Bizarre Florida Gun Law Blocked by a Federal Judge

[mikeb302000]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/federal-judge-blocks-enforcement-of-fla-law-restricting-doctor-gun-talks-with-patients/2011/09/14/gIQADgGgSK_story.html">The Washington Post reports

A federal judge on Wednesday blocked enforcement of a first-in-the-nation law that restricted what Florida physicians can say about guns to their patients, ruling the law violates the U.S. Constitution’s free speech guarantees and does not trample gun rights.

U.S. District Judge Marcia Cooke said it was important to emphasize “the free flow of truthful, non-misleading information within the doctor-patient relationship.”

“This case concerns one of our Constitution’s most precious rights — the freedom of speech,” said Cooke, appointed to the bench by Republican President George W. Bush. “A practitioner who counsels a patient on firearm safety, even when entirely irrelevant to medical care or safety, does not affect or interfere with the patient’s right to continue to own, possess or use firearms.”

This was truly one of the most bizarre gun laws, it barely made sense. Yet the support was as strong as if we'd been discussing gun registration, which every gun owners knows leads directly and inevitably to confiscation.

The NRA pushed this nonsense which amounted to a gag order, actually presuming to tell doctors what they can and cannot say to their patients. Governor Rick Scott signed off on it, of course, which contributed to his reputation as one of the worst.

The whole weird story could only have happened in a state like Florida, which as everyone knows is http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2011/03/florida-takes-crown-from-arizona.html">The Most Baneful State of the Union.

What's your opinion? Isn't there an obvious First Amendment contradiction in this legislation? Wasn't it bound to run into trouble in practice? The suggestion that gun talk during a medical exam is inappropriate is ridiculous, but even if it were, certainly should not require a law prohibiting it.

This seems to be another example of the flip-flopping which gun-rights activists often do, always depending on what best supports their agenda. Normally they bristle and resist government interference and unnecessary laws. In this case, they wanted exactly that.

What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/">(cross posted at Mikeb302000)

[Dennis Donovan]

1. Gun talk during an encounter with your physician is very appropriate...

Guns are a hazard, much like secondhand smoke and other factors in the home that the Dr will document in the patients' Past Medical/Family History/Social History record.

[mikeb302000]

3. yes - so obvious. nt

[spin]

7. Yes. I enjoy talking to my doctor about my hobby ...

He does ask questions. We discuss target handguns and the best carry weapons. Sometimes I actually talk enough to manage to avoid his sticking a finger up my ass to check my prostate gland.

[friendly_iconoclast]

10. Parents with guns should lie about it.

Would you accept medical advice from a gunsmith? The same principle applies....

[Scout]

13. "Parents with guns should lie about it."

there's those law abiding gun owners we love so much!

yeah, that's the ticket ... don't like the law, just LIE.

as far as the "advice" comment, it's just ridiculous.

:rofl:

[Atypical Liberal]

15. What law?

yeah, that's the ticket ... don't like the law, just LIE.

What law is being broken when I lie to my doctor?

[friendly_iconoclast]

16. Why not? MD =/= "Minor Deity". But you are partly correct:

I should have said "firearms safety instructor" instead of "gunsmith"...

[SteveM]

19. "Law?" "Lie?" Know the difference? Let us know.

:silly:

[rl6214]

20. That's absolutey fine

I do talk with one of my doctors quite often about guns as we have gone out shooting together. As far as my son's doctor It's just not appropriate to ask if their are any guns in the home. That's nobodys fucking business.

[safeinOhio]

2. First Amendment is just as important

as the Second, only it's first.

[rl6214]

21. What about your right to privacy

It's nobodys business what you have in your house.

[safeinOhio]

29. That's what all of the

felons with guns at home say.

:boring:

[RSillsbee]

31. And they are absolutely correct NT

[SteveM]

24. Yeah, some are more equal than others. nt

[jeepnstein]

4. Tempest in a teapot.

When my kids were born we were asked a few questions about gun ownership. It was obvious to me they wanted to discuss safe storage and the fact that young children can and will shoot themselves if left to their own devices. That conversation was the basis for the purchase and installation of a proper safe at our house. The same people at the hospital also insisted I learn CPR, Heimlich, the dangers of smoking, how to safely bathe a baby, and how to use a car seat.

