After your first purchase a waiting period seems pointless.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

Waiting periods are supposed to prevent crimes of passion. But if someone already owns at least 1 gun what's the point of having them wait each additional time they purchase a gun?

[qb]

1. To discourage reselling on the black market.

[TheWraith]

2. How?

It's not like you wait three days per gun, or like someone intent on straw purchasing can't visit four or five gun shops.

Besides which, most weapons used in crime still come from theft.

[Euromutt]

10. Actually, the largest number of firearms "diverted" come from crooked FFLs

According to the ATF report "Following the gun" from 2000, in ATF investigations from 1996-1998, the single largest source of "diversions" in terms of numbers of guns trafficked were crooked FFLs (~40,000 guns). By comparison, the numbers of guns stolen from FFLs were ~6,000, from private residences ~3,300 and from common carriers ~2,000, for a total of ~11,300. Straw purchasing formed another major source, with ~22,500 guns straw purchased from FFLs' fixed places of business.

Unhelpfully, the report classes "gun shows and flea markets" as a single source (~26,000 guns), without making the distinction between sales by FFLs and by private sellers. But since FFLs typically make up at least 50-75% of firearm vendors at any given gun show, and they have more guns to sell than private sellers, it's a safe bet that the majority of guns diverted via gun shows are straw purchased from FFLs, NICS checks notwithstanding.

So theft is a major source of "diversions" but it is by no means the biggest.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

3. I'd think anyone trying to fill a market demand would

be more worried about volume than wait.

If I had to wait 5 extra days to make $10,000 on 1 deal it would still be worth $10,000 grand and if I was doing it repeatedly the offset wouldn't even be noticed after a while.

[aikoaiko]

9. That's an interesting economic issue called discounting delay

This is just an aside, but I need a mental break from work.

10K is still 10K five days from now, but answer these questions.

If you had a choice between receiving 10k now or 10K in five days, which would you choose? 10K now? I would. 10K in five days is uncertain.

How about 9999 now or 10K in five days? I'd still go with 9999 now.

How about 9998 now or 10K in five days? I'd still go with 9998 now.

How about 9997 now of 10K in five days? and so on.

Eventually the now amount is no longer the preferred option and 10K in five days is preferred.

And that is how you discover the value of 10K in five days.

I'd probably switch at 9k.

[RaleighNCDUer]

4. Because that first gun may have been taken by the police under court order

to keep him from shooting his ex?

[TheWraith]

6. If you have a court order against you, you won't pass the background check.

Assuming, of course, that the police haven't fucked up, and it's actually in the system. The waiting period is irrelevant.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

13. Hmmm. That's an interesting point

I presume it is part of the background check rationale as opposed to the cooling-off period rationale.

[gejohnston]

15. I can see your point if

the judge issues order and cops show up on Monday, and you are shopping for replacements on Tuesday before NICS gets updated.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

22. Having the check...

...be "instant" and the update take weeks kind of defeats the idea. (IMO)

[gejohnston]

38. true, maybe I should have qualified it with "a big if" nt

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

25. Why would the cops show up? In most states, they have no idea you own a gun.

[gejohnston]

37. True, unless

whoever files the restraining order mentions it. Otherwise we agree on the absurdity.

[ileus]

5. Here in Va you can't buy but one pistol, unless you have your CHP

then you can buy all you want...seems Virgina kinda agrees with you except there's not a waiting period just a limit on the # of pistols you can buy in a month/day/week (I'm not sure which)

[safeinOhio]

7. No problem here in Ohio

I can go to a yard sale or the parking lot at any gun show and buy all the handguns I want with NO questions asked. Just go to Ohio or any other state that allows it.

[gravity556]

17. You can only purchase a handgun in the state you live in.

Some states allow you to purchase long guns in adjoining states provided the gun is in a legal configuration in your home state (can't buy a standard configuration AR in AZ if you live in CA). That's why the gun community was pissed off when Bloomberg sent that kid to buy guns illegally at gun shows in different states. Kid committed multiple felonies but never got charged, nor did his co-conspirators in the Brady bunch.

[safeinOhio]

39. That is the reason background checks

are needed on private sales. An honest person can legally sell to a prohibited person who does not mention that he is a serial killer. If it makes sense on retail purchases, it would make sense on private sales.
All that kid did was to prove that any prohibited person can make a buy at those gun shows. Of course that got the NRA wacko's shorts in a knot.

[Gman]

8. Ummm... they rape a baby in the meantime?

[S_B_Jackson]

11. What is a waiting period?

No such think in most states.

[-..__...]

12. There would have to be some verification system in place...

that a buyer is currently in possession/owns a firearm in order to bypass subsequent "waiting periods".

Not sure how that could be achieved unless that first time purchase took the form of registration... which is even more vile, insidious and distasteful

than a waiting period.

Regardless... first purchase or umpteenth, waiting periods are unacceptable, no matter what the claim or purpose is.

