Some Residents Up In Arms After Ruidoso Mayor Bans Guns

[ProgressiveProfessor]

RUIDOSO, N.M. -- Some Ruidoso residents are upset over a mayor's recent executive order banning guns on village property.

KRQE-TV reported that residents plan to voice their outrage at a city council meeting today over an order issued by Mayor Ray Alborn banning firearms from village buildings except for law enforcement. They called the order illegal.
.
.
.
Alborn said the village attorney assures him he has the right to make the executive order.
In 1986, New Mexico residents voted to amend the state constitution forbidding local regulation of firearms.
==============
More here: http://www.kvia.com/news/29169518/detail.html

Original Order: (Could not find it on the Village site)

Clarification by the Village Mayor: http://www.ruidoso-nm.gov/VillageClerk-Exec/Pdf_Documents/Press%20Release%20Weapons%20in%20Village%20Buildings.pdf

More media coverage: http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/local/southeast/citizens-argue-mayor%27s-ban-on-guns
==============
This is boiling down to violation of the state preemption clause in New Mexico. Unlike Florida there are not enough teeth in that law for the Mayor to feel it personally if he is indeed wrong.

I have not found any details about the incident that precipitated this.

[AtheistCrusader]

1. What's with these idiot mayors that think they can flout state law?

Seattle's Mayor did as well, even after getting the opinion of the state AG that doing so was illegal.

[spin]

2. Florida just passed a simple solution to that problem ...

Florida Forces Towns to Pull Local Laws Limiting Guns
By LIZETTE ALVAREZ
Published: September 10, 2011

MIAMI — The signs — “No Guns Allowed” — are being stripped from many Florida government buildings, libraries and airports. And local ordinances that bar people from shooting weapons in their yards, firing up into the air (think New Year’s Eve) or taking guns into parks are coming off the books.

The state has spoken, again, on the matter of guns, and this time it does not want to be ignored: since 1987, local governments in Florida have been banned from creating and enforcing their own gun ordinances. Few cities and counties paid attention, though, believing that places like Miami might need to be more restrictive than others, like rural Apalachicola, for example.

But this year the Legislature passed a new law that imposes fines on counties and municipalities that do not do away with and stop enforcing their own firearms and ammunition ordinances by Oct. 1. Mayors and council and commission members will risk a $5,000 fine and removal from office if they “knowingly and willfully violate” the law. Towns that enforce their ordinances risk a $100,000 fine.

To comply with the law, cities and counties are poring over their gun ordinances, repealing laws and removing gun-related signs. In Palm Beach County, that means removing ordinances that bar people from taking guns into county government buildings and local parks and from firing guns in some of its most urban areas. In Groveland, that means they can now fire their guns into the air to celebrate. And in Lake County, firearms will soon be allowed in libraries.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/11/us/11guns.html

[ProgressiveProfessor]

4. Solution I saw proposed elsewhere was to have the council deny funds to defend against the already

filed lawsuit. Also when a suit is filed against the mayor personally, deny qualified immunity and force him to bear all costs of defending against it.

The above is unlikely since the Mayor is most likely tight with enough of the council to prevent such an occurrence. However if it even comes up...

[iverglas]

37. "the Mayor is most likely tight with enough of the council"

Or, put another way, "the mayor and a majority of the other democratically elected council members probably agree on this matter".

One of the candidates for council in the 2010 election was Rafael "Rifle" Salas ...

Alborn got his BSc in health and physical education in 1962 -- I've been looking for party affiliation, out of curiosity, but it does not seem to be part of the municipal election process, from anything I've found.

Is this voter registration data or something?
http://www.voterfactory.com/Ruidoso_NM_Kay--A_Albert-Andrews_5206.html

... Says he's a Democrat ...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

40. Ruisdoso is a small town. Lots of old boy network there

Like many small towns, the local council may be non-partisan, especially if there are a goodly number of Federal employees living there.

The mayor hosts a call in show on a local xtian radio station, and his bio does not read particularly liberal or progressive. His career is based on football (playing and coaching). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Alborn

The site you found is not a gov site, but it does appear he is a registered member of the Democratic party.

