

77. I have a Texas CHL and carry daily. n/t

[rl6214]

72. Are you using a redot?

You know those things are accurate out to a few hundred yards, right?

You got that figured out yet hoyt?

[Hoyt]

58. Educated and correct "guess." AK-47 -- what did you expect?

[oneshooter]

64. Guess, yes. Educated, not from you. n/t

[Hoyt]

68. Fact is -- I was right. You guys wouldn't even acknowledge the possibility -- and were wrong.

[oneshooter]

79. so you agree on the second part? n/t

[oneshooter]

42. What law do you propose to make this not happen? n/t

[ileus]

49. AR's are down to the range to where everyone should be able to buy one now.

[oneshooter]

40. He seems to be unaware of most things. He should turn his firearms in to the Police. n/t

[Atypical Liberal]

22. The FBI likes to say it doesn't happen often, too.

Mark up another massacre with a rifle -- that gunners like to say doesn't happen often.

The FBI likes to say it doesn't happen often, too. As in, it happens half as much as people are killed with hands and feet - about 300 times a year.

[krispos42]

82. ***bzzzzt*** wrong, but thanks for playing

For your subject line to be accurate, or even relevant, the shooter would have had to be carrying a handgun WITHOUT planning on committing a crime with it. That somehow, during his day, circumstances occurred which his legal carry of a concealed handgun into him capable of spontaneous mass murder.

He wasn't carrying a handgun, and I highly doubt he left the house with the rifle because that's just his daily carry routine.

This was premeditated.

[DURHAM D]

3. Earlier today I was standing in line at a convenience store.

I watched a young man (18 or 19) drive up and get out of an old pickup. He was dressed all in black - not like a uniform but like a costume. He did not have on a badge or any patches. He had a pistol strapped to his waist. A long knife strapped to his leg and what looked like a taser on his belt.

I didn't say a word, I just put down what I was going to buy and hurried out to my car and drove away. I was surprised that the other 8 or 9 customers seemed not to notice.

Maybe I overreacted.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

7. Yeah - you over-reacted.

Especially if nobody else noticed.

If he was carrying a taser on his belt, he was very likely a security guard or a cop. Nobody else bothers with them as they are kinda a stupid weapon when it comes right down to it.

[DURHAM D]

9. Security guards usually have at least a patch.

He was too young to be a cop.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

14. If he was carrying a pistol

He is old enough to be a cop. Minimum age is 21. That he was carrying a taser would also imply cop or security guard. Private people just dont bother with them. They're kinda pricey for a weapon that is even harder to justify using than a gun.

He could have been on his way to work and hadn't put on the badge/etc yet.

[DURHAM D]

19. You are assuming it was a legal carry.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

20. Yeah i am.

Criminals don't typically carry in a holster, and they damn sure aren't going to spend the money on a taser.

Plus, I assume a legal action is legal unless otherwise proven, and open carry is legal in NC.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

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[gejohnston]

8. if he were wearing camo or hunter orange

I would guess he was a hunter getting gas. Maybe it was a costume and it was a toy pistol. Maybe he was a security guard at nearby nuclear power plant. Sounds like you overreacted.

[DURHAM D]

10. It was his eyes that bothered me.

He was not buying gas.

[PavePusher]

35. As I get older, kids (anyone under 30... 8>) ) look younger and younger.

www.handgunlaw.com

Then again, I still get carded for alcohol, even though I've been legal over 20 years... "well preserved" is what I call it.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

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[We_Have_A_Problem]

30. Fantasizing again Hoyt? n/t

[Katya Mullethov]

31. For me

It's all about the shoes .



Shoes tell a lot .

[-..__...]

53. Ding-Ding...

Love that show.

[Katya Mullethov]

75. You ever play

"Name the element" with the opening and exit credits ? We do .

[-..__...]

83. Nope... maybe 20-30 years ago I would have remembered that stuf...

nowadays, not so much.

Trivia: The chemical formula used in the backdrop of the opening credits is the formula for methamphetamine.

[Speck Tater]

4. The answer is clear. Armed guards on every corner and in every business.

"HI, MY NAME IS BRIAN AND I'LL BE YOUR WAITER TONIGHT,
AND THIS IS BRUJNAK, WHO'LL BE YOUR ARMED GUARD--ENJOY YOUR MEAL!

The city of Newark passed an ordinance that makes it mandatory for restaurants
to put armed guards on duty from 9 p.m. until closing."



http://johnmariani.com/archive/2011/110731/index.html#man_about_town (scroll down)

[SteveM]

16. Hooo-WE. That's expensive (the guard requirement). Does N.J. allow CCW?

[PavePusher]

36. Technically, yes.

But like Hawaii, in effect, NO.

[SteveM]

6. The Sawyer ABC report said he used an "automatic rifle." Doubt that...

But I also doubt the story will be corrected as it fits in with the usual narrative of these things.

If some kind of copycat trend starts, I will consider carrying concealed in restaurants. Up to now, a number of the places I frequent are regularly patronized by LEOs.

Oh, yes, I remember Luby's. At the time you could transport a gun in your vehicle, but you could not bring one into a restaurant. Except if you are a thug or a psycho.

