Shooting, the safest sport.

[Atypical Liberal]

[chrisa]

1. Nitpick - How about when the marksmen go home, and they or their

family members are killed by the gun?

I'm not anti-gun, but I don't think your statistic is relevant for a pro-gun argument.

[PavePusher]

13. If you've got some stats on those incidents by competetive shooters.....

please, bring'em on.

Good luck with that.

[chrisa]

16. I don't and don't feel like looking for them.

It's just not a good pro-gun argument for the reason I said above.

[PavePusher]

37. So, accuse by insinuation.....

refuse to provide evidence, declare victory and move on....

typical of gun restrictionists, but very poor tactic. You'd be kicked off any debate team in high school for that one.

[chrisa]

64. Nope. Wrong on all accounts.

I'm not a gun restrictionist by a long shot.

The OP's argument is not very good. Gun safety at shooting ranges was never even part of the pro-gun vs. anti-gun debate, and doesn't mean anything in general.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

42. Hm.....

So you don't know if your accusation carries any weight, and you cannot be bothered to cure your ignorance, but somehow believe you had some valid reason to make the claim anyway.


Now, I don't know how things work in your neck of the woods, but 'round here, we call that just pure bullshit. Your mileage may vary - hell, for all I know, that is considered intelligent debate on your planet.

[chrisa]

66. The OP's argument is not a good argument. Sorry.

Don't read into it any more than that

[TheWraith]

96. The only poor argument here is yours. Or it would be, if you had an argument...

... rather than some random shit you imagined.

[Remmah2]

61. I did a little Googling.

I googled the ten most dangerous sports and the ten most dangerous professions. The lists that came up, none of them involved firearms.

[chrisa]

67. Of course target shooting is going to be safe -

Those people are all familiar with their guns. There there's 10 others who aren't and blow their heads off, or get other people killed.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

69. Actual proof of this claim?

You're claiming for every one target shooter there are 10 others gun owners who are unsafe. I've got to see proof of this.

Remember, suicide is not a misuse of a firearm - it is suicide. It would happen with or without a gun.

Killing other people has been illegal since Cain decided Abel needed his head bashed in. Doesn't quite stop it.

There are less than 1000 accidental deaths from shooting annually. In a nation of 310million, that isn't a number worth noting, let alone worthy of serious concern.

So, if you've got proof to somehow demonstrate that there are 10 utterly irresponsible gun owners or criminals for every person who safely shoots targets, by all means, show us. Otherwise, you're just blathering out of your nether regions.




(This is really the point at which you would do well to admit you had no idea what you were talking about and just popped off without thinking. Trying to defend a totally indefensible position is only going to make you look even more foolish.)

[TheWraith]

95. Actually no, accidental deaths from firearms are exceedingly rare.

In the US, literally at odds of half a million to one or so. There are more deaths from people accidentally poisoning themselves with houshold cleaners.

[SteveM]

71. "How about," you say. Got any data which shows some kind of trend

in this direction. Please note that death by firearm has been on the decline in this country for several years (choose your method of death). And death on the shooting range is a very rare occurrence.

You seem to have a problem with these hard facts, though not with tossing out some speculation of your own.

[truebrit71]

2. Yeah, because everytime you get on your bike, you can accidentally slaughter your entire family...

...Unrec for false equivalency...

Don't get me wrong, it's tons of fun...but cycling it ain't...

[We_Have_A_Problem]

43. You have actual valid data....

...to support your accidental family slaughter by a competitive shooter? No? You're just pulling shit out of your ass then? Thought so.

Come back to the discussion when you actually have something intelligent to add.

By the way - cycling isn't fun to many people.

[truebrit71]

45. ...more false equivalency...

:rofl:

Of the number of family shootings, how many involved guns, and how many involved bicycles?

Get back to me when you have those numbers, yes?

[We_Have_A_Problem]

48. The one with false equivalency is you.

Unless you have actual data to support your claim, there is no reason to believe participants in the shooting sports kill their families. It is pure bullshit and you know it.

Hey - if it makes you happy to make false claims and believe in them, go for it. Just do so knowing that you're being stupid.