[iverglas]

43. well, he was the only mayoral candidate

who showed up to speak to a local Democratic women's organization. ;)

I read a few favourable opinions of him; apparently the fact that he is precisely not one of the good old boys is one factor in those opinions.

http://www.topix.com/forum/outdoors/TPKA421DA8L4EG7U2

... The only one that spoke his mind and told it like it is, was Alborn. He is the only choice to get away from the status quo. ...

Ray Alborn is the only one of these candidates that is worth a hoot. He doesn't belong to the GOB's "good ol boys" and has done a good job on the planning commission. He works hard for free at the food center to give food to the needy. Gibson knows how to suck money out of the taxpayers. Don Williams knows how to do nothing and get a check from the county and city. Joan Zagone is a semi-nice person with no clue as to what is going on. Ray Alborn im sure is not supported by the powers that be and would be a refreshing addition to a sinking ship. Vote on tuesdayy for someone that hopefully can right the ship, Ray Alborn.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/las-cruces-nm/TD7H5GOHBU6KQLAK0

[ProgressiveProfessor]

45. I see those as typical small town comments

Since P&Z is an appointed position, and he was on it prior to being elected, I would think there is some GOB.

[iverglas]

48. good for cosmopolitan you

I see them as local people expressing informed opinions.

[AtheistCrusader]

5. We've had that same law in Washington for decades, IIRC.

Didn't stop our mayor, even after advice to the contrary from the AG. Ridiculous.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

3. Apparently the the town lawyer is backing the mayor, or at least the mayor said he is

Supposed to be a council meeting tonight. The NRA-ILA and pro guns sites are all over this. Mayor's defense of this almost seems to be along the lines of martial law and is clearly a direct violation of the New Mexico constitution. Be interesting to see what comes from the meeting.

[gravity556]

6. Hopefully someone from the state level steps in

and takes away the mayor's crayons. Un-fucking-believeable-why do politicians sometimes get that "I'm not beholden to my constituency" complex?

[Drale]

7. I have to wonder if something happened to bring this up in the first place

for instance, right after the last elections, some right wing lunatic decided he would get his way at our village hall meeting by pulling a gun. He was wrestled to the ground and thank god no one was hurt, but this very easily could have ended in someones death. I don't want to debate the merits of guns but I still hold the the view that there are certain places guns don't belong, in politics, in sports arenas and in bars.

BTW: I never saw anything about this in any of the news, but he was a right winger so it does not surprise me.

[gejohnston]

8. I always thought of it as a nonissue either way but

maybe he was pissed that the wife found out he blew the mortgage money on a horse at the track (Ruidoso Downs) or some tourist did something stupid.

[pipoman]

9. .. Coming Soon..Another humiliating loss for gun control

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

10. WOW... someone's going ot win the lottery there. Illegal search and seizure and 2A violations abound

I hope the mayor gets run out of town.

[Gman]

11. Great news. Ruidoso is a great place

and it shouldn't be spoiled by assholes carrying guns.

[gejohnston]

13. too touristy for my taste, besides

it basically applies only to town government buildings.
Personally, I always like Alamogordo and Cloudcroft.

[rl6214]

17. Cloudcroft is nice, normally a little cooler

but I go to Ruidoso to fish, can't do that in Cloudcroft.

[rl6214]

16. I live two hours away from Ruidoso and

I carry every time I am there, nobody knows. Concealed means concealed.

[oneshooter]

20. Then don't carry one. It's your choice. n/t

[slackmaster]

24. Except, of course, for people carrying guns while wearing attire that resembles some kind of uniform

:eyes:

[ileus]

12. Classic example of overreaching...I hope there's backlash.

[Hoyt]

14. Let em whine and bitch -- but don't give in to their irrational desires. Voters are on your side.

The majority do not feel the need to pack a gun or two in public. They might not be vocal, like those who can't face life in public without a gun or two. But, they will support you, Mayor, for standing tough.

"Some are opposed" does not equal "majority are opposed to laws against any ole -- and sometimes irrational -- soul walking around in public space with a gun or two."

[rl6214]

18. "don't give in to their irrational desires. Voters are on your side."

And you know this how? Do you even know where Ruidoso NM is? I doubt it. I have friends that live there and they aren't for this ban. Only you think someone dosen't feel the need to pack a gun or two in public but there are many that carry concealed there.

"gun or two", you managed to squeeze that into those four sentences THREE TIMES. I think that's a record even for you.

[Starboard Tack]

105. "I have friends that live there and they aren't for this ban"

Doesn't get more objective than that, does it? Friends of yours not agreeing with a gun ban. Wow!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. It is a violation of the New Mexico constitution

While I am surprised that state law allows what it apparently does, the mayor's actions are questionable.

I have to wonder if you would have supported him if the executive order infringed on other rights.

[AtheistCrusader]

22. "Standing tough" is the new "breaking the law". Got it.

[Hoyt]

26. In reading the other links in OP, I notice a lot of T-Party members are blasting the Mayor.

Hope none of those gun crazy folks take up arms against the Mayor for doing the right thing.

Next thing you know M Bachmann and all the right wing candidates will be in town to show support for the T-Partiers who are in a tizzy over having to leave the friggin guns at home. After all, they might need to shoot an immigrant or something.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

27. Depending on the source, tbaggers are being cited as such, other places not so much.

This has attracted national attention (NRA-ILA has sent out a notice) and the Village does not have deep pockets. I expect the Village to fold and the mayor may or may not resign.

What is clear is that the Village may not have more restrictive rules/laws that state. That the state allows sidearms in public meetings, council meetings etc is somewhat surprising. A couple of the links I posted discuss that.

[AtheistCrusader]

28. Or the mayor might need to obey the law or something.

They will be suing, you can count on that, and probably in the next election, replace him with a t-bag friendly candidate.

Hope a few days of deliberately and obviously violating state law was worth the new mayor.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

42. Real telling point will be what the council does

Not sure they can over ride, but they surely can repudiate this position. Then again, its a small town with a lot of old boy in place. One thing for sure is that the pro gun side will keep up the skeer on the issue.

[Hoyt]

57. I bet the pro-gun side will too -- they can't see life without a gun or two strapped to their body.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

58. Perhaps they object to blatant violation of the state constitution

I am surprised that NM law allows open carry into public buildings, but apparently it does. That needs to be addressed at the correct level. Being mayor is not like being Coach, you can not make up rules as you go along.

[Hoyt]

60. Naw, the Mayor is just tired of seeing a beautiful/peaceful city ruined by indiscriminate gunners.

Don't blame him. Hope he prevails, or at least starts a movement to reason. Too many folks out there afraid they'll need their guns to fight off UFOs and poor immigrants.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

61. Pretty clear at this point he will lose and then quit

says much about the situation doesn't it

[iverglas]

71. it does indeed say much about the situation

It says exactly what he said:

http://www.kasa.com/dpps/news/politics/verbal-shots-fired-in-ruidoso-gunfight_3941695

Ruidoso Mayor Ray Alborn issued the executive order banning firearms from government property and meetings a month ago, after a citizen refused to give up his gun after taking the podium.

"The police chief took it away from him, he filed a suit. At that time I realized how unprotected we in the front of the room, there's 11 of us, plus all of our citizens and employees who were at the meeting, how unprotected we were,” Alborn said.

... Alborn says if village council shoots down his executive order he might step down.

“My responsibility is health, safety and welfare of our employees so if we're not going to be able to do these kinds of things I’m not sure I want to be sitting in this seat,” Alborn said.

What were you suggesting it said about the situation? Quite frankly, I have no idea.

[Hoyt]

82. Deranged gunner shows up a gov't meeting packing -- Makes me want to send the Mayor a contribution.

[Katya Mullethov]

96. Enough for a tactical purse

[Hoyt]

98. Actually that unarmed lady helped stop the guy without anyone being shot.

[Katya Mullethov]

100. She went down wailing for her life , and then left like she was told to

And then fatboy rambled on for another five minutes before the fuzz showed up . Note her screams @1;00 are quite horrific , she knew she was about to die .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODwsVhcAMtM
Had she snuck up behind him and put one in his gourd , it WOULD have ended it right there , but she would have been vilified in the press .You and many others would then be inventing something completely different with no relation
to what actually happened .

[AtheistCrusader]

97. Deranged?

I guess that's why all those people got shot then...

[gravity556]

107. To support his current violations of both the New Mexico and US Constitutions?

You should send him all your life savings so that he stands a chance. Plus you get to write it all off as a loss. Or save it and donate to his legal fees when he gets recalled and personally sued by every single gun owner in NM whose rights were violated. That might be a more effective use of your money.

And can someone show me in the FL state gun laws where firing in residential areas or firing up in the air is legal? It's a state felony here in gun cazy AZ. See, Hoyt, the state can write and enact laws on things like firearms, as well as preemption acts to keep some podunk mayor from getting too big for his britches, so I think the hysteria in the original article was written by someone with absolutely no knowledge of firearms laws. Nor do they understand the roles of national/state/town government.

And I don't blame any FLA gun owner for wanting to carry to any meeting with the anti-rights side. They tend to show up screaming sloagans that get more obscene and less intelligible the later in the day, and that's around the time the full water bottles start soaring into the pro-rights crowd.

[rl6214]

72. Ufos and poor immigrants?

What the hell do you know about Ruidoso, NM? Other than what you can google up really quick you know absolutely nothing.

[Hoyt]

80. So, do you think NM T-Baggers who are pissed about their guns don't also "hate" so-called illegals?

I know dang well they do.

I've been through Roswell too. Saw a UFO, or maybe it was just some yahoo shooting tracer rounds into the sky.

[rl6214]

86. No I don't think they "hate" so called illegals

You've been through Roswell, big fucking deal. I live in the area, takes me a couple hours to get there and I do go there at least half a dozen times a year, spending days at a time there each time I go.

"saw a UFO"

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Hoyt]

99. T-baggers do hate so-called illegals, and legal minorities as well. Where have you been?

[PavePusher]

109. I'm against illegal immigration, but I don't hate the people doing it.

Where have you been?

[rl6214]

70. There ya go

I knew you could get that gun or two strapped thing in there somewhere.

Really does anyone STRAP guns to their bodies anymore? Nope, don't think so. Nobody wears leather belts with holsters with leg straps anymore. It's mostly plastic holsters or leather holsters that retain the gun. No straps required. You need to find a new line for your shtick. This one dosen't work anymore.

[Hoyt]

81. You don't consider this a holster held by a strap?

[rl6214]

87. AAAAhahahahahahaha

That's cute. Is that yours?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[SteveM]

56. If all you say happened, then the mayor would be totally irresponsible...

"Next thing you know M Bachmann and all the right wing candidates will be in town to show support for the T-Partiers who are in a tizzy over having to leave the friggin guns at home. After all, they might need to shoot an immigrant or something."

Your prediction, but you're okay by it since the mayor is "...doing the right thing?"

[iverglas]

78. "you're okay by it"?

By what? and by what inference?

Dunno, makes no sense to me ...

Larry Pratt has already paid his courtesy call, I believe.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

29. bkmrkng this comment for future reference.

when elections are held in Ruidoso, let us just see the results.

[Hoyt]

62. Let's pray the result is not a massacre by New Mexico's version of Loughner.

You get that "gun culture" riled up and you never know what will happen.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

63. oh my

:rofl:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

64. That is a slur beneath you

Loughner was attacked by a drooling lunatic the system should have caught and stopped.

There has not so much been a peep about a threat to Coach Alborn.

[rl6214]

74. Yeah, just like that has happened so often before.

You're gonna point us to where that has happend before, right?

[Hoyt]

79. You don't think more people are getting pissed enough at government to start using their guns?

I do, and Loughner is a good example. Remember, he opened fire at political rally with his legally totable gun.

[gravity556]

108. No, we know exactly what happens-

the anti-rights crowd of ghouls gets sweaty palms in anticipation of the blood of the innocent to use on their protest signs.

[SteveM]

55. I doubt you know "voters are on [his] side," but in any event majority rule doesn't...

mean constitutionality, hence legality.

[Abq_Sarah]

85. Luckily, NM law isn't decided by the "majority"

We have a Constitution to prevent mob rule.

[-..__...]

15. Never judge a tool by the choice of their fonts...

but, in this case, exceptions can be made...

http://www.ruidoso-nm.gov/VillageClerk-Exec/Pdf_Documents/Press%20Release%20Weapons%20in%20Village%20Buildings.pdf

[iverglas]

38. use of Arial font is an indication of

......... what?

[Tejas]

19. more...

http://www.alamogordonews.com/ci_18889012


At the start of the meeting, Alborn said he would allow three minutes per speaker on the issue, but after 10 people spoke he attempted to end the input and move on to other items on the regular meeting agenda. As the mayor began reading the introduction to the first item, a former marine standing at the podium began speaking over him.

When Alborn tried to tell him to sit down, the audience began yelling, "First Amendment rights."

The mayor gaveled a five-minute recess and the crowd cleared out, but not before the marine said, "The only people you are affecting are law-abiding citizens, because the criminals don't care about the law."

[iverglas]

23. easily found ...

http://www.kasa.com/dpps/news/politics/verbal-shots-fired-in-ruidoso-gunfight_3941695

Ruidoso Mayor Ray Alborn issued the executive order banning firearms from government property and meetings a month ago, after a citizen refused to give up his gun after taking the podium.

"The police chief took it away from him, he filed a suit. At that time I realized how unprotected we in the front of the room, there's 11 of us, plus all of our citizens and employees who were at the meeting, how unprotected we were,” Alborn said.

It's just such a great idea for people to be carrying firearms at civic meetings. ... Well, Larry Pratt thinks so:

"Almost all of the mass murders in our country have occurred in areas just like you're fixing to set up, in gun free zones,” Executive Director of Gun Owners of America, Larry Pratt, said.

And someone who makes a point of doing so, well, there's no doubt about it, that person is obviously a liberal and a Democrat.

Alborn says if village council shoots down his executive order he might step down.

“My responsibility is health, safety and welfare of our employees so if we're not going to be able to do these kinds of things I’m not sure I want to be sitting in this seat,” Alborn said.

Protesters called for the mayor and the village attorney to resign. However, in the end the village council put off the vote.

Alborn appears to be widely respected in the area.

[AtheistCrusader]

30. Widely respected or not, he's violating the law.

There is a proper way to fix this issue, at the state level. He overreached.

Hell, there's even ample court precedent from other 'pre-emption' states. Where the hell did he get his lawyer?

[iverglas]

32. so the statute he cited does not apply?

I wouldn't know; it's all gibberish to me, this "home rule" and "state pre-emption" burble.

[AtheistCrusader]

35. Cited statute does not apply.

Completely trumped by the state constitution.

Adoped in 1986

Sec. 6.

NO law shall abridge the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use, and for other lawful purposes, but nothing herein shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons. No municipality or county shall regulate, in any way, an incident of the right to keep and bear arms.



He just flat-out can't do it. (Concealed carry is legal per other statutes, this part of the state constitution is simply mute on the subject)

[iverglas]

41. well, I guess it could be interesting

Is carrying a firearm at a civic meeting "an incident of the right to keep and bear arms"?

Anyone considering the question will want to know what "incident" means in this context ...

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/incident

in·ci·dent
n.
1. A definite and separate occurrence; an event. See Synonyms at occurrence.
2. A usually minor event or condition that is subordinate to another.
3. Something contingent on or related to something else.
4. An occurrence or event that interrupts normal procedure or precipitates a crisis: an international incident.


Examples:

"It was evident from these authorities that parking was not normally regarded as an incident of a right of access."

http://works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=anna_di_robilant&sei-redir=1#search=%22incident%20right%22

American courts’ treatment of “spite fence” cases varied significantly and changed over time. While, in an earlier stage, in six of the ten states in which actions had been brought for the spiteful erection of a fence, the opinion of the court was against the plaintiff, by the first decade of the twentieth century, courts consistently held defendants liable for maliciously erecting fences or other constructions. Further, in several states, statutes were passed making the erection of a spite fence a tort. In Rideout v. Knox, Justice Holmes reluctantly upheld one such statute. In Holmes’s reasoning, the power to use one’s property malevolently is, to a large extent, an incident of a right established for very different ends, which cannot be taken away even by legislation. However, Holmes concedes, limits to property rights are a matter of degree: while larger limitations would entail too incisive a constraint on the owner’s right, smaller limitations may be imposed for the sake of avoiding a manifest evil.

Just thought it was interesting. ;)

[AtheistCrusader]

52. Well, there's already state-specific precedent starting to surface

so, there might be some word-gaming on an appeal or something, but 99.9% sure the mayor will lose.

Our state's pre-emption clause is more rock solid/plain english.



RCW 9.41.290

State preemption.




The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.



<1994 sp.s. c 7 § 428; 1985 c 428 § 1; 1983 c 232 § 12.>


Notes:



Finding -- Intent -- Severability -- 1994 sp.s. c 7: See notes following RCW 43.70.540.

