Arizona sheriffs call for independent counsel investigation of "Fast and Furious."

[SteveM]

Within the hour:

"Ten of Arizona's 15 sheriffs joined in the call for an independent counsel probe. The sheriffs, including Democrats and Republicans, said they were motivated by public-safety concerns, not political partisanship.

"'I feel like we've been betrayed by our government,' said Tom Sheahan, sheriff of Mohave County.

"'We're in a fight for our country, our constitution and for our very lives,' added Larry Dever, sheriff of Cochise County. 'Who really is responsible for helping to arm the people we are fighting every day on the border?'"

In addition,

"Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu said the sting operation, which allowed an estimated 2,000 firearms to reach narcotics cartels in Mexico, was a betrayal that should lead to the removal of Attorney General Eric Holder and possible criminal charges against those responsible."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/ariz-sheriffs-seek-probe-gun-case/story?id=14694836&page=2

[rfranklin]

1. I call for an investigation of Arizona sheriffs...

and if found guilty they should have to wear pink panties.

[SteveM]

2. Including the Democrats? nt

[oneshooter]

4. And if found innocent then you should be wearing the pink panties. n/t

[rl6214]

5. Investigation for what?

I don't think they were the ones that allowed guns into the hands of criminals and then across the border into Mexico.

[spin]

6. So you have no problem with an agency of our government ...

allowing lethal firearms to "walk" into the hands of smugglers who will deliver those weapons to criminals in our nation and to drug cartels in Mexico.

I know that the Fast and Furious scandal occurred under a Democratic administration but while I am a Democrat I find it hard to defