Girls Basketball Star Is Shot to Death in Manhattan

[MyrnaLoy]

A star player in high school girls basketball was shot dead early Sunday in a building stairwell in Morningside Heights in Manhattan, the police said. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/12/nyregion/tayshana-murphy-basketball-star-is-shot-to-death.html

[TheWraith]

1. nt

[LAGC]

2. Terrible, just terrible.

What policy changes do you recommend we take to try to avert such tragedies in the future?

[In Jest]

3. Girls weren't meant to play sports

This is God's Revenge.

[Tejas]

4. Girls Basketball Star Is Shot to Death in Morningside Heights (Harlem)

slightly gentrified, but still Harlem.

[baldguy]

5. The response of "gun enthusiasts" to these types of tragedies comes in two flavors:

Either "if she'd been carrying a gun it wouldn't have happened", which is utter bullshit.

Or "she got what she deserved" because of her economic situation, living conditions, ethnic background or choice of occupation, which should be considered highly offensive to any rational human being.

Its NEVER EVER EVER that there's simply too many guns in circulation.

[S_B_Jackson]

6. I don't believe that I've seen either of those flavors...but nice strawman

that you're constructing. When do you enter the lists to tilt at it?

[baldguy]

7. "...still Harlem."

[S_B_Jackson]

8. And your point is???

[Atypical Liberal]

9. How about this flavor instead?

Either "if she'd been carrying a gun it wouldn't have happened", which is utter bullshit.

I don't know of anyone who things carrying a gun is a magic talisman. Carrying a firearm is no more a guarantee of being able to defend yourself from an attack than a seat belt is a guarantee of being able to survive a car accident.

A firearm is simply a tool that gives victims of crimes another option besides running, submitting, or engaging in a physical contest of strength with their attackers.

It does not guarantee that using that option will be successful.

Or "she got what she deserved" because of her economic situation, living conditions, ethnic background or choice of occupation, which should be considered highly offensive to any rational human being.

I don't think any innocent person deserves to be shot to death, regardless of their economic situation, or living conditions, or ethnic background, or occupation.

But this does not mean that your chances of being involved in such events as this have no correlation with economic situations, living conditions, ethnic backgrounds, or choices of occupation, and it is the continual ignoring of these aspects of social problems and the continual focusing on firearms instead that will continue to allow such social issues to fester.

Take a look at this homicide map for New York City:

http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map

If you are White or Asian, you'd be forgiven for thinking homicide was a rare thing in NYC. Guns are just as widely available to Whites and Asians in NYC, yet 61% of the victims and perpetrators are Black, and nearly 30% of the victims and perpetrators are Hispanic. It's NEVER NEVER NEVER about the socio-economic problems of African-Americans or Hispanics that limit their opportunities and make lives of crime, gang participation, and savagery out of desperation and hopelessness commonplace. Nah, it's ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS about the guns.

And of course it has nothing to do with an 18-year-old high school student out dancing at 3am. When I was a kid in high school, there is no way in hell my parents would have let me stay out all night. And when you consider that 67% of the homicides in NYC happen at night, we can see that this is a particularly bad idea in NYC.

[baldguy]

10. You do realize that you're proving my point, right?

No, of course you don't.

:eyes:

[Atypical Liberal]

11. Nope. I don't even know what your point is. n/t

[iverglas]

19. when I was 18 my parents had had no say over my life for 2 years

And I did what I bloody well pleased, which included going and staying overnight wherever I wanted.

This would be amusing if it weren't so ugly.

A 15-year-old gets shot while attempting to mug someone, and he's the scum of the earth who deserves to die because he's a budding sociopath and the world is better without him and on and on literally ad nauseam.

An 18-year-old stays out late and she's a "kid" whose parents should have been controlling her.

Hypocrisy, anyone?

Ms. Murphy fled into her building, her mother said. She took the stairs up a few floors, but stopped, said her mother, who said she was basing her account on what she learned from a friend who was with her daughter.

Soon, the gunman entered the hallway and pointed a gun at Ms. Murphy, her mother said. She told the gunman, “I wasn’t with them” — a reference to whoever was involved in the earlier dispute — before he fired, according to the account given to the mother.

