High Springs FL (near Jacksonville) Domestic Violence - Two Dead

[mikeb302000]

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20110911/ARTICLES/110919924/1002/news?Title=High-Springs-man-arrested-in-fatal-shooting-of-his-wife-son&tc=ar">The Gainesville Sun reports

Trenda Owens Hogg, 48, was shot and killed in her front yard Sunday afternoon, and her estranged husband, Russell Dewayne "Rusty" Hogg, 58, sat in jail that evening suspected of killing her as well as the couple's son, Anthony Wayne Hogg.

The rifle that investigators believe Hogg used was found on the property. While a motive for the shootings wasn't clear Sunday, Alachua County Sheriff's Office spokesman Art Forgey said an "ongoing domestic dispute is what led to this."

Forgey said High Springs police officers knew the Hoggs and had been to the family's house a number of times for domestic disputes.

Are domestic abusers in Florida allowed to have long guns? I realize a rifle or shotgun in the home is as American as apple pie, but shouldn't people like old Rusty be completely disarmed?

Is the pro-gun argument that rifles are rarely used in a crime part of the problem here? Is that what the local law enforcement thought the last several times they visited the Hoggs family?

In http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2009/07/guns-and-women.html">the famous Hemenway study of high gun states, Florida was not listed as one. In fact it comes way down the list below such gun-loving places as Wyoming, Montana and the Dakotas. But what the theory of "guns are bad news for women" shows is the more guns there are the more women get killed in domestic disputes.

Florida's been in the news a lot lately, not just with domestic situations, but with http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2011/09/oh-look-another-mass-shooting-with.html">general gun violence. Maybe their gun-violence star is ascending. It could mean http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2011/03/florida-takes-crown-from-arizona.html">another jewel in the crown.

What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/">(cross posted by Mikeb302000)

[petronius]

1. I have never heard of a 'firearms and domestic violence' law that distinguished

between handguns and rifles/shotguns, and the rarity of rifle-crime is irrelevant to the topic.

My opinion is that you should google up what the laws actually are; it would give your commentary some much-needed depth...

[gejohnston]

2. you really don't know anything about US federal

gun control laws do you? If he was ever convicted of domestic abuse, it is a federal crime for him to possess any gun of any kind.
Hemenway is an economist who does his studies with grants from the Joyce Foundation, his not a criminologist nor is he taken seriously in their circles. If the issue were climate change, Hemenway would be what Robert Kennedy Jr describes as a biostitute.

[Atypical Liberal]

3. The laws in Florida

Are domestic abusers in Florida allowed to have long guns? I realize a rifle or shotgun in the home is as American as apple pie, but shouldn't people like old Rusty be completely disarmed?

Here are the relevant parts of the law in Florida:

http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/p/gunlaws_fl.htm

It is unlawful for:

Any convicted felon to have in his or her possession any firearm or to carry a concealed weapon unless his civil rights have been restored.

The following persons to own, possess or use any firearm - drug addicts, alcoholics, mental incompetents, and vagrants.

For persons to have in their care, custody, possession, or control any firearm or ammunition if the person has been issued a final injunction that is currently in force and effect, restraining that person from committing acts of domestic violence.

If Mr. Hogg had a restraining order against him, then it would be illegal for him to possess firearms. Otherwise, no.

Of course, there is nothing to stop Mr. Hogg from obtaining firearms anyway. He may not be able to buy them from an FFL dealer, as he would fail a NICS check, but he could easily pick up the local Penny Saver and buy one from a private citizen for cash on the barrel.


Is the pro-gun argument that rifles are rarely used in a crime part of the problem here? Is that what the local law enforcement thought the last several times they visited the Hoggs family?

No. The weapon involved has nothing to do with anything in this case. Unless Mr. Hogg had a restraining order against him, or some other disqualification under the law, then there was no reason for him not to be able to own a firearm.

In the famous Hemenway study of high gun states, Florida was not listed as one. In fact it comes way down the list below such gun-loving places as Wyoming, Montana and the Dakotas. But what the theory of "guns are bad news for women" shows is the more guns there are the more women get killed in domestic disputes.

