The future of gun control

[chibajoe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wypFgcqHyvc


It's a very well made video, and deals with a home invasion scenario. It was made in response to the new anti-OC law in California, according to the author, although it is not about open carrying.

On a side note, is it possible to embed youtube videos, I can't quite figure it out?

[CanonRay]

1. Gun contol? Shit, we'll be lucky if there is Social Security in another year.

Gun control is so far down the list I can't even see it.

[SteveM]

27. I agree with your fears about Social Security...

which is why I started pulling mine when I turned 63, and not 68 or 69; hell, who's hiring anyone over 55?

Gun control is further down the list of possibilities, but that issue continues to be dredged up by Democrats, from Pelosi, Holder to Obama hizself. I don't won't it to be an issue at all (and it wasn't one until some time after the Zombies charged in the latter 60s). But they keep making it one by continuing to call for bans.

Personally, we'll know when the Far Right finally consolidates its power in the U.S.: It will call for gun-control.

[Hoyt]

2. "Coiled Snake.com?" Hey, T-Baggers for Guns -- What does that have to do with Open Carry?

[Iktomiwicasa]

3. Is it your view...

...that anyone who uses a firearm for self defense must be a tea-bagger?

[gejohnston]

4. self delete

[Hoyt]

6. No. But, it would be a good bet because a lot that parade around with guns in public are TBaggers.

. . . . . . . Especially when they have that coiled snake and maybe even a confederate flag or two hanging around.

I just don't think gunners do themselves any good linking us to obvious right wing Web sites such as this, Stormfront or whatever other sick place they frequent. Personally, I wouldn't want anyone knowing I visited such sites, even if by mistake.

[gejohnston]

8. Stormfront?

confederate flags?
what makes you think we frequent any such places?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_flag
http://www.gadsden.info/history.html

I have no idea why coiled snake based his name on, but I do think we should take the Gadsden flag away from the corporatists and their dupes and put it back in its rightful place in US history.

[Iktomiwicasa]

9. Well...

...Hoyt Quixote needs a windmill to tilt at.

[Hoyt]

11. Not talking about you -- talking about TBaggers, where large majority of supporters are gunners.

And, their love of all things guns is often due to bigotry, hatred, etc.

The OP was from such a Web site.

[iverglas]

12. do you have the least clue?

"coiled snake"??

http://thebrainpolice.blogspot.com/2011/08/join-or-dontor-tread-on-me-and-die-im.html
Since the tea brain movement rose to prominence in early 2009, the yellow “Don’t Tread on Me” flag has been a ubiquitous presence at everything from health care protests to campaign stops.

... just on a quick google images search -- with interesting commentary on the irony there.

[Iktomiwicasa]

15. I have more than a clue...

...you, however, might have a problem reading for comprehension. Nowhere did I mention anything about the coiled snake.

[iverglas]

22. oh, I know, you're a tricky one!

You responded to this:

"Coiled Snake.com?" Hey, T-Baggers for Guns -- What does that have to do with Open Carry?

by saying this:

Is it your view...
...that anyone who uses a firearm for self defense must be a tea-bagger?

as if that "question" were somehow relevant to the post you replied to.

Hey, maybe you fooled somebody! Sadly, not me.

:eyes:

[Abin Sur]

5. The main actor in the video

Doesn't act nearly scared enough...he sounds more annoyed than concerned for his life.

Other than that, good video. As the saying goes, when your life is on the line and every second counts, the police are only minutes away.

[X_Digger]

7. *snort* k&r n/t

[Abin Sur]

10. The history of gun control...for the last 25 years, anyway

While this maps only covers one aspect of gun control (right to carry) it's very instructive.

[iverglas]

14. do they make a map like that

to show the steady erosion of women's reproductive rights in the USA?

I'm pretty sure it would look fairly similar.

Odd, eh? How the right wing is so consistent ...

[Abin Sur]

16. I'm not sure.

Perhaps if you did some research you could find out...but given that is the Guns forum, it's a bit off-topic, yes?