Effective date -- 1994 sp.s. c 7 §§ 401-410, 413-416, 418-437, and 439-460: See note following RCW 9.41.010.


Severability -- 1985 c 428: "If any provision of this act or its application to any person or circumstance is held invalid, the remainder of the act or the application of the provision to other persons or circumstances is not affected." <1985 c 428 § 6.>


Application -- 1983 c 232 § 12: "Section 12 of this act shall not apply to any offense committed prior to July 24, 1983." <1983 c 232 § 13.>


Severability -- 1983 c 232: See note following RCW 9.41.010.

[gejohnston]

65. Point is

He should have lobbied the state reps in Santa Fe. If the state assembly passed a law not allowing firearms in certain public buildings, he would be in the clear. Trying to shut down citizens speaking out on the subject probably pissed off more people than his executive order, because fair minded supporters of the ban would be rightfully appalled for his lack of respect for the first amendment by shutting down debate when it was not going his way.

[iverglas]

69. "Trying to shut down citizens speaking out on the subject"

Wot a lot of mileage we're getting out of that one.

The speaking was going on at a civic meeting where there was an agenda, undoubtedly with items that other residents wanted to be heard on / hear about. Ten people had spoken. Were there people with something different to say, I wonder?

But hey, what do other people matter when there are gun militants demanding that everybody let them have their way?

[gejohnston]

83. works both ways

I don't know were you there? I wasn't there. The only think I know for certain is I lost ten bucks at the Downs in 1985.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

39. There is some legal discussion at this link

http://www.daily-times.com/nmnews/ci_18888629

As I understand it, other NM cites have lost on this kind of issue, but the circumstances are not quite the same. Legal opinion from the State AG is wishy-washy (no surprise). The authority cited in 3-11-4 is basically for police action/martial law sort of things. 30-14-4 is not applicable is no permits are required.

There is a clear and overriding state law preemption in NM, like there is in California, Florida and other states. It seems clear the mayor is out of the box.

[iverglas]

47. ah, firearms bans for me but not for thee

An opinion released by the New Mexico Attorney General's Office Tuesday may shed a little light on the issue of firearms bans. Thirteenth District Attorney Lemuel Martinez asked if one of his offices, which was relocating from quarters in the Sandoval County Courthouse to a separate county building, could prohibit the carrying of concealed handguns.

"We believe that you have the authority to ban firearms generally, including concealed handguns, if you reasonably conclude that adequate and property security requires imposing such a condition as a requirement for members of the public generally to access the district attorney's office and personnel or other persons located in the office," wrote Assistant Attorney General Andrea Buzzard.

The opinion noted that counties are under a statutory requirement to provide quarters for district courts and offices for district attorneys at county courthouses. The duty includes providing adequate security.

"The legislature recognizes that adequate security measures may include a prohibition on concealed handguns, as determined by the presiding judge. It does not appear unreasonable that adequate security measures for district attorney's offices might include this prohibition as well."

The director of communications in the Attorney General's Office, Phil Sisneros, noted the opinion was in reference to district attorney's offices and not municipal locations.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

33. Not sure where the widely respected or that he is a liberal came from

Nothing in the articles I found, but I could have missed something.

He also has a radio show on a xtian station and tried to stifle public comment last night. Few people are more authoritarian that football coaches, which was his career. Does not sound all that liberal to me.

[iverglas]

46. me neither

Not sure where the widely respected or that he is a liberal came from

Did someone say he was a liberal?

I've posted a couple of links higher up the thread citing some local discussions about him. They were easy to find.


He also has a radio show on a xtian station and tried to stifle public comment last night. Few people are more authoritarian that football coaches, which was his career. Does not sound all that liberal to me.

Never let an absence of facts get in the way of a good opinion, eh? A seat in the Jerry Springer audience is being held for you.

http://www.kedu.us/mayor.htm

Is there another local radio station?

A couple, it seems.
http://www.ontheradio.net/cities/ruidoso_nm.aspx
Do they focus on local events and issues? Did they invite him to do a spot on air?

http://www.kwes.net/news/local-news/
... not so much. Actually, KBUY AM and KWES FM share one website, so I guess they're the only other game in town.

... One other,
KIDX 101.5 FM Ruidoso, NM Phone Classic Rock
no website

[ProgressiveProfessor]

53. Harken back

Did someone say he was a liberal?