Florida's been in the news a lot lately, not just with domestic situations, but with general gun violence. Maybe their gun-violence star is ascending. It could mean another jewel in the crown.

All of the above links were to your blog, which I will not click on, so I won't comment on them. Next time provide non-blog links.

[mikeb302000]

8. so, how does it work in FL

when a known and convicted wife-beaters goes into a hunting goods store and buys a shotgun or deer rifle. How is he found out? Does it depend on the honor system?

[petronius]

10. The dealer calls into NICS, and if the buyer has a domestic violence conviction

or is the subject of a protective order the sale is denied. Both of those are federally prohibited categories for firearms purchases...

[Atypical Liberal]

13. NICS background check bounces sale.

so, how does it work in FL when a known and convicted wife-beaters goes into a hunting goods store and buys a shotgun or deer rifle. How is he found out? Does it depend on the honor system?

Assuming that this conviction resulted in a disqualifying felony or a restraining order then he would fail his NICS background check when he attempted to buy a firearm through an FFL dealer.

But like I said before, there is nothing stopping anyone from buying a firearm from a private citizen which requires no background check at all.

[AtheistCrusader]

16. HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY NOT KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION?!

HOLY SHIT

[ProgressiveProfessor]

4. You are totally disconnected with the realities of US law

Hemenway is also a bad joke, as others have already pointed out

[gravity556]

5. How can you be so vehemently anti-gun

yet be completely ignorant about what the current laws are? Seriously, I'm curious. Why is complete ignorance of both firearms and the laws concerning them such a common trait amongst anti-gunners?

If her husband had been convicted for domestic violence, he no longer has the RTKBA. If he gets his buddy to buy him a gun, his friend committed a felony by straw purchasing and transferring a firearm to a prohibited possessor (provided his buddy knew he was prohibited). Both illegal. If he bought from a private party and lied about not being prohibited, Mr Wife Beater has again broken the law, and since the NICS database is closed to private citizens, there's no way for a private seller to run a NICS check, which would show that the wife beater was prohibited. So apparently, more laws don't stop lawbreakers.

As for how he killed his wife, what does it matter? There are plenty of abusive assholes who also beat their wives to death with their bare hands. Rather than trying to see how to restrict law abiding gun owners (you know, non-criminals. the kind of people who obey rather than break the law), why not scream for stronger penalties for wife beaters? Maybe make it something that the violent party can't just bond out of. That way they don't get out of jail and finish what they started. It's already been established that you have no qualms about violating the bill of rights, so why not impose unreasonable bail (say a million dollars bail, set by legislature like minimum sentences) instead? Or does actually preventing murders like this not fit into your agenda?

As for the type of guns used in crime, look up the FBI stats. I think rifles are only used in 2% of homicides committed with guns. Of course, if you learn anything in your crusade against guns it would probably just mess with your zealotry.

[mikeb302000]

7. well, I'm not completely ignorant

I know what a barrell shroud is.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

12. Your knowledge in this area is nanometers deep

It is why you and several other posters embarrass yourselves here daily. Others avoid the technical/features area and arguably do better in posts. They also participate in other threads and post new/original material. Clues for you to follow.

[AtheistCrusader]

14. Well, I don't know what a "barrell" shroud is.

Do tell.

[gravity556]

17. I find your claim

that you're not completely ignorant on the subject to be laughable. Do please expound on your purported wealth of knowledge regarding firearms-you can start with explaining what a "barrell shroud" is, then maybe you can explain the difference between an assault rifle and "assault weapons". Going to google is cheating.

I'm sure you're just as knowledgeable about guns as the Brady bunch. So, come on and dazzle us.

[SteveM]

6. "...famous Hemenway...?" Famous at GOP-founded, GOP-led Brady Center. nt

[DanTex]

9. He's a reputed scientist. You know, scientists: the people gunners despise even more than criminals

[Marengo]

11. Are all scientists above reproach and incapable of error? N/T

[AtheistCrusader]

15. That's pretty funny given the ignorance of statistics compiled by qualified statisticians in the emp

loy of the government, demonstrated by the anti-gun OP.