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Aussie Asks: Why Does America Have Love Affair With Guns?

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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-11 10:34 AM
Original message
Aussie Asks: Why Does America Have Love Affair With Guns?
Do you believe that America should have stronger gun control laws? Why?

Should America introduce a strict firearm licensing law like Australia & England?

Do you believe that by restricting the gun laws it would reduce the crime rate? Why?

Should NFA weapons such as machine guns, 50.cal weapons, assault rifles etc., be completely banned throughout America? Why?

Instead of each state having its own gun laws, should there just be one federal law? Why?


---------------------------------------
Some Australian student asks these questions of a gun rights advocate, Eric Pratt. You can read his replies here:
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics/2012-election/aussie-asks-why-does-america-have-love-affair-guns

Erich Pratt is the Director of Communications for Gun Owners of America, a national gun lobby with over 300,000 members.



How would YOU answer?
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-11 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. I assume that "by restricting the gun laws" he means "making gun
laws more restrictive."

I don't think he's wanting to restrict the NUMBER of gun laws.

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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-11 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. Do you think Australia and England should pattern their gun laws after those in the US? Why?
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-11 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I think every sovereign nation should pattern their gun laws after the Maldives.
No reason. I just think we should arbitrarily scrap our laws and adopt those of some other country, just for the heck of it.
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-11 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Sure, we can't do much worse than we are doing now, can we?
Edited on Wed Sep-28-11 11:00 AM by RC
I'm sure Saloma comes to mind for some here.

On the other hand Canada has some pretty tight laws on hand guns, with much looser laws governing hunting rifles. That makes more sense than our wild west gun in every pocket mentality that we have here.



Do you believe that America should have stronger gun control laws? Yes.

Should America introduce a strict firearm licensing law like Australia, England and Canada? Yes.

Do you believe that by restricting the gun laws it would reduce the crime rate? Yes.

Should NFA weapons such as machine guns, 50.cal weapons, assault rifles etc., be completely banned throughout America? Yes.

Instead of each state having its own gun laws, should there just be one federal law? Yes.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-11 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Concerning your third answer
what do you think is the cause of our historically low crime rates? We have the lowest violent crime rates in 50 years and with rates still steadily declining. Since they seem to be working, why not simply continue our present policies?
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-11 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Of course we can.
We can have laws so restrictive that the only people who will have guns are the very type of people who shouldn't have guns.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-11 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. On the contrary, we're doing great. Violent crime has been decreasing for a decade.
Meanwhile, the number of guns in the country has increased by a hundred million.

So clearly, more guns do not cause more crime.

And in England, they banned firearms, only to see their murder rate stay exactly the same. So just as clearly, restricting guns does NOT reduce crime.
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gejohnston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-11 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
27. Actually
Jamaica and Russia come to mind for me. They are stricter than UK. While Russia has very few gun deaths, their murder rate is still five times more than ours. Jamaica makes us look like Japan.

Why should the US strict firearm licensing law like Australia, England and Canada? It did nothing to lower their crime rate, why should we?

Do you believe that by restricting the gun laws it would reduce the crime rate? Can you name one place that has?

Should NFA weapons such as machine guns, 50.cal weapons, assault rifles etc., be completely banned throughout America? Yes. Why? their use in crime is rare to nonexistent.

Instead of each state having its own gun laws, should there just be one federal law? Yes. How about the current four federal gun control laws? Since we have four current federal gun laws now, does that mean all of the states have to repeal theirs? Every state would be like Vermont and Wyoming. Florida's 3 day waiting period, gone.

One thing about Somalia. While it makes a nice talking point, I doubt the local warlords like having an armed populous. The people with guns you see in pictures are members of private armies. The average Somali is not a gun owner.

About Canada: While they have been strict on handguns since 1934, their regulations on machine guns were nonexistent until 1953 (simply registration, but still laxer than ours) until the virtual ban in 1977. The 1934 law was about fear of armed immigrants, 1977 law was about political violence (just like the European laws after the first world war.) None of them had anything to do with crime, making a more civilized society, or any of that crap.