My primary care physician asks about gun ownership as well. He will basically bring up the fact that I'm still packing a .45 and my hearing is never going to improve so to ALWAYS wear ear pro. Then we both joke about getting rich from a cure for tinnitus.

[Atypical Liberal]

5. I'm mostly ambivalent over this.

Doctors offer advice to parents over a variety of common child injury sources, from pools, to tubs, to buckets.

I don't really care if doctors want to discuss guns with their patients.

[ileus]

6. as long as the info isn't used to get CPS to search your home for "proper" storage.

Then they find out you Conceal Carry and remove the kids from their dangerous parents.

[SteveM]

23. CPS seems to be the go-to agency when sheet-sniffing by the state is desired...

On another topic, I have predicted within 3 years smoking (tobacco) in public in Austin will be outlawed (it has been done in 2 California municipalities already). After that, I'm willing to wage a bet that tobacco smoking will be outlawed in one's residence if children are living there. Now, guess who does the dirty work?

[spin]

8. The incident that started this brouhaha was when ...

a doctor refused to treat a patient.

Federal judge blocks enforcement of Fla. law restricting doctor gun talks with patients

***snip***

The law arose out of the so-called “Ocala incident,” in which a young mother in 2010 was dropped from a doctor’s practice because she refused to answer questions about gun ownership. Her cause found its way to the Legislature, which came up with similar instances around the state that some lawmakers compared to interrogations.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/federal-judge-blocks-enforcement-of-fla-law-restricting-doctor-gun-talks-with-patients/2011/09/14/gIQADgGgSK_story.html

[ileus]

9. Thanks for the refresher....now the whole truth can be known.

[Hoopla Phil]

11. Yep, the anti's started this and are now whining about the results.

It's the backlash I guess.

[MyrnaLoy]

35. Ocala incident

One incident. Remind me, isn't this the same forum complaining about anecdotal vs statistical? One incident huh? How many doctor visits in one year happen in ole Ocala? One incident? From the anecdotal crowd no less.

Now that's funny!

[gravity556]

12. Are the doctors required to take a firearms instructor course?

Because unless they have, chances are that they're as ignorant about firearms and firearm safety as the OP is about firearms and firearm laws. More to the point, telling people about your guns is just piss poor persec. It's none of the doctor's business. Granted, I have a couple of doctors that are fellow shooters.

I've been shooting and handling firearms since I was 5. I would say that 30 years of actual experience override the input of someone who has less experience than me. And there's no chance I would take medical advice from my gunsmith.

[Atypical Liberal]

14. There may be a good reason to listen to your doctor about guns.

I don't expect a doctor to know how to assemble a firearm. But I expect him to be pretty familiar with typical injuries and their causes.

Would you like your doctor to tell you about the health dangers of ticks and other pests in your location, even through they are not biologists?

Would you like your doctor to tell you about the health dangers associated with riding bicycles without a helmet?

Would you like your doctor to tell you about the health dangers associated with children not riding in properly installed car seats?

Would you like your doctor to tell you about the health dangers associated with buckets or swimming pools?

Doctors are, or should be, familiar with the sorts of things that are likely to cause injuries or death, even if they are not familiar with the mechanics of the things that cause them. I really don't have a problem with doctors telling patients with children that if you have firearms, you need to take steps to make sure they are not accidentally discovered and played with.

[gravity556]

25. All of those are health care related.

That said, any idiot can see the danger of riding a bike without a helmet. Though I admit I grew up before the push to put rubber bumpers on all the sharp edges of life. Same with buckets and swimming pools. And ticks. I am not calling my PCP in the event of a gunshot wound. Or a severe head injury. I know CPR in the event of a drowning, as should anyone who has a pool. I don't have kids, so installation of car seats is not a concern for me. As to the storage of my firearms, it's nobody's business. Again, I don't have kids, nor do I allow my friends kids free reign in my home.

[Atypical Liberal]

26. You'd think so.

That said, any idiot can see the danger of riding a bike without a helmet.

Well, you'd think so, but lots of people do it anyway, or let their kids do it anyway.

You'd think any idiot would see the danger of keeping unlocked guns in a house with kids, too.

It's OK with me if the doctor points out these sorts of things to his patients.