Ms. Murphy, who had a basketball tattooed on her forearm, started playing the game when she was 5, her mother said. In pickup matches she was often the only girl on a court full of boys. Relatives and friends said that Ms. Murphy hoped to play professional basketball and earn enough money to move her family out of the projects.

But you know, when it comes to the statistics, she'll be one of those kids-who-aren't-kids, those other people we just don't have to worry about, the ones whose race and neighbourhood and socioeconomic circumstances are all we need to know to dismiss their deaths as matters of concern to anyone.

[Tejas]

21. "dismiss their deaths" - what poster did that?

[iverglas]

22. what, is this the only thread in this forum?

You're funny.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

23. For one who demands foot noted citations for the sun rising in the East

That is a truly hilarious response from you.

[iverglas]

25. I only seek civil discourse

That being discourse in which no one feigns naiveté or ignorance or surprise when reference is made to notorious facts.

If someone wants to deny that the responses to things like homicide statistics always and ever include references to how whole lots of them are comprised of people of certain, er, ethnicities, living in certain areas, engaging in certain activities, with the obvious implication if not plain assertion that they may be discounted by anyone concerned about real risks ... well, they may feel free to do so.

I don't really care, y'know?

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Union Scribe]

29. Lol.

[SteveM]

60. Well, be the change you want to see. nt

[PavePusher]

12. Cite, please? n/t

[one-eyed fat man]

13. just how do mean that??????

"...choice of occupation..."

It is the minimum wage clerk's fault that some vermin should want to herd them into a cooler?

Or are you disturbed by the unseemly resistance exhibited by those uncivilized troglodytes who resist the "redistribution of wealth" at gunpoint as practiced by economically disadvantaged "yutes?"

[We_Have_A_Problem]

14. Nobody has said anything of the sort...

except, of course, you.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

15. "she got what she deserved"

face/palm.

I require links to that assertion, please.

I am horrified to think that a fellow DUer would say such a thing and I have a very hard time believing this accusation.

:o :wtf: :wow: :wtf: :o

[Tuesday Afternoon]

16. and since you put it in quotes -- I think you should be able to produce

the exact quote . . . I will wait . . .

[petronius]

18. You're right, it actually never is that "there's simply too many guns in circulation"

Some are in the wrong hands, and many hands are poorly educated in firearm safety, but the problem simply is not one of "too many."

Looking around this forum, it's clear to me that gun owners are in fact quite interested in and open to policies to keep firearms out of those hands. But few gun owners are keen on proposals that create unreasonable costs, risks to, or infringements on our own rights, particularly without any demonstrable likelihood of successful crime/accident prevention...

[RSillsbee]

17. Can you please tell us how this anecdotal, current events

drive by, crime story fits in w/ the stated mission of this forum?

Discussion of gun-related public policy issues or the use of firearms for self-defense belong in the Guns Forum.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

24. [phone]

this forum has been abused and misused far too long.

[MyrnaLoy]

28. been ruled on by the site owners

guess what? You lost!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

30. not the first time I have disagreed with them, however -- I stated my case

and abide by their findings. I respect their decision. It is their site, after all.

carry on...with your callous disregard of innocent (or criminal, for that matter) people shot in the belly.

[MyrnaLoy]

31. my guess is

then you should take your displeasure into the proper forum.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

32. are you trying to tell me where to go?

:rofl:

[MyrnaLoy]

33. I'm sure someone

will be along shortly to do just that

[iverglas]

39. it's called "Ask the Administrators"

just for info.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

44. you know where you can go?

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hint: further south than ATA ;)

[iverglas]

47. where this is going is a little far

MyrnaLoy said: "then you should take your displeasure into the proper forum."

If you believe she was not referring to Ask the Administrators, well, maybe you should ask her what she did mean.

I couldn't think of what else that would mean, myself.

Several issues from this forum have been taken there for rulings recently.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

49. it was a joke --

dumbass.

sheesh. lighten up Francis.

what? is it?

are you and Myrna trying to start a catfight in the gungeon?