On the "wild west", it did not exist as you understand it.

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Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-11 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
4. ok
Do you believe that America should have stronger gun control laws? no

Should America introduce a strict firearm licensing law like Australia & England? no

Do you believe that by restricting the gun laws it would reduce the crime rate? no

Should NFA weapons such as machine guns, 50.cal weapons, assault rifles etc., be completely banned throughout America? no

Instead of each state having its own gun laws, should there just be one federal law? no
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Atypical Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-11 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
8. It is not a love of guns. It is a love of freedom; A resentment of being assumed to be a criminal.
Really, I don't think Americans, even gun-owning Americans, "love" their firearms any more than a golfer loves his golf clubs, or a stamp collector loves his stamps.

Sure, hunting and shooting sports are fun to participate in, and some people get really into these activities, spending a lot of time and money on equipment, ammunition, club memberships, and the like. But to say that someone has a "love affair with guns" implies some kind of unhealthy fascination, and I don't think that's true for most gun-owners.

What it really is is a love of freedom. Americans love freedom. We love doing what we want, with the understanding that we can do pretty much whatever we want as long as we don't hurt other people doing it. For example: There are very few roads in the United States where the speed limit is greater than 70 miles per hour. It would be trivial with today's computer-controlled cars to mandate that every new car is simply incapable of driving over, say, 80 MPH. But we don't. In fact, we allow the sale of sports cars like the Corvette, the Mustang, the Camaro, and others that are capable of speeds well in excess of 100 MPH, even though this would be illegal and dangerous in most places. In other words, we allow people to own such vehicles and we leave it up to the individuals to obey the law, only punishing those who don't obey the speed limit.

Most Americans, certainly most firearm owners, feel the same way about firearms. We believe that everyone should be able to own pretty much any kind of firearm they desire, until they demonstrate that they are not to be trusted with that right. We very much resent the concept that everyone should be assumed to be a potential criminal and thus their ability to own firearms be compromised based on that assumption.

Most firearm owners would feel this way regardless of how many crimes were committed using firearms, but when you consider how few crimes are committed with them given the vast number of them in circulation, we become even less tolerant of suggestions of restrictions on law-abiding people.

Do you believe that America should have stronger gun control laws? Why?

No. I believe that the laws are restrictive enough as they are. The only thing I would support would be an opt-out licensing system, but for that concession I would demand the right to buy firearms through the mail without using an FFL middle man.

Should America introduce a strict firearm licensing law like Australia & England?

No. By itself, licensing achieves nothing positive. Giving the government a list of all firearm owners does nothing to prevent a licensed firearm owner from committing a crime with his licensed firearm. It is possible that it could limit access to firearms by ineligible people, since they could not legally buy firearms without a license. But the tradeoff is that the government has a list of all firearm owners, which directly undermines the intent of the second amendment.

I would support an opt-out licensing system similar to what Illinois has, but as an opt-out system, rather than opt-in. Everyone would be issued an FOID when they applied for a drivers' license or state-issued ID, unless they opted out.

Do you believe that by restricting the gun laws it would reduce the crime rate? Why?

No. Today the places in the United States with the highest crime rates are the places with the most strict gun laws.

Should NFA weapons such as machine guns, 50.cal weapons, assault rifles etc., be completely banned throughout America? Why?

Machine guns are effectively banned today. Yes, it is legal to buy a transferable, pre-1986 machine gun, but prices start at around $10,000. They are out of the price range of all but dedicated collectors.

Since virtually no crimes are committed with 50 caliber weapons nor rifles of any kind, let alone assault rifles, I would not support banning them. According to the FBI UCR, about twice as many people are killed every year using hands and feet than all rifles combined. And 50 caliber rifles start at around $5000, making them not very popular as a choice for criminal use.

Instead of each state having its own gun laws, should there just be one federal law? Why?

As long as it was pro-firearm, I would support a single federal set of laws concerning firearm ownership.