[truebrit71]

59. Okay...let's try the google shall we..??

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30109090/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/mom-kills-son-then-self-shooting-range/

Does that count, or not?

[We_Have_A_Problem]

62. Nope it doesnt.

She wasn't engaged in the shooting sports. She was an insane woman, previously committed, who should have never been able to rent a firearm.

Nice try though. However, if all you have is one barely related event from 2-1/2 years ago, I think even you have to recognize that your theory doesn't hold water.

Thanks for playing though. It is always a good laugh to see the extent to which an anti will go to attempt to justify their inane arguments.

[Remmah2]

63. Technically that's a single story. Not data or a statistic.

Not even a minority, more like an isolated anomaly. Not much of a basis for an argument or discussion.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

65. I would go so far as to say....

...if that is all he can show, it proves the point that shooting sports are safe.

[SteveM]

73. So involved in shooting sports, she rented a gun? Nope. No count. nt

[Remmah2]

57. Have bicycles ever stopped rape, robbery, home invasion or assault?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_TLNCcju9Yyw/TFhbaIF7N4I/AAAAAAAABXU/f37AAgaS7f0/s1600/Swedish+milit%C3%A4rcykel+Gun+Rack.jpg

[SteveM]

72. Do you have data on people who go to ranges, then slaughter families? nt

[MineralMan]

3. How about resizing that graphic to some sort of reasonable size.

It's rude to post huge graphics on DU.

[Atypical Liberal]

10. I don't know how.

I would, but I don't know how.

[MineralMan]

11. Load it into a graphics program, resize it, then upload it

to wherever you have it now.

DU doesn't recognize the size parameters when you just put a url in here. When you post a hot-linked graphic, you should always preview the post before posting it. If it's too large, use any graphics program to resize it, then upload it to wherever you're hosting these things. If you're not hosting the graphics yourself, don't hotlink to them if they're too large.

The key to the whole thing is to use the preview button when you post before putting it on DU.

[Atypical Liberal]

15. It was already in the wild from Reddit.

I posted it as I found it.

[MineralMan]

18. OK, Then it didn't work. The original image URL contains

size parameters that DU can't use. What happens is that the image appears at full size, which is far too large for readers to see the entire image at once. If you use the Preview button, you'll see that before you post the image. You can probably find a smaller version hosted somewhere else on Google Images.

The issue is that it's rude to post huge images. It's also especially annoying for people using dial up or slower broadband systems. It's just good manners to check your post with the handy preview tool before posting. If you care, you'll do that on future posts. If you don't you won't.

One other note: Hotlinking is always risky. Some sites play a trick on you when you do that. Instead of the image you think you're posting, the site will display an obscene image, like goatse (Warning: please don't search for it). Previewing will almost always let you see that, so you don't embarrass yourself.

[Atypical Liberal]

23. I saw it when I posted it.

What happens is that the image appears at full size, which is far too large for readers to see the entire image at once. If you use the Preview button, you'll see that before you post the image. You can probably find a smaller version hosted somewhere else on Google Images.

I saw that it was huge when I posted it. Thought about downloading it, resizing it, and re-uploading it, but figured it was much easier for people to just right click and view image.

The issue is that it's rude to post huge images. It's also especially annoying for people using dial up or slower broadband systems. It's just good manners to check your post with the handy preview tool before posting. If you care, you'll do that on future posts. If you don't you won't.

I didn't. :)

One other note: Hotlinking is always risky. Some sites play a trick on you when you do that. Instead of the image you think you're posting, the site will display an obscene image, like goatse (Warning: please don't search for it). Previewing will almost always let you see that, so you don't embarrass yourself.

I am well aware of the problems with hotlinking. Imgur is intended for this use.

[krispos42]

30. Here's a resized one

Next time, just open it up in something like Paint and use the "Resize" or "Stretch/Skew" feature to shrink it (depending on Windows version). Then save it, and *bam* you're done.

[Riftaxe]

33. 4-H is an notorious right wing organization

That teaches how to torture and enslave animals, not a reputable source!

*or at least, I imagine that is how the prohibitionists will spin it.