[SteveM]

14. Yep, there's the dropping in the punch bowl...

A few years back, there was a serious discussion by regular pro-2A posters here, concerning the feasibility of making the NICS test universal, and not just for Federal Firearms Licensees. The biggest concerns were, IIRC, the cost of such a system and who would bear it (keeping in mind poll tax issues); questions of constitutionality, esp. over the feds taking on a function heretofore handled by the states, i.e. regulating individuals who were not already regulated by the feds (FFLs); and the potential for abuse by gun-controller/banners who want a de facto registration system. As I recall, most pro-2A folks were philosophically supportive of this proposal.

I agree with you, however, that elimination of waiting periods should not be hinged on a system that can readily become the wedge for prohibitionists & banners. The state has an interest in regulating firearms purchases, and have let concealed-carry permits become a "registration" of sorts, allowing the CC citizen by-pass the NICS system in some places (in Texas, to by-pass metal detectors in the State Capitol bldg). Even this registration short-list has been abused by some vehemently anti-gun MSM journalists who sought and in some cases posted the web sites of state's CC lists; a mean, dangerous and spiteful approach to journalism in the "public interest."

[Nuclear Unicorn]

26. everify is pretty quick to check SS numbers.

Could the same principle apply?

[SteveM]

31. SS numbers are pretty public...

I don't know of any fail-safe way to make a limited-purpose list of firearm status for any reason. Gun-banners would likely work feverishly to Wikileak a list for punitive purposes. Frankly, I support in principle the idea of universal NICS testing. But even if the cost and constitutional questions were cleared up (the latter by the adoption of model legislation, perhaps), the problem still arises when a record of someone, somewhere who has some kind of gun is revealed by rabid gun-banners who want to get at it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Plain_Dealer Scroll down to "controversies" with yet another conservative paper.

Perhaps this question needs to be resurrected, esp. given the ever-changing technological wiring of "security." As I recall, few regular gun-controller/banners weighed in on the discussion; I don't know why, maybe they think such a proposal could be both fire walled for protection of gun-owners, and (to mix metaphors) take the steam out of gun-control efforts.

[spin]

16. In Florida there are exemptions to the three day waiting period ...

What Are the Gun Laws in Florida?

***snip***

Excluding weekends and legal holidays, there is a three-day waiting period to purchase a handgun from a retail establishment. Exempt from the waiting period are concealed weapons permit holders and those trading in another handgun.
http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/p/gunlaws_fl.htm

I live in Florida and in my opinion the Florida gun laws are very reasonable.

[oneshooter]

18. No waiting time in Texas

If you have a CHL then there is no NCIS check either.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Hoyt]

19. Shoot, after you've got one gun, how many more do you need if it's for self-defense?

I actually believe anyone with several more weapons than they need ought to be subject to tougher restrictions -- including very long waits -- because they might be a little sick or enjoy being a straw purchaser or conduit for guns to those who can't pass a background check. Yea, I know hunters; target shooters; collectors; etc.; might have a few more than average -- but we'd be better off making sure all those extra guns aren't stored in a compound somewhere . . . . . .

Just one guy's opinion who has been around gunners all my life and found most of them shouldn't have even been allowed to be within 1000 yards of guns.

[AtheistCrusader]

20. Different weapons for different purposes.

I carry a scandium frame revolver when running. Normal carry is a full-frame XD. Can't really carry the latter in a normal holster when running a marathon or whatever.

[oneshooter]

21. So how many of yours are you going to surrender to the Police? n/t

[jmg257]

23. If 1 is nice, then 2 is usually better.

For carrying, not always smart to mix your choices, but if there is enough similarity, then its not a big deal.

In the winter, where one usually wears heavier cloths...jackets, zipper sweatshirts, etc., it is easier to conceal a more effective piece (usually means larger).
Unfortunately one may have to give up a bit in stopping power or capacity or comfort in order to make it easier to conceal a (smaller) handgun. Having options is always good.


Of course not all guns are bought for self-defense, plenty of firearms are bought just because they are a blast to own and shoot.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

28. This rule does NOT apply to marriages.

One is plenty... sometimes too many.

[jmg257]

36. Ha..sweet! (sshhh....don't tell my wife I laughed). Nt

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

30. For example:

"...plenty of firearms are bought just because they are a blast to own and shoot."

[PavePusher]

24. The Psychic Tele-Psychiatrist strikes again!!! n/t

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

27. However many it takes to make anti-gun heads explode

Lots of people have lots of guns regardless of your approval, hoyt.
Deal with it. :rofl:

[-..__...]

29. How many guns do you need?

This "sick" person recommends 7 as a reasonable number...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce8Q7BKda20&feature=player_embedded

Which must make me an extremely depraved, disturbed individual as my compound cache exceeds that at least 4 times over (I know... I know. By a lot of standards I'm just a noob :smoke:).

BTW... what's the problem with having a "compound"?

Something else for you to have an irrational fear of?

[MicaelS]

35. Good video, good recommendations .. n/t

[SteveM]

32. Whatever fits into the wheelbarrow I use to go anywhere. nt

[GreenStormCloud]

33. At least several more.

What I have for self-defense depends upon whether I am carrying or defending the home. If I am carrying then I have to have the correct gun for the activity and weather. It is called having the right tool for the job.

[gravity556]

34. You get rid of yours, first. n/t