In any case, you do seem a bit, well...bitter about the gains we've made over the last 25 years in regards to the right to carry.

:party:

[iverglas]

19. "given that is the Guns forum, it's a bit off-topic, yes?"

Sadly, no.

The right wing in the US has many tentacles. Gun militants and anti-choice misogynists handle different branches of the agenda. It's all the same octopus, and it's really quite important that this be noted.

In any case, you do seem a bit, well...bitter about the gains we've made over the last 25 years in regards to the right to carry.

Do you do any better at reading people in the real world? Sad, yes. Sad for the neighbours and the oppressive right-wing agenda being imposed on them, even for those who are willing subjects of it. And yes, apprehensive about the spread of that agenda beyond your borders. Most comparable countries in the world, Canada included, is mired in it right now, and yes, considerable blame for that does lie with the US and the influence it has on so much that goes on in the world.

Bitter about your silly "gains"? Hardly. All the firearms laws and policies shoved into effect by the right wing in the US, all the infringements of women's reproductive rights and labour rights that the right wing has accomplished in the US, all the disastrous economic and regulatory policies it has implemented -- would being "bitter" be productive? I take the long view, myself. This dark night shall pass.

[Abin Sur]

25. So when you drop f-bomb after f-bomb...

It's because you're sad, not bitter. :-(

This dark night shall pass

Given the overwhelming success in the cause of gun rights in the United Staes over the last 25 years (with no end in sight) how long do you think this "night" will last?

[iverglas]

28. how long will the dark night last?

Well, having a good chunk of the older population die will help. The younger ones down there seem somewhat more reasonable, e.g. on same-sex marriage, a sort of indication of minds open to progress.

Basically, I guess I'd have to say until some windows get opened and the light of day makes it into the living rooms of the general population and they begin to see the world around them as it really is, both inside and outside their borders, and where their interests really lie.

You folks really seem to have no realization what a cultural backwater the US already is. It is only its economic weight that has enabled it to sustain its insular obliviousness to modernity and withstand pressures to upgrade, in the interests of both itself and the rest of the world. That insulation is fast rotting away, isn't it?

In this decade, the US just is not going to have the relative or absolute economic power it has been able to wield so far to enforce its weird backward ideas abroad in the world, or be able to withstand the external pressure to stop behaving like a rogue in ways that affect the rest of the world. Your military spending is unsustainable, your use of the world's resources is unsustainable, your economy is unsustainable. The dance for which you have called the tune is drawing to a close. Nobody has ever liked a bully, and a bully wielding no stick will be unable to get its way. Your domestic firearms policies will be on the table, because they affect the rest of the world in ways it will no longer have to tolerate, and in that and other ways, it will be a matter of adapt or die for the US.

Hopefully, the wisdom of progress will become apparent to your public not just as a matter of necessity but for the obvious reason that it is a good thing. If Afghan women can figure this out, I like to think that people in the US can do it too.


I'm not at all sure how my language is supposed to reflect bitterness. I don't think you'll find that "what the fuck?", for instance, is an expression commonly used for that purpose ... maybe you should get one of those emotional IQ checkups?

[Abin Sur]

30. So the world isn't going to tolerate our domestic firearms policy?

How exactly is that going to work out in practice? C'mon, I want details.

I'm not at all sure how my language is supposed to reflect bitterness. I don't think you'll find that "what the fuck?", for instance, is an expression commonly used for that purpose

How about these uses of the invective? And I quote...

"how many fucking clues do you need??" "What the fuck are you talking about?" "Who in the fuck wears a gun to have a smoke on the porch at 1:30 a.m.?" "For fuck's sake, Sarah Brady is not her husband." "What the fuck is your problem here?" "What the fuck are you yammering about?" "I repeat: what the fuck are you yammering about?" "What in the fucking fuck are you talking about?" "For the love of fuck." "Shooting is a fucking hobby." "People who decide to engage in criminal activity really do not give a flying fuck about the fine points of the care and feeding of firearms."