[Remmah2]

39. Not as bad as the Boy Scouts. nt

nt

[ret5hd]

4. I think your point would be clearer if you used a larger pic.

[thereismore]

21. It's big enough to see the dirty nails of that guy. Yuck. nt

[PavePusher]

55. Shooting isn't exactly a white-glove sport.

Or, could be he does some manual labor for a living, or otherwise works with his hands.

My hands look like that frequently on the weekends. And during the week to, come to think...

[ZombieHorde]

5. Does anyone here have a really large photo of a man's hand? nt

[ileus]

6. My son come to me yesterday evening asking to go shooting...

his very words "Dad let's go out back and shoot, we're missing valuable family time." I couldn't help but gather up the 22 and his BB gun and go out and shoot.

For me shooting and hunting have been 35 years of fun, and I'm trying to pass that down to my children. It took a while to get the kids to understand why I carry a SD firearm but I believe they grasp it pretty good now.

The self defense firearm is just another tool in our life-safety tool box. Way too many people disrespect firearms and the second, it's a damn shame.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

7. You've raped my margins... (n/t)

[dtexdem]

8. Getting shot: not the safest sport.

Shooting at police -- not at all a safe sport.

Living in a community flooded by guns, including assault rifles: not a safe sport nor a safe spot.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

9. Getting shot and shooting police aren't "organized sports"

but if they were... you are correct in that would be "unsafe sports"

[PavePusher]

14. Congrats!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

[Riftaxe]

34. Better stay out of rural towns

then, and stay some place save like Detroit metro.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

44. Oddly....

NOTHING you presented has a damn thing to do with the shooting sports! Yet MORE unsubstantiated and utterly unrelated bullshit.

Wow - you really don't have a thing to present to support your side do you?

[Ready4Change]

47. Consider Baseball.

Is the sport of Baseball to be blamed whenever a bat is used to beat someone? Billiards blamed when a cue is used in a bar fight? Soccer blamed when someone is kicked while on the ground?

Perhaps American football is the best. I can't recall anyone being brutalized by gangs of football wielding miscreants.

[beevul]

51. What community would that be?

You know, the kind "flooded by guns, including assault rifles".

I bet you can't name even one.

[PavePusher]

54. Can you specify some of these "assault rifles" for us, please?

I need to know which of mine I should get rid of....

[Remmah2]

58. Post of the century.

[oneshooter]

93. So you concider shooting at cops, Getting shot, and

"Living in a community flooded by guns, including assault rifles: not a safe sport nor a safe spot. as "sports"

Either you are a simpelton, or close to being one.

[geckosfeet]

12. How about resizing the image next time ace?

[Atypical Liberal]

17. Posted it as I found it.

You can always right-click on the image and choose "view image". Your browser will re-size it for you.

[MineralMan]

20. Or, you could do the job yourself and save other DUers

the trouble, if you cared to.

[thereismore]

22. Putting on ignore for condescention. nt

[Atypical Liberal]

24. Oh no!

The horrors!

[geckosfeet]

27. Yeah. I would ignore it altogether except I already clicked the link.

It's just a little web etiquette.

If you expect people to visit your site and tell their friends and relatives, don't force some sappy audio file of your fist date song down across their banwidth, and take 30 seconds to resize your images.

[belcffub]

19. it's nice being able to

count the hairs on his hand :)

[spin]

29. True, but his hand is almost bald. (n/t)

[nichomachus]

25. Unless, of course, you're shooting with Dick Cheney

[iverglas]

26. now forgive me if I question the 4-H clubs' math

but -- exactly how is this rate calculated?

Is it based on the entire population of the country? the population of participants in the sport? the number of person-hours spent on the sport in a year? the number of incidents of participation in the sport? Are they talking about everyone in the country who does something that qualifies as "shooting sport" (and "cycling" and "football")? or just children and young people who engage in organized activities in a school or youth club?

Do forgive me if I actually think that the 4-H clubs have not really figured out a meaningful way to calculate an injury rate at all.

Not that I'd particularly care if they did, especially if they were comparing populations consisting of youth participants in organized activities under the aegis of a school or voluntary organization.

If football involved individuals throwing footballs from a standing position at a target, now then you might have the starting point for a comparison ...

Anyway, I've already said football should be banned! For so many reasons ...

[spin]

28. I think soccer should be banned because it is so dammed boring ...

but we had that discussion before.

