PITBULLS IN THE NEWS - MARCH 24, 2004

[DBoon]

The following article analyzes canine agression in a respectable, even-handed fashion, looking at causes in terms of the dog itself, the owner, and the victim:

http://www.fataldogattacks.com/

Quoting:

The problem exists not within the breed of dog, but rather within the owners that fail to control, supervise, maintain and properly train the breed of dog they choose to keep.

Defend your right to protect your property with a canine! Remember, pitbulls don't kill - irresponsible owners do.

For many of us, firearms provide inadequate protection of our homestead. The crushing demands of a capitalist system that requires all adults to hold full time jobs leaves our homes open to intruders during working hours. Defend your right to keep guard dogs!

[StClone]

1. Oh YEAH

Do you make incongruities relevant throughout your existence?

[DBoon]

2. How did you guess?

Did you think I was serious about this?

[MrBenchley]

3. "firearms provide inadequate protection"

Seems like society over all would be safer if the RKBA crowd remained under their beds, sucking their thumbs and whimpering among the dustbunnies.

We'd certainly be spared some lame-ass rhetoric...

[Superfly]

4. Just like those dustbunnies

who carjacked me and broke into my home...

[CO Liberal]

5. Apples and Oranges Again

Pitbulls may be trained to attack through the actions of their owners, but they do have the ability to act on their own.

Guns do not act on their own - human interface is required.

If you're trying to use this as a justification for RKBA, it ain't gonna fly.

[DBoon]

6. RKBA?

In addition to being in a silly mood, I do think some of the arguments revolving around firearms for home protection are flawed.

Many households have all adults in them fully employed.

Most home burglaries occur during daytime (working) hours.

Therefore owning firearms is a flawed method of self defense. Crook being opportunistic, will pick on unoccupied dwellings.

I have heard (can't verify it) that the right breed of dog, properly trained, can make a big difference here. A "rational" crook will avoid a home with an agressive looking German Shepard and seek easier pickings.

So assuming the right to own firearms for self defense is valid (and it may not be), why shouldn't I claim the right to own dogs for self defense?

I'm also making a case that the RKBA argument for home defense is flawed, and does not reflect the reality of how many Americans organize their life, and of how burglars actually operate.

[CO Liberal]

7. Hmmmm....

Let's say that a regular handgun is equivalent to a German Shepherd, and an AK-47 is equivalent to a pit bull.

DOes that help?

[DBoon]

9. My pitbull respectfully disagrees

n/t

[Superfly]

8. Sure...if you leave your gun at home with you while you're at

work...how can you use a gun to defend yourself. That's why shall-issue CCW is a good idea in the entire US.

[DBoon]

10. If you take your gun to work with you

How can you use it to protect your home?

[Superfly]

11. Say it with me now...."SELF-Defense"

[DBoon]

12. But the risk from having my home cleaned out

during the day is much greater than the risk of me being attacked at work.

So the protection is against the wrong threat.

[Superfly]

13. Whatever works for you, man...

I'm sure you feel that citizens with no prior convictions or history of mental illness should be free to make the choice of the method they wish to defend themselves, their loved ones, or their property, whether that be a firearm or a dog with a angry disposition.

[pnb]

20. You act as if you can only protect one or the other

Personally, I think protecting BOTH is the best idea...

[CO Liberal]

14. Conversely....

...if you leave your gun at home while you're at work, how can you blow away your co-worker who piseed you off? Or your boss who fired you?

That's why shall-issue CCW is a bad idea in the entire US.

[Superfly]

15. Now, now, CO...you didn't need to interject that hyperbole...

it added absolutely zilch to the conversation at hand.

[CO Liberal]

16. Whassamatter, Superfly????

Too close to what happens all too often across this country every year????

[Romulus]

18. not by CCW holders it doesn't

To answer the question . . .

"Too close to what happens all too often across this country every year????"


Remember, we need gun licensing to be sure that firearms owners can be trusted with their firearms, but if they are licensed to have firearms, then they can't be trusted. :freak:

[CO Liberal]

22. But You Can't Say It Never Will

And with more and more states stupidly going "shall-issue", the chances of it happening keep getting better and better.

[MrBenchley]

23. And in fact, it becomes ever more likely....

[Superfly]

25. And, as I've shown...

firearms crime is and has been on the decrease since 1993.

[CO Liberal]

31. But People Are Still Dying From Gunshots

Remember that.

[Superfly]

32. Ho-kay....

whatever the hell that means.

[RoeBear]

26. And YOU can't say that the converse won't happen either...

....that a permit holder might be able to protect himself from an employee gone bad.

[CO Liberal]

29. With The Possibility....

...of a stray bullet killing an innocent bystander.

[Superfly]

30. Also with the possibility of Bigfoot

swooping in and making off with the Mayor's daughter. :shrug:

[CO Liberal]

36. Bystander Injuries...

...are far more common (and likely) than Bigfoot sightings.