Way to class it up! Perhaps you should be the one getting an emotional IQ checkup...

[iverglas]

31. for you

Why do Canadians swear so much?

An object lesson in why not to consult Yahoo Answers for one's answers:

"the regular canadian doesn't swear a bunch, but the average canadian farmer which makes up a lot of the population does swear a lot 'cause thats what farmers do."

Snork. Yeah. On the other hand,

"Because we're better than Americans."

Snork.


So the world isn't going to tolerate our domestic firearms policy?
How exactly is that going to work out in practice? C'mon, I want details.

Well, you got yer economic ways, eh? There are a lot of people here in Canada would like to see the US get its own back for its bully-boy practices in a lot of areas. Perhaps the best analogy is the desire to decriminalize at least cannabis here, dating from some years back now, and the economic sabre-rattling engaged in by the bully boys in the US administration to stop that happening. (Gosh, you know, they'd just have to search every vehicle crossing the border, thus bringing Canadian exports to a bit of a grinding halt.)

Europe in general isn't really impressed with a lot of US antics. And Europe will be wielding increasing economic and political clout in the world. Hopefully, we will see improvements in the governance of some African countries, for example, countries that aren't majorly impressed with the running of guns that US firearms policies facilitate. Not that the US is the only rogue in this respect, don't get the wrong impression there! But the US's complete failure to be part of the solution to that problem is not going to stand it in good stead either.

The wheels of history, friends. And the decline of empires. The end of history really has not arrived.

[Abin Sur]

32. Somehow, I'm not too worried about Equatorial Guinea's

desires to influence US gun policy. I don't think it's going to have too much of an impact on my ability to acquire class III weaponry anytime in the next, oh, century or so! As for Europe, do you honestly think that influencing US gun laws is on their agenda in the slightest?

In regards to European economic clout, the aggregate growth rate for the EU15 from 2005 - 2010 was about 7%. In contrast, the United States GDP grew 14% over the same period.

[X_Digger]

18. Just think.. when you joined in 2001..

There were 18 states that were either 'no issue' or 'may issue'.

In October 2002, The NY Times ran a piece lamenting 2001's slight bump up in crime (2.5%)..

eta: forgot the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/29/us/us-crime-rate-rose-2-in-2001-after-10-years-of-decreases.html?pagewanted=2&src=pm

"We all knew that the marked downward trend of crime in the 90's could not continue indefinitely," said Alfred Blumstein, a professor of statistics and criminology at Carnegie Mellon University. "The crime rate really came down very far, and one would have hoped it was an indication of improvements in society, but that didn't happen. The economy is a big part of the story."

James Alan Fox, a professor of criminal justice at Northeastern University, said: "The great crime drop of the 1990's is over. It was wishful thinking that it would continue forever. Crime is very resilient."

2001's murder rate? 5.6 per 100,000 (15,980 murders). Violent crime rate? 505 per 100,000.

And yet.. they did continue to drop..

2010's murder rate? 4.8 per 100,000 (12,996 murders). Violent crime rate? 403 per 100,000.

If you lived here, you would be safer now than you were in 2001. With 9 more states that are 'shall issue'.

[iverglas]

20. your glee knows no bounds, does it?

To have so much of one's self invested in such a silly thing, really, it must be a boring old life.


2010's murder rate? 4.8 per 100,000 (12,996 murders). Violent crime rate? 403 per 100,000.
If you lived here, you would be safer now than you were in 2001. With 9 more states that are 'shall issue'.

Why you're yammering about crime rates, I just do not know. Have you seen the figures for Canada released this summer? I wonder how we've managed to maintain the sustained decline in both crime rates and crime severity we've experienced over the last decade, without all walking around with guns in our pants.

Here is 2009 info for background:

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/100720/dq100720a-eng.htm

The crime rate, a measure of the volume of crime reported to police, fell 3% in 2009 and was 17% lower than a decade ago.

The Crime Severity Index (CSI), a measure of the seriousness of police-reported crime, declined 4% in 2009 and stood 22% lower than in 1999.