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MicaelS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-11 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Great post, my opinions almost exactly. n/t
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tortoise1956 Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. Hey!
I love my golf clubs MUCH more than my guns...:crazy:
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DWC Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-11 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. More (legal) guns equal less crime
is the best answer yet.

I fully support every one of Mr. Pratt's responses with special emphasis on "more (legal) guns wqual less crime."

Semper Fi,
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-11 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
11. I generally agree with Pratt's answers...
though I am not convinced that more guns (even "legal" ones) causes less crime. There is not enough evidence for that social phenomenon. But the right of self-defense is not in itself social policy.
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-11 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. Just call it our love affair with Freedom. n/t
Edited on Wed Sep-28-11 03:16 PM by ileus
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gravity556 Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-11 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #12
24. Exactly. Our love of firearms began when we told King George
to go fuck himself and then kicked the Brits the fuck out. Austrailia was a Brit prison colony, and Canada still pays face to the Queen. And disarming the public has prefaced genocides. Pretty tough to send folks to the Gulag if they can fight back. You think North Korea allows its subjects (prisoners?) to own firearms?

Was it Mao that said "Political power grows from the barrel of a gun"? Right around the "great leap forward", I think. When dissidents and intelligensia were rounded up and executed.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-11 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
13. Given a choice I would rather live in a nation that trusts ...
honest and responsible citizens and allows them to own firearms than one who distrusts its citizens and does everything it can to stop firearm ownership.

Others have a different view and that is their right.



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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-11 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
14. and we care what the prat from Gun Owners of America thinks ... why?
Why is this here? Why are we discussing what some right-wing asshole has to say about anything?

I did get my evening's chuckle though.

I personally conducted an unscientific survey of Christian teenagers a couple of years ago and uncovered some disturbing results:

* A third of the students did not know that gun control policies around the world over the last 100 years have endangered people’s lives and, in some cases, paved the way for genocide.

* Almost 40 percent did not know that guns are used far more often in the United States to save life than to take life.

* And a whopping 90 percent did not know that the British effort on April 19, 1775 to steal the colonists’ guns (a.k.a., gun control) was the immediate event which precipitated the shots fired at Lexington.


Well, a score of two out of three (I neither know nor care about the third one) on the crap-o-meter ain't bad!
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-11 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. We're actually discussing what WE think of the questions the Aussie kid asked.
I'm never quite sure what YOU'RE discussing.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. You're in good company... n/t
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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Who cares what Aussies, the British, Japanese, Canadians, etc...
think about American gun control laws and or firearms ownership?

Their opinions and are equally worthless, unimportant, laughable and should be dismissed as far as I'm concerned.
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. ...and Italians.
Don't forget the Italians with their hate of American black rifles.
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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. They'a lovers...
not'a rude'a toters.

:-)
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Walk away Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. So Christian teenagers are stupid?
Maybe so ...but did you know that gun control policies around the world over the last 100 years have saved people’s lives and, in some cases, protected people from genocide?

The majority of lives saved with guns in this country are saved by law officers and the military?

That stealing guns is not actually gun control, it is stealing?

I still think Christian teenagers are a deluded bunch of sheep!
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
22. Umm, .50 caliber weapons are *NOT* restricted by the NFA.
Edited on Fri Sep-30-11 09:51 PM by benEzra
.50 caliber is the upper bound of allowed NFA Title 1 (e.g., unrestricted) calibers.

Weapons over .50 caliber, on the other hand, are restricted as Destructive Devices under the Title 2 provisions of the NFA, except for a few very traditional over-.50's---.69 and .73 caliber shotguns, .577 to .700 caliber hunting rifles, and so on.

Also, it's hard to tell whether the OP is actually talking about NFA Title 2 restricted "assault rifles" (which are "machineguns" and very, very tightly controlled) or civilian "assault weapons" (non-automatic Title 1 unrestricted rifles with modern styling).

I also wonder why they chose GOA to represent the pro-gun side of things, since they're rather fringe.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-11 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
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gejohnston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-11 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I am guessing that
the ban does not include some rich guy's double barrel Nitro Express rifles? Or am I just that cynical?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-11 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
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