[Superfly]

37. Not according to what you wrote a few weeks ago...

I will hope you recall the now *in*famous (You mean more than famous? - 3Amigos) "Bigfoot Gambit"...

[CO Liberal]

38. This is What I Wrote a Few Weeks Ago

In response to someone who claimed that the gunshow loophole did not exist:

*****

Subject: I Suppose You Doubt The Existence of Bigfoot As Well

Message: Even though there is ample proof of its being. The same way that there is more than ample evidence of a gun show loophole.

*****

So what the hell does THAT have to do with anything?

:shrug:

(BTW, for the record, I made that post a few days after my most recent motor vehicle accident, and was taking a LOT of pain-killers.)

[Superfly]

39. Yeah...blame it on drugs...

Rush, is that you?

(Just ribbing you, CO ;-) )

[CO Liberal]

40. Right Now, a Ribbing Might Help

It would take my mind off the back pain......

[RoeBear]

43. GOOD ONE!

Bwa haa haa!

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pnb]

21. You can do like the postal workers do...

...go back home, get your piece and THEN kill whoever you want. Although, if you are going to kill someone, I somehow wonder if you are concerned about a carry permit...

Maybe that's just me.

[Romulus]

24. exact-a-mundo (eom)

[MrBenchley]

27. Yeah, let's make it much more convenient for workplace shooters...

I swear, half of these RKBA arguments read like parodies....

[pnb]

34. How about convenience for the potential work place victims

On the off chance some one were to show up at my job with a firearm, my being allowed to have one also could be of great help.

Speaking of parodies BTW, it would seem your contention that making it a bit incovenient would stop it.

[MrBenchley]

35. How is it convenient

for them to fret about a guy toting a gun around the office?

[pnb]

41. Who says they'd be fretting about it?

Another assumption?

[MrBenchley]

42. LOL!

And one that seems right on the money, too.....

[Liberal Classic]

44. Doesn't this make dogs more dangerous than hand-held weapons?

The pistol in my nightstand drawer isn't going to shoot someone of its own accord.

Dogs on the other hand can be dangerous of their own violition.

Doesn't this makes dogs more dangerous than hand-held weapons such as knives and guns?

Please not I am not attempting to justify my ownership of a pistol to you, but I have heard this line of reasoning from people who believe all American Pit Bulls and Staffordshire Terriers should be euthanized, or at the very least sterilized.

Would you support an eradication campaign aimed at Pit Bulls, Staffordshire terriers, or dangerous large-breeds based on the grounds public saftey?

If not, would you support government screening of any dog owner with pets weighing more than 50 lbs?

How about tax-funded dog turn-in programs where you can surrender your large-breed dog to the authorities with no questions asked?

End the Pit Bull Bloodbath. Remember, if it saves one life.

[RamblingRose]

17. Not really sure of your point, but my neighbors 3 pit bulls got out and

confronted me at my mailbox. They were jumping on me and growling, and I froze in fear. I yelled many times for help, afraid to move. Another neighbor came out with his gun right as I had managed to get inside the house and call animal control. Animal control came out and asked if I knew who they belonged to. He called the police for back up, and they issued the owners 3 citations. They asked if I wanted to press charges since it was obvious the dogs had jumped on me and scratched me. As this was a neighbor, I said no.

"allowing a toddler to wander off to a chained dog is more of a critical factor in a fatal dog attack than which breed of dog is at the end of the chain"

All I could think of is what if it had been my 4 year old daughter outside playing. She would have tried to run away, possibly putting her in greater harm. Even if they had no intention of attacking her, them knocking her down and jumping on her would cause severe injury.

Part of the problem with these dogs, and others, is the constant in-breeding, trying to keep the animals purebreds.

Even the best of owners cannot always prevent their dogs from occassionaly getting out of a fenced yard or a house. And even if the dog is friendly, a 100 pound dog is no match for a 30 pound 4 year old.

[NorthernSpy]

28. dangerous dogs

I'm glad you weren't badly hurt, RamblingRose. And I'm glad that your other neighbor would have been able to save your life with his gun, had it proved necessary.

Are you sure you don't want to press charges? Dogs that eventually kill or mutilate a person frequently have a history of marauding and aggression, and the people who own these animals typically have their own history of disregard for other people's safety and a consistent refusal to take responsibility for their dogs. Has the pitbull-owning neighbor apologized to you yet?

I must say, what you've told us makes me feel pretty uneasy. Do you have any way of knowing what specific changes your neighbor will make to prevent his pitbulls from ever getting lose again? Unfortunately, until s/he can guarantee that these dogs are securely confined, your family really is threatened -- especially your daughter, since children are the main victims of dangerous dogs.


http://www.dogbitelaw.com/ is the best resource on this issue that I know of. Forewarned is fore-armed. It's a big site with a lot of helpful information. I hope you never need it.


Mary

[TX-RAT]

33. Glad your OK

Last year a 3 year old girl wandered into her neighbors yard and was mauled to death by a pit bull on a chain. Devastated this small town.