[polmaven]

12. May I ask

why it is you doubt that it was an automatic rifle?

[We_Have_A_Problem]

15. Among other reasons...

...they're hideously expensive, and people who have them don't usually commit crimes.

Semi-auto more than likely - especially since most rifles are these days.

[polmaven]

18. Ah...Ok

Thanks.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

23. Anytime

There have only been 2 crimes committed with legally owned automatic weapons in the last 75 years or so - in both cases, the criminal was a cop.

Automatic weapons are really not the "bullet hoses" the Brady Campaign makes them out to be. They are also very rare in private hands in the US and frankly, they're really not good for anything outside of a combat environment. They're inaccurate, burn through ammunition at a scary rate, and are pretty difficult to control. For suppressive fire? Great. Crime? Not so much.

[safeinOhio]

38. "legally owned"?

Where did it say Legally owned? Crimes are committed with full autos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm1PEY8F4xE

[We_Have_A_Problem]

45. I said legally owned.

There haven't been that many crimes actually committed with them even if you count the few which have occurred with black market imports.

The North Hollywood Shootout may well be the only one.

[safeinOhio]

51. few crimes are committed by criminals

with legally owned or possessed fire arms. Not all, just most. The world would be very safe if criminals had fewer guns and legal owners were not involved in love triangles and personal and family arguments.

As for fully-Automatic weapons vs semi=Automatic weapons. BOTH are automatic weapons. No action is required to chamber a round after the first firing. We use the qualifiers FULLY and SEMI to narrow down the type of AUTOMATIC weapon we are talking about. It is not a plot by the newspapers or ignorant people that name a type of weapon without using the qualifier in front. Much like when someone calls a car a car without saying sedan or coupe.

[Flyboy_451]

81. While youare correct in your distinctions...

and the lack of distinction provided by many, I cannot agree that it is not intentional, at least by many on the side of stricter regulation. The media comments may or may not be intended to mislead, but it is pretty hard to argue that those who support such measures as the Assault Weapons Ban do not actively try to confuse and conflate terminology. It is likely that the average person hearing reports that identify guns as "automatic" picture in their mind a fully automatic capability. Likely because they are not familiar with and have no interest in learning about such firearms.

While it can be argued that media outlets are not doing this with any particular intent, the same cannot be said of gun control proponents. This is exactly the type of confusion that they aim for and rely on. This is the group that is purposely trying to inject misunderstanding and confusion. Josh Sugarmann even said so himself...

"The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons—anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun—can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons." -Josh Sugarmann, Executive Director, VPC Assault Weapons and Accessories in America, 1988

Do you honestly believe that a person that makes the above statement would not actively try to forward misconceptions about guns in general, and the distinctions between semi-automatic and fully-automatic specifically? This is one area that gun control proponents have done pretty well in. By using terms that are easily misunderstood or misinterpreted, they often gain support from those who simply do not know the difference and may hold different views if they possessed a clear understanding of the subject matter.

The problem is made worse by people who assert that the terminology is not important. When discussing subjects of a technical nature, the terminology is always important to insure clear understanding by all parties involved. The media should have enough integrity to at least try to be clear and concise in their reporting of events. anything less than this effort is irresponsible at best, and intentionally misleading at worst.

JW

[SteveM]

21. The number of automatic rifles in civilians hands is probably less than 300K...

To own an automatic rifle, sub-machine gun and certainly a machine gun, one must gain a supporting letter from local LEO, register the arm with the feds, undergo a background check (more than NICS), pay a tax, and be required to open your residence for inspection to make sure the arm is there; in effect, self-suspending your 4th Amendment protections. There are other requirements. Further, automatic rifles, etc. cost many thousands of dollars for even the most cranky and unreliable types. Further still, any servicing/repairs must be performed by a certified machine gun smith, not just any smith. Records are kept all along the line.

[Atypical Liberal]

26. Look up machine gun prices.

The cheapest machine gun you can buy starts at around $9000.

[polmaven]

50. Wow!

I had no idea!

[doc03]

11. How many restaurants are in the USA? I would say your odds

of needing a CC weapon in a restaurant are close to your odds of hitting the lottery.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

17. And your odds of needing a seat belt

are pretty low too - but when you need one, its too late to put it on.

[safeinOhio]

39. Lots of people survive accidents because

they were not wearing a seat belt.
go figure?

[We_Have_A_Problem]

46. Statistically...

not that many.

You want to bet your life on not wearing one - go for it. That's your choice. I disagree with seatbelt and helmet laws too.

[safeinOhio]

52. I guess I bet my life every time

I drive my 1950 automobile. No seat belts and no law requires I have or wear them while driving it. I have a CCW, but hardly ever carry and feel completely safe. Statistically, if I stay out of domestic conflict, not be involved with illegal drugs, don't carry much money or wear jewelry, my chances of being involved in gun violence is very small also.

[Marengo]

57. Then you are a safety hazard to other drivers...

By not installing a seatbelt in your vintage vehicle, you have significantly increased the possibility of becoming a dangerous projectile in the chance of an accident.