[ileus]

32. I agree Soccer blows....now real football now there's a great sport.

[truebrit71]

46. Nope. that blows even more...four 15 minute quarters that take 3 hours to complete....

...bloody stupid....

Now RUGBY on the other hand, THAT is a great sport...

[Katya Mullethov]

60. Do they employ crampons , bulls , or explosif engines

in this .....how you say .....rugby ?

[iverglas]

99. "boring"

was one of my main reasons for advocating that North American football be banned. ;)

The noise it makes when it's on my television is actually the primary one. I've remarked that vuvuzelas were not as bad.

Here it is Thanksgiving weekend in Canada, prime sports-watching time and all, and Premier League seems to have gone on foreign vacation ...

[Katya Mullethov]

31. Even motocross is safer than football

The fat bastards run into each other on purpose .

[mistertrickster]

35. Mossberg . . . I'd recognize that bolt end anywhere . . .

Looks to be a .22

[safeinOhio]

36. Only a small % of US owned guns

are used in the sport of marksmanship.

[Paladin]

38. And Since When Do DU Gun Enthusiasts Give A Shit.......

....about ANY activity involving a wood-stocked, bolt action .22 rifle? Where's the tactical plastic hardware in that photo? Where's the tactical 30-round extended magazine? Where's the tactical flash suppressor? Since when do you guys get horny for any activity involving a classically non-tactical "Fudd" firearm? Laughable....

[Glassunion]

40. Stay classy!

:7

[friendly_iconoclast]

68. The mask does tend to slip when they get frustrated, doesn't it?

And they've been frustrated a lot, lately...

[Glassunion]

70. .

PEACE! :hippie:

[-..__...]

41. You have a problem with diversity?

[We_Have_A_Problem]

49. Frequently.

I very much enjoy shooting a bolt-action .22. I find it to be good cheap fun. My 7 year old daughter enjoys the hell out of it too.

None of us get "horny" over guns. That is a fantasy you've concocted in your own mind. Perhaps you are getting aroused over firearms and you project your guilty pleasure onto others?

[jmg257]

50. A Springfield Armory M1922 is one of my favorites.

A real classic .22 bolt action target rifle.

Goes along great with the M1903 & M1917, and the Garands of course

None of 'em get me horny, but I am very happy to own & shoot them. (Actually don't get horny for any activity that doesn't involve a woman (or 2) - been like that for most of my life ;)).

Also like CZ line of Bolt Action .22s - their 452s are great for the money.

[beevul]

52. Why would it matter?

Spit it out paladin, you know you want to.

[PavePusher]

53. Assumptions, much? n/t

[ileus]

56. I have 3, two bolts, one 10/22...

My father and brother have 3000 bucks each wrapped up in their bolt 22's (ant they have 4 total)

Lot's and Lot's of people still shoot bench, but there's also 3 gun and cowboy action series that draw huge numbers of people to the sport of competition shooting. Of course that goes without saying all the shotgun sports that are out there.


I almost all my firearm are fudd types...I haven't even invested in a tactical shotgun yet.

[SteveM]

74. Well, YOU must "give a shit" since you are here, commenting...

Actually, a .22 is a good rifle to practice when improving your aim with more powerful calibers. Deer hunters, for example, may burn through 50 rounds or more of -2$ ammo before taking up the .270 and sighting in with ammo which is many times more expensive. Same thing for people who hunt with .44 magnums and the like. Blow through a box of .22s in your Ruger, then boom away with the big revolver. I guess you have never heard of that.

[spin]

76. I have a bolt action .22 cal Mosberg target rifle ...

that's a real tack driver.

It's a lot of fun to take it to the range and shoot at 50 yard paper targets. Very inexpensive fun.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[-..__...]

77. Check out the "International Sniper Competition"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZixScUP6acQ&feature=related

Sounds like a real test of skills, endurance and motivation to win.

I'd like to see them open it up more for civilian involvement and participation.

Looks like it could be fun.

[Hoyt]

82. Apparently you don't compete in that sport? Here's a shooter "athlete" for ya.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRt_xBl7dLU&feature=related

Olympic material I tell ya.

[-..__...]