[iverglas]

38. is there a reason for this?

Have you also whined about all the reports of righteous shoots posted here day after day?

Those are the ones that contain actual real ... well, it isn't really disregard, is it? ... rejoicing in the deaths of human beings, some of them not even old enough to drive.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

41. yes, I have as a matter of fact. anecdotal cuts both ways

I have told you before iverglas ...

take you snide and shove it where the sun don't shine.

[iverglas]

45. "snide"

snide Adjective/snīd/
1. Derogatory or mocking in an indirect way: "snide remarks".
2. (of a person) Devious and underhanded.


Not seein' it, myself. I asked a direct question about your choice to interrupt this discussion with irrelevant comments.

I'll have to look for those complaints about "righteous shoot" tales ...


I find the often disingenuous, often ugly threads about "righteous shoots" tedious myself. I don't try to pretend that they aren't relevant to firearms policy.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

46. I WAS NOT THE ONE TO INTERRUPT. I AGREED WITH SOMEONE ELSE

and I find it very odd that you two choose to gang up on me and ignore the person who made the statement.

[iverglas]

48. perhaps it was because you added this nasty little twist:

carry on...with your callous disregard of innocent (or criminal, for that matter) people shot in the belly.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

50. edit update --

on edit:

it has NOT been deleted:

MyrnaLoy (979 posts) Sat Sep-10-11 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. doesn't matter to me
he's the dumbass with a bullet in his gut for probably what amounts to 8 bucks. How much do you think he took outside to smoke? Think he even grabbed his wallet?

[AtheistCrusader]

51. I have.

Others have as well.

"Have you also whined about all the reports of righteous shoots posted here day after day?"

Of course, those posting 'good shoots' claim they are counter-balancing the malfeasance/criminal use/accidental deaths that get posted, and the AD/ND/Criminal posters claim they are counter-balancing the 'righteous shoot' clods, and we get nowhere without mod intervention/ruling on this issue.

Almost enough to drive one to drink, because the herd of anedotes drowns out any interesting policy debate in this forum. And it gets a little sickening to see people dancing in the blood of victims and attackers.

[iverglas]

53. well everybody, let's start a petition

Let's go back to "guns in the news".

http://www.google.ca/search?num=30&hl=en&safe=off&complete=0&biw=1024&bih=640&q=site%3Awww.democraticunderground.com+%22guns+in+the+news%22&btnG=Search

[AtheistCrusader]

54. Sign me up.

Post something in AAD or what?

[petronius]

55. +2. It would certainly declutter the forum, and perhaps reduce a bit of

'Latest Page irritation' for those odd ducks outside our walls.

Why don't you go ahead and start one, and while I can't promise to contribute, since I've never felt the urge to post a thread of the drive-by news sort, I promise to chastise those who don't play along (with eyeroll smilies and perhaps even veiled questions about their parentage)...

[iverglas]

56. so go recommend it!

:P

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x460887

[gravity556]

66. rejoicing in the deaths of human beings, some of them not even old enough to drive.

Really? Wasn't aware that the criminal who found himself nose to nose with a citizen who wasn't afraid to stand for what's right died. Where's the cite? Also, most folks find it abhorrent that a 15 year old holds life and law in such low regard as to try and murder a man who refused to be bullied. The only rejoicing was on the side of the pro-criminal safety yahoos, crowing about the victim (hint-NOT the uncivilized criminal whose actions precipitated his being shot) getting what they felt he deserved. Why did he deserve to be shot? According to the PCS crowd, he should have handed over his money and whatever else the criminal wanted-in not doing so, he somehow asked to be shot.

I must admit, the logic of the PCS folks escapes me. They wail about armed criminals-who are undoubtedly a threat to our society, but hold citizens who also see criminals as a threat but take measures to protect themselves against individuals who have no morals, no sense of right and wrong, only a overblown sense of entitlement, those citizens are seen as somehow more a threat than armed gangs. Absolutely bewildering.