Doesn't seem very socially responsible to me.

[safeinOhio]

63. State Farm doesn't think I'm much risk.

6 months of FULL coverage for $68. For a mustang with seat belts and air bags it would be 10 times as much.

[Marengo]

70. Physics trumps an insurance company....

Sorry, there's no denying you're placing yourself and other drivers at greater risk by remaining unrestrained.

[safeinOhio]

78. Much less so than anyone

that exceeds the legal speed limit, of which about 70% do and I don't. Plus, I am breaking no laws.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

80. Not to threadjack...

...but that isnt quite true either.

Speed is not the problem. Speed differential is.

Fact is, the drivers who refuse to break the speed limit regardless of traffic speed are far more dangerous than anyone who does speed. This fact, and many others which destroy the "speed kills" myth, were researched to death back in the 80s and 90s before the national 55mph limit was abolished.

[Marengo]

85. At any speed you are placing yourself...

and others at greater risk of injury by not wearing a seat belt. Are you honestly suggesting that the risk of injury in a collision while not wearing a seat belt and traveling at a legal highway speed 65mph is "much less" than someone who is wearing a belt and exceeding the limit by 10 or 20 mph?

[safeinOhio]

87. not at all,

just saying lives have been saved by not wearing a safety belt. I always wear mine when in a modern car. Would you be happy if those that lived because they were not wearing a seat belt died?

[Marengo]

88. How many lives have been saved by NOT wearing a safety belt...

Compared to the number saved? Somehow, I think the comparison will not favor your position.

"I always wear mine when in a modern car."

If your vintage car is capable of any speed over 0 mph, wear one in it as well. Or, are you claiming that somehow the laws of physics are significantly different inside your vintage car?

"Would you be happy if those that lived because they were not wearing a seat belt died?"

I'd be happier if you would simply install wear a safety belt in your vintage vehicle. There is simply no reasonable excuse or intelligent reason not to.

[safeinOhio]

89. Thank you for your opinion and concern.

[oneshooter]

65. I have installed removable seat belts in my 1952 M38a1. n/t

[safeinOhio]

90. If you could list about 4 or 5

news articles about human bodies that have become dangerous projectiles, causing serious injury or death to another, I'll buy your argument.

[Marengo]

91. There is simply no GOOD reason or excuse to drive unrestrained.

If you are unrestrained, it is far more likely you will cause injury to yourself, other passengers in the vehcle, or possibly others outside your vehicle if you are ejected. After being ejected, it is quite possible you then become an immediate road hazard causing secondary accidents.

[Marengo]

92. Forgot to ask, do you ever carry passengers?

In the front and back passenger seats?

[polmaven]

13. CC??? Is that Command and Control?

:shrug:

Dayum I think we need a "text translation" list.

[SteveM]

25. Concealed-carry.

[polmaven]

47. Ooooh! Of course!!

Gaaaa!

[DWC]

32. Wednesday October 16, 1991 just before 1:00 PM

I had just finished lunch at the Hallmark Restaurant about 1 mile east of Luby's in Killeen, Texas when police and ambulance sirens went off EVERYWHERE.

Yes, I remember.

Yes, I carry in restaurants.

Yes, I carry everywhere else as well.

If it comes down to it, I choose at least the possibility to be judged by 12 rather than carried by 6.

Semper Fi,

[doc03]

48. You carry a gun because you heard sirens 20 years ago?

I got a CC permit two years ago just to say I had it, I carried it a couple times when I first got it. Then I got to thinking I am 63 years old and never once in my entire life have I ever needed a gun and if such an occasion popped up I would probably be better off without it anyway.

[Hoyt]

54. It makes me happy to see folks my age demonstrating real sense.

[DWC]

71. No. The question in the OP was...

"Does anybody remember Luby's in Texas?"

My answer is Yes, I remember. It happened in my "back yard".

That day my handgun was in my vehicle in the parking lot of Hallmark Restaurant just as Suzanna Hupp's handgun was in her vehicle in the Luby's parking lot. That is no longer the case.

I note you have exercised your right to choose whether to carry or not. I respect your choice. Please respect mine.

Semper Fi,

[PavePusher]

84. Miss the point, much? n/t

[dtexdem]

37. So you could add to the carnage.

Thank goodness there weren't a bunch of armed gunnuts in there -- scores would have died.

[friendly_iconoclast]

41. Another prophecy from the faith-based gun control community.

Y'all have been predicting these "friendly fire" shootouts for years, and they've yet to happen.
Looks like your crystal ball needs a thorough going over with Windex and some clean rags.

[oneshooter]

43. Proof? Or are you just picking your facts out of your ass? n/t

[ileus]

60. I suppose this is another reason to scrap the 380 for a 45.

[oneshooter]

66. Don't scrap it. Give a good retirement. It has done its job faithfully for you. n/t

[ileus]

69. I was going to make it my backup poker... lol

scrap a working gun? blasphemy I tell you!

[rbixby]

74. The thing is though, its one thing to carry a gun

its a completely different thing to aim it at someone and shoot to kill.

[Name removed]

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