Double Shooting in Tampa FL - One Dead, One Critical

[mikeb302000]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/double-shooting-in-tampa-leaves-one-dead-one-critical/1192130">St. Petersburg Times reports

An argument Saturday morning escalated into a shooting that left one man dead and another critically injured after he turned the gun on himself, authorities said.

Jorge Sanchez, 56, and Luis Alberto Fuente, 45, got into a fight at Sanchez's North Tampa home before 9 a.m. Saturday. Sanchez pulled out a handgun and shot Fuente several times, according to the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office.

Rather than be arrested, Sanchez shot himself in the head and is in critical condition. He was "going through a court dispute based on domestic squabbles with an ex-girlfriend." Plus, he'd "been arrested four times in Hillsborough County since 2006 on charges of domestic battery, according to jail records. The last arrest was in January."

I guess it's safe to say Mr. Sanchez was not a lawful gun owner. But he probably wasn't a criminal either, at least in the sense of doing armed robberies and home invasions for a living. He was like many, he did "odd jobs" to support himself and beat up the wife and girlfriend whenever he felt like it.

I'm the first one to decry http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2009/07/guns-and-women.html">the terrible problem of domestic violence and how guns make it worse, but I also see a difference between those guys and the ones who use guns in the commission of their crime, the bank robbers, muggers, etc.

The good news is all of them are prohibited from legally owning guns. The bad news is gun availability is such that any one of them who wants to can easily own a gun anyway. That's the problem.

http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2011/09/solution.html">The enforcement of proper gun control laws is the solution.

What's your opinion? You know that traditional argument offered by the pro-gun crowd? They say criminals will get guns anyway and there's nothing we can do about that.

To me that is the lamest most self-serving argument I've ever heard. According to them we should do nothing to limit or prevent the gun flow from lawful gun owners to criminals because if the criminals don't get their guns that way, they'll simply find another.

What's your opinion? Is gun violence a serious enough problem that we should take it seriously? Do you agree that http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2011/09/solution.html">my Solution would, at least in some part, eliminate the access of guns to the bad guys?

Please leave a comment.
http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/">(cross posted at Mikeb302000)

[petronius]

1. You've mixed them up: the deceased (Fuente) had the battery arrests, not the shooter (Sanchez)

But that aside, your differentiation between spouse/partner abusers and the 'real criminals' is distasteful at best. You may imagine yourself to be among the "first one to decry the terrible problem of domestic violence," but you sure didn't show it in this post... :thumbsdown:

[Union Scribe]

2. Well put. nt

[Atypical Liberal]

8. Exactly. The blog spam makes no sense.

Mike has completely juxtaposed the criminal background of the victim with the shooter. As such his article makes no sense.

[friendly_iconoclast]

9. You don't *have* to get the facts wrong to advocate for gun control- but it helps

It certainly helped a lot here....

[mikeb302000]

10. actually, in many a post

I have linked to http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2009/07/guns-and-women.html">one of my most popular items.

[spin]

13. I've learned not to click on any of your links ...

as many of us have here in the Gungeon.

[SteveM]

15. Use a trap more than twice, even a rat can figure it out. nt

[rl6214]

19. No one is clicking on your blind links anymore.

You got something to say, why don't you just say it?

[GreenStormCloud]

20. Right click on the link. Go to "Properities". Brings up the URL of the link.

If it is his blog, close "Properties", if not then the link is safe to click on.

[SteveM]

14. Noted that as well. I guess that's called tailoring your argument. nt

[rfranklin]

3. whatever, if the neighbors had been armed they could have prevented this tragedy...

More guns for everyone!

[mikeb302000]

11. yes, that's true,

but for every stopped tragedy there'd be a suicide, a road rage incident and a couple negligent discharges.

"Let's arm everyone" is as extreme and fanatical as if I preached "let's disarm everyone."

[PavePusher]

17. And you can support that assertion with data, amIrite? n/t

[Name removed]

4. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ileus]

5. No he sounds like a criminal....

[Atypical Liberal]

6. Hard to reply since I won't click on the blog links.

What's your opinion? Is gun violence a serious enough problem that we should take it seriously?

It's hard to reply to this, because I won't click on your blog links to find out what your proposed solutions are.

But if "taking gun violence seriously" means restricting the rights of people not involved in gun violence, then no, I won't take that seriously.

If it means creating a registry of firearm owners, then no, I won't take that seriously.

I support an opt-out FOID system similar to what Illinois has. This would allow all lawful firearm owners to have a license, but would still preserve anonymous firearm ownership.

But I believe that criminals will always get guns anyway, and I believe this will be true no matter what constraints you put on law abiding people.

[Atypical Liberal]

7. There is nothing in your article support that the shooter was not a lawful gun owner.

I guess it's safe to say Mr. Sanchez was not a lawful gun owner. But he probably wasn't a criminal either, at least in the sense of doing armed robberies and home invasions for a living. He was like many, he did "odd jobs" to support himself and beat up the wife and girlfriend whenever he felt like it.

This is complete speculation.

The article states that the VICTIM, Mr. Fuente, had an arrest history, but says nothing about the criminal history of the SHOOTER.

We have no idea from the information you provided whether or not Mr. Sanchez was a lawful gun owner or not.

Your entire article is based on the supposition that the criminal actions of the VICTIM were attributed to the SHOOTER.

As such your article makes no sense.

[jmg257]

12. Yes, I think gun violence a serious enough problem that we should take it seriously.

I also think the licensing of all gun owners could somewhat slow the flow from lawful gun owners to criminals via private sales ('unknowingly' selling a gun to a criminal being the only way a lawful gun owner could do so). Registration could help as well - if the gun owners were actually unlawful, and so otherwise willing to sell to a criminal via a private sale.

I would also think that making criminals suffer much more harsh/mandatory penalties for their crimes (theft and illegal purchase/possession of firearms, and their use) would also limit the flow from lawful gun owners.

Not sure which would have the greatest affect on 'the flow'.

[SteveM]

16. Well, this criminal answered your question: "...simply find another way." nt

:smoke:

[rl6214]

18. Dishonesty, is that your best character trait?

Three blind links to your blog so you can make a few bucks whenever some unknowing person clicks on them. That is the worst sort of dishonesty there is.

"According to them we should do nothing"

What's this WE shit? You are in a position to do nothing. You are hiding out in italy. The laws continue to turn in favor of the RKBA. You "solution" is just a blind dream of an anti-gun zealot.

"I'm the first one to decry the terrible problem of domestic violence and how guns make it worse, but I also see a difference between those guys and the ones who use guns in the commission of their crime, the bank robbers, muggers, etc."

Yeah, sure you are.

"What's your opinion? Is gun violence a serious enough problem that we should take it seriously?"

Only in the hands of criminals and not at the expense of lawful gun owners.

That's my opinion.

[jeepnstein]

21. I'm noticing a trend here.

I guess it's safe to say Mr. Sanchez was not a lawful gun owner. But he probably wasn't a criminal either, at least in the sense of doing armed robberies and home invasions for a living. He was like many, he did "odd jobs" to support himself and beat up the wife and girlfriend whenever he felt like it.

Why is it safe to say this about Mr. Sanchez? Could you be taking a jab at his ethnicity? Sure sounds like it. The more you write the less there is to trust about you.

[rl6214]

22. "e more you write the less there is to trust about you."

I would have to agree 100% with you here.