91. Here's another one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giSaNiQ-Wb4

[We_Have_A_Problem]

78. I was unaware...

...the Olympic committee was adding a stock car driving event or expanding the wrestling events to include WWE style "pro wrestling".

I assure you, it is a sport, and it has nothing to do with shooting humans. Even if it did, shooting people isn't always a bad thing as you have been informed countless times in the past.

[Hoyt]

83. Most folks here do their "sport" shooting at silhouette targets -- about as athletic as Curling.

Besides, olympic events don't even use the calibers you guys love -- except maybe for some skeet shooting.

[friendly_iconoclast]

87. Using dumbed out bullets and red dot sights, amirite?

Staples is having a "buy one, get one" special on rubber bands- Time to stock up on ammunition, Hoyt...

[spin]

79. Just exactly what shooting sport did you participate in? ...

It doesn't sound like you ever tried small bore rifle competition, bullseye pistol competition or metallic silhouette shooting.

Such competition involves paper targets that look like this:





or metallic targets that look like these:

[friendly_iconoclast]

81. Nor air rifle or pistol, as they use the same style targets.

Knowing our interlocutor, it probably involved this sort of 'firearm':

[Hoyt]

86. Actually I did. Favorite pistol at the time was a Hi Standard 103 Citation.

Fortunately grew out of it before moss grew on my feet.

[spin]

88. What type of targets did you shoot at?

If you shot at targets like this, you could indeed say that you were practicing to shoot humans:



If you were shooting at targets like this, you were target shooting:



Hi Standard did make some great target quality firearms. I never owned one but I had close friends who did.

I have owned several Ruger Mark I and Mark II target pistols and a S&W Model 41.

[Hoyt]

89. Shooting targets that resemble people is a little sick, don't you think?

S&W 41 is nice. I'm old fashioned and used Model 25s .38 and .45. But, again, that was a long time ago before I saw big holes in people. Changed my view of guns in our society.

[spin]

90. No, I don't consider shooting targets that resemble people sick ...

but I legally carry a concealed firearm and I don't intend to use it for target practice if someone attacks me with the intention of severely hurting or killing me.

I use both bullseye targets and silhouette targets at the range.

From your post, I'm not sure that you understand that the S&W Model 41 is a .22 cal target pistol. It doesn't put big holes in people.



The S&W Model 25 is a revolver and the Model 25-2 was a .45 acp revolver widely used in NRA bullseye competition over 50 years ago. It can put big holes in people but it was primarily designed for target shooting. The Model 25-5 shoots the .45 Colt round (sometimes called the .45 Long Colt) and was more of a hunting or home defense weapon than a target firearm.


S&W Model 25-2

I have owned all three of the above weapons.

The S&W Model 38 was a .38 caliber J-frame snub nosed revolver known as the Bodyguard and the Model 45 was a K -frame .22 caliber revolver known as the 22 Military and Police that was discontinued in 1965.

Ref: http://www.handloads.com/misc/Smith.Model.Changes.asp

In my opinion, the Smith and Wesson model numbering system is confusing as hell.

[jmg257]

92. Not if you are practicing shooting people, the more realistic the better.

B-25s at the least...pretty much a standard for alot of handgun shooting.

Training, qualifying...center mass and all that. A little large, but still a good choice.

[oneshooter]

94. So have you turned them in to the Police for destruction? n/t

[We_Have_A_Problem]

101. Not at all.

Especially if you are practicing with a self defense firearm.

After all, bad guys don't look like a round target with an X in the middle.

[friendly_iconoclast]

97. Did you destroy it after you quit, or did you pull a Wehrner Von Braun and sell it?

As in: "I shoot ze rockets in ze air, zhey fall to Earth I know not where..."

(With apologies to Tom Lehrer)

[jmg257]

84. Only with handguns...not .22 bolt actions. nt

[Remmah2]

80. Does everyone get the big picture? nt

nt

[jmg257]

85. Ha! I get it! :)

[DainBramaged]

98. At lest you could learn to resize images, oh and this guy disagrees with you all

[Straw Man]

100. What that putz is doing has nothing to do with sport.

It's self-defense training. Not an Olympic event, last time I looked.

But thanks for playing.