I am not calling my PCP in the event of a gunshot wound. Or a severe head injury. I know CPR in the event of a drowning, as should anyone who has a pool.

While you may not be going to your family doctor in the event of a gunshot wound, or a bicycle crash, or drowning, these are still the kinds of common injuries and fatalities that I would expect family doctors to know about and to educate their patients about as part of their usual lectures on safety.

If you don't have kids, then I would not expect most of these discussions to take place.

[MicaelS]

28. She should have told him...

"I have guns in my home, they are properly secured, and that is all you need to know. I do not want to hear any anti-gun propaganda from the AMA or APA disguised as medical advice. I'm not paying you to debate politics with you. Now what is your next question?"

[spin]

34. And he would have probably told her to find another doctor ...

simply because he was a total asshole.

If I had been in his position, I would have politely mentioned that while indeed I had not right to ask if she had firearms in her home with her children. However, if she did there were many excellent methods to secure those firearms so that they were safe form tiny fingers but still available for self defense quickly if necessary.

I might have mentioned a gun box such as this which is available from Amazon.com for $35.00 plus shipping.



And I might have given her some literature to read about gun safety and children.

Of course, I don't hate firearms as this doctor obviously does.

[SteveM]

17. Florida "most baneful state in the union" went for Obama, and was "stolen" by Bush.

But since you are in Italy, feel free to take cultural pot shots at a swing state; I mean progressive Democrats have a huge surplus of states to ensure a presidential election victory.

[Atypical Liberal]

27. Zing! n/t

[rl6214]

18. WOW, only one blind link to you blog today, what a surprise

Come on, why don't you man up and let everyone know that the link goes to your blog?

"Yet the support was as strong"

Which means your assessment of the law as being "truly one of the most bizarre gun laws, it barely made sense" was truly not even anywhere near accurate with as much support as it had.

"The whole weird story could only have happened in a state like Florida, which as everyone knows is The Most Baneful State of the Union."

Ah, taking a swipe at Florida, from your sunny villa in italy I presume.

This your rant seems to be another example of the idiocy which anti gun-rights zealots like you often do, always depending on what best supports their agenda.

Yeah, that about covers it except for the unrec for your blind blog links.

[SteveM]

22. Fine by me. I remember another occurrence of "banning free speech"

proposed by the Florida legislature. In the mid-60s, numerous high schools in Tampa and Jacksonville (the entire public secondary system in the latter) were dis-accredited by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, and the pork-barrel boys tried to pass a law banning saying the word "accreditation." I think it went to a "killer committee."

[saras]

30. The relevant question is "when murderous or suicidal, do you talk to your doctor about killing?"

It's not like doctors chat you up about the best shotgun for pheasant hunting, nor that they're trying to get you to sign some petition. They are REQUIRED to inquire about the easy availability of firearms to potential murderers or suicides.

THIS is the "gun talk" that they wanted to ban, not some other fantasy gun talk.

[X_Digger]

32. Err.. see post #8

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x461685#461750

That's the incident that started this.

[spin]

33. I've had doctors who discussed firearms with me ...

Some doctors target shoot or hunt and some even have carry permits.

My dentist loved to hunt and he often talked about the shotguns he used. Another doctor I knew who was a prominent doctor in the Tampa Bay area was a regular shooter at the range I used to shoot at. The range master visited an ophthalmologist who was a shooter and set the range master up with trifocal glasses that improved his shooting. My dermatologist and I used to discuss shooting every time he was busy searching my body for precancerous lesions to burn off. I had a physical therapist who loved to discus target shooting with me. My GP in Tampa was not a shooter but asked a lot of questions about my shooting when I requested a lead test as I shot at an indoor range. He was originally from Trinidad and while he didn't own a firearm he was interested in learning about them. My current GP and I have talked about shooting as a hobby and he has never expressed any negative feelings toward it although I don't believe he owns any firearms. He is from Russia.

Not one ever has asked how I stored my firearms.

[Uncle Omar]

36. AMA Anti-Gun

The AMA is anti-gun. Goole it...thus reason for failed action.
All guns do is kill people, No need for anything but single shot 22 rifles in the USA. I can't believe my fellow Democrats falling for right wing gun ownership.