[Tejas]

36. That what, copy/paste police-blotters is substance?

At least you have something to be proud of. Now if you could only express your personal views about your copy/pastes, you would be awesome.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iverglas]

58. my goodness

Seriously -- nobody at DU has ever chosen the username "Master" before??

I think in this case I may be permitted to say: "spam". And I have.

[oneshooter]

20. And what new law, or change in current laws do you propose to stop this from happening again? n/t

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[oneshooter]

61. Well do you? n/t

[oneshooter]

63. Again you run when asked a question. What are you afraid of? n/t

[oneshooter]

65. Still no answers. Probably still running. n/t

[rl6214]

26. Move along folks, just another drive-by news reporting

nothing to see here.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

34. you got that right

H5

[Atypical Liberal]

40. More on the case...

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/cops_questioning_two_possible_suspects_gKQgvZ3az9cjuXKAohNwWL

"Both thugs were from the Manhattanville projects a few blocks north, and one of them had been assaulted at the Grant Houses earlier in the night -- an incident that had nothing to do with Murphy -- during one of several run-ins between the projects’ rival factions, the sources said.

Suddenly, one of the goons yelled, “That’s him! That’s him!” indicating the solidly built, 5-foot-7 Murphy, who had her hood up, the sources said."

Apparently one or more of the thugs had been involved in a physical confrontation with someone earlier, and decided to seek retribution later, and thought that Murphy was the one they were looking for.

While I still wonder what 18-year-olds are doing out at 4am in the projects in NYC, the victim was with her mother at the time of the shooting, so I can't so easily fault parental supervision.

[iverglas]

42. tell us what you were doing when you were 18

This person was going about her lawful business, and was at her home, "the projects" being her home, when she was killed by someone who had ready access to a firearm and who should never have had access to any firearm.

Just another one of those "gang-related" shootings we all don't need to worry about, though.

[AtheistCrusader]

52. Like many law abiding citizens, I do not allow my comings and goings to be dictated by

shitheads. When I was 15-16, I would walk, dead of the night, through the worst neighborhoods in south West Seattle (like Highland Park) to go wherever I damn well pleased. Nobody ever seriously bothered me, but if they had, they would have no more right to do so, than if it were 12 noon.


I miss it, actually. I used to walk to Camp Long and yeah yeah, I know, it closes at dusk, but I liked to go into the park, climb to the top of the climbing wall, and lay on it and watch the sky/moon. Less entertaining in the daytime. Police never bothered me even though there was a ton of vandalism and underage drinking and fighting there, because... well.. they never saw me.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Atypical Liberal]

64. More on the case: Gang related.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2011/09/13/2011-09-13_tayshana_chicken_murphy_shooting_nypd_id_toughs_with_guns_caught_on_video_fleein.html?r=news

"Police were interviewing two witnesses to the bloodshed, which apparently stemmed from a war between the Grant Houses and the Manhattanville Houses.

"It's been an ongoing beef," said Iesha Sekou, 53, head of an anti-gang organization. "Some of it goes back to when these kids weren't even born."

Murphy's cousin, Pierre Walton, 21, said he believes one of her brothers, known as Bam-Bam, was a key player in the latest dispute.

"They shot her because that was her brother," he said. "It was no mistake. They knew."

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/defending_her_bro_lyFS6LSwtuN976cF3TP2vM#ixzz1Xy1K9NrZ

A raging gunman shot Murphy in the chest, hip and hand about 4:15 a.m. Sunday after chasing her to the fourth-floor hallway of Harlem’s Grant Houses, where she lived.

“It wasn’t a mistake,” he insisted, contradicting earlier accounts suggesting the 5-foot-7 Murphy, 18, was mistaken for a man -- possibly her brother -- because of her solid build and hoodie.

Walton said “Bam Bam,” 16, was mixed up in a violent feud between thugs from the Grant Houses and gangs from the Manhattanville projects a few blocks north on Broadway.

“His mother called him because he was destructive, a violent, bad kid,” Walton said.

Turns out Murphy had a record, too:

But Murphy had two previous arrests that were sealed and another for third-degree assault in July.

And she was forced to leave Bishop Loughlin HS in Brooklyn last year after a fight with a 15-year-old girl.