Violent crimes, which range in seriousness from harassing phone calls to homicide, accounted for about 1 in 5 crimes in 2009. Police-reported violent crime in Canada is also declining, but to a lesser extent than overall crime.

And 2010:

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/110721/dq110721b-eng.htm

The national crime rate has been falling steadily for the past 20 years and is now at its lowest level since 1973.

Police reported just over 437,000 violent incidents in 2010, about 7,200 fewer than in the previous year. Violent crimes accounted for just over 1 in 5 offences.

The violent Crime Severity Index declined 6% in 2010 to 88.9, the fourth consecutive annual decrease. Decreases were reported in every province except Newfoundland and Labrador, where police reported a 13% increase.

There were 554 homicides, 56 fewer than in 2009. The national rate of 1.62 homicides per 100,000 population in 2010 was the lowest since 1966. The 10% decline in the homicide rate from 2009 to 2010 followed a decade of relative stability.

Hurray USA. Murder rate of 4.8/100,000. That's about exactly TRIPLE the Canadian rate. Way to go!

If I lived there, I'd apparently be a hell of a lot less safe than I am now or was in 2001 where I am.

[petronius]

23. "To have so much of one's self invested in such a silly thing,

really, it must be a boring old life," said the DUer with ~34,000 posts over ten years... :rofl:

[X_Digger]

24. That's going to leave a mark, lol!! n/t

[iverglas]

29. aw

Jealous? They taught me to type when I was 11, so I'd be prepared for banging away at my dissertation in later years. Speedy fingers and speedy mind -- I just tossed off about $300 of work in the last 90 minutes -- yay, Parliament is back in session! -- so I have to get back and finish up the remaining $150 worth or so to conclude this evening's tasks ... just taking a break! And then on to the big job due in early October, a nice $6,000 or so. And the nasty little thing I have to do in PowerPoint -- gawd, isn't that just the worst thing ever invented? -- for Thursday. And the other stuff that will be coming in daily now that things are underway in the halls of power again. Gotta take regular breaks from it all, just to rest the brain. The Guns forum is a good place for that ...

[iverglas]

13. how many fucking clues do you need??

From the youtube page:

"In a future version of California, firearm control is taken to a new level by the nanny state government. Although the homeowner owns a gun, he is helpless to protect himself and protect his family from an armed intruder."

California ... "nanny state" ... then there's the cute little bilingual answering system; gotta say "English" if you don't want Spanish.

I know what kind of scum creates this crap; what's with posting it at Democratic Underground?

[gejohnston]

17. You don't phone here much do you?

The choice of English or Spanish is everywhere, almost a de facto second national language. Every government service is press one for English and two for Spanish. To take a driver's test in Florida, you have the choice of English, Spanish, or French. I remember voting information including ballots in both languages in Wyoming (although our Cantonese population was higher, but I digress.) No racism or immigrant bashing there, that is the way it is.

California has safe storage laws like Canada.

So, based on that I missed what you saw.

[iverglas]

21. yeah

The video didn't repeat that "for English say English" thing and have it malfunction a few times for any reason at all.

You don't phone Canada at all, I imagine. All government and major private and non-profit sector organizations have bilingual answering systems, since this is a bilingual country. (My neighbourhood banks provide service in the two official languages and in Italian, Portuguese, Cantonese, Mandarin and Vietnamese, depending on the clientele, and likely in Arabic and Farsi and a couple of others here and there.)

But if I saw a video making a point of how there's French on the cereal boxes, I'd know what I was looking at.

California has safe storage laws like Canada.

Well, somewhat similar. But that's not what the video was about, was it?

[gejohnston]

26. Yes

I have, and had the choice of English and French. Same thing there, other than fact that those are the official languages. It is a legal requirement there. The US really does not have an official language, English was adopted simply because the founders were mostly English speakers. Traditionally, the Southwest was always bilingual. As Spanish speakers moved to other parts of the country, the custom expanded with it.

Yes I do think it is about safe storage laws.