Post 23: "And someone who makes a point of doing so, well, there's no doubt about it, that person is obviously a liberal and a Democrat."

Based on your previous posts where you discuss your background, it would appear that you have not spent much time around football players, their coaches, or jocks in general of the American persuasion. Call it supposition based on extensive experience. You did note his threat to quit if he does not get his way on this?

[iverglas]

68. is your reading comprehension really this abysmal?

My statement:

And someone who makes a point of doing so, well, there's no doubt about it, that person is obviously a liberal and a Democrat.

was in reference to someone insisting on carrying a firearm at a civic meeting. It was a sarcastic expression of my belief that someone who does that is not a "liberal" and not very likely a Democrat.

You now purport to interpret that as me saying the mayor is a liberal.

Since I did not state, imply, insinuate or otherwise say or suggest that the mayor is a liberal, and since my statement that someone else is not a liberal does not imply that the mayor is a liberal or that I was saying he was a liberal, we just have one more in the litany of false allegations you rack up here.


Based on your previous posts where you discuss your background, it would appear that you have not spent much time around football players, their coaches, or jocks in general of the American persuasion. Call it supposition based on extensive experience. You did note his threat to quit if he does not get his way on this?

Nope, I'll call it demonizing someone about whom you have not actually lifted a finger to find out any facts regarding his civic record or political affiliation or philosophy, based on some weird prejudice against football coaches.

I noted his statement that he might quit if his policy was struck down ... which would of course mean that he would find himself in the position, along with his fellow councillors and municipal staff, of facing people carrying guns whenever he appeared at a civic meeting.

You can call that "not getting his way" if you like. That doesn't make your representation of what he said any more accurate than your representation of what I said.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

25. A bit more details are coming out about the meeting

- Mayor tried to squelch public comment
- Cops allowed firearms in the building
- No action was taken by the council

The M$M as usual is posting contradictory details. Nothing new about that. The gun sites have their reports with their usual spin as well.

Media links so far:
http://www.kasa.com/dpps/news/politics/verbal-shots-fired-in-ruidoso-gunfight_3941695
http://www.alamogordonews.com/ci_18889012
http://www.abqjournal.com/main/2011/09/14/abqnewsseeker/updated-gun-backers-pack-ruidoso-village-meeting.html
http://www.ruidosonews.com/ruidoso-breaking_news/ci_18888634
http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S2283152.shtml?cat=504
http://www.daily-times.com/nmnews/ci_18888629

The mayor hosts a call in show on a local xtian radio station, and his bio does not read particularly liberal or progressive. His career is based on football (playing and coaching). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Alborn

In California a city council can not take action on something not on the agenda. That appears to be the law in NM as well (inference from some of the media reports). Therefore I would not read anything into no action be taken. The agenda for the next meeting would be more telling.

[iverglas]

49. a bit more opinion from you

Mayor tried to squelch public comment

Yes, limits on submissions from the public are never imposed at municipal council meetings ...


The mayor hosts a call in show on a local xtian radio station, and his bio does not read particularly liberal or progressive. His career is based on football (playing and coaching).
(for at least the second time in this thread)

Wowsers, when you hate somebody, you really go to town on the character assassination by specious inferences, doncha?

[Tejas]

89. This isn't Canada, or Detroit or Dallas where

city council members (of which the mayor presides over) can interrupt or attempt (as this mayor did) to stop a citizen from speaking. Not sure how you do it in Canada, but here in the US the meeting rules provide 3 to 5 minute durations for citizens to address city councils during open sessions.

[iverglas]

92. actually, in Toronto a couple of weeks ago

City Council arranged an all-night marathon session for citizens ... and permanent residents and anyone else who had something to say ... to address council with their concerns, I believe it was about proposed library closings, part of the agenda of the new far-right-wing mayor and his brother. Ah, people just don't seem to understand that they get the governments they vote for ... and that when the brothers Ford promised to get city government out of the hands of the left-wing bicycling crowd and cut those taxes and end the "gravy train", it just might affect their snow removal and such ...

http://www.kasa.com/dpps/news/politics/verbal-shots-fired-in-ruidoso-gunfight_3941695

Locals, activists from the NRA and the Executive Director of Gun Owners of America, who flew in from Virginia, took to the podium to take a stand.

Maybe the non-"citizens" of Ruidoso should have sat down and shut up and let the people affected use the allocated time wisely.

Or hell, maybe the municipal council should just never attend to any other items on its agenda, while a stream of outsiders flies in and yells at it about guns, three minutes at a time ...

[Uncle Omar]

31. No need for people to own guns

Only the police need to have guns. Guns cause violence and murders.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

34. The Constitution, the Courts, and more importantly the People disagree with you

[AtheistCrusader]

36. Oh shit, I better melt mine down!

Can't have them running around at night, committing violence and murders.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

59. welcome to DU -- enjoy your stay

big tent, Omar.

:hi:

[ileus]

67. Preach it uncle.....the gunners here won't listen.

[iverglas]

73. tsk

Oh well, you can fool some of the people some of the time, I guess.

Perhaps it's a matter of who wants to look fooled ...

[iverglas]

94. hm

Did I predict the conversion or did I predice the conversion?? Okay, the evidence is gone, but I predicted the conversion. Or questioned the bona fides. Or something.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=461598&mesg_id=461690

How ... odd.

[benEzra]

95. Then don't choose to own one. I choose differently.

And since it is still a free country, we are allowed to disagree. :hi:

[Johnson20]

44. Well, yeah can't fix stupid

[iverglas]

51. is your username

an homage to moi??

Iver Johnson 20

[ProgressiveProfessor]

54. Why do you always seem to bring it down to you?

[iverglas]

66. are you really as devoid of humour

as you seem to be bent on portraying yourself to be?

Seemed like a fitting response to a pointless post, to me.

times two

[Johnson20]

75. No. I pulled it our of my a** when joining. n/t

[rl6214]

76. Yeah, it's all about you

:rofl:

[iverglas]

77. when it comes to sense of humour in this forum

you're right, it seems -- it truly is all about moi.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

84. Actually yours is the only humor you tolerate

When the pro gun bubbas make jokes, obvious sarcasm etc, you and others get serious lee offended.

?w=500

Err I means seriously

[iverglas]

91. snork

Fixed it for you! ;)

[Union Scribe]

88. Humor is better when it is at least slightly humorous. nt

[Tejas]

90. Hopefully the call for a recall election will gain steam.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

93. Be interesting to see what the council does with this

Hard to tell where the mayor stands with all members. This may be a way to get him to resign.

I still like the idea of supporting qualified immunity for the mayor and the city attorney.

[Hoopla Phil]

101. Update: Council overrides Mayor

Alborn (the Mayor) had said if the council overruled him he would resign, but there was no immediate word on whether he still plans to do that.

http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/politics/council-vote-overrides-mayors-gun-ban

I wonder if he will follow through with his threat to resign. I suspect he will not.

[Hoopla Phil]

102. Of the four responses to the article only one seems to be against

the city council action. Normal sarcastic straw man and hyperbole you get from the anti's. I found the first response seemed to set the tone:

"WHAT A MORON THIS MAYOR IS! HOPEFULLY HE DOES RESIGN. RUIDOSO DOWNS IS A SMALL LITTLE TOWN WHERE NOT MUCH HAPPENS AND THIS GUY THINKS HE CAN TAKE PEOPLES RIGHTS AWAY! HOPE HE GET KICKED RIGHT OUT OF TOWN......"

[neodtgonzo]

103. The Historic Shift

Let me introduce myself, my name is Toby. I am a graduate student currently studying the connection between the shift in the role of men in society in relation to the Pro and Anti-Gun movements. I believe there was a shift in how men in society are expected to perform in accordance with social norms. I think this shift can is connected somehow to the Gun Culture in America. However, the only way I see my ideas being evaluated is through 2 surveys that each asks 6 simple questions.

I've chosen this forum as a vehicle to reach out to potential participants due to the exceptional quality of the conversations taking place. If you would like to help me out simply click on the survey that you affiliate with yourself with. Any help is appreciated.

Anti-Gun
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/antigun

Pro-Gun
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/progun

[SteveM]

104. While most folks don't mind taking in-house surveys...

...your survey purports to be part of a university-related survey. Perhaps if you explained a little more about yourself, your interest in this subject, and metholodology, you might encourage folks to participate. I cannot communicate directly with you, as per rules of DU, so you may want to post such information in this thread.

[AtheistCrusader]

106. Get out, we don't like spam.

[rl6214]

110. Very slanted surveys

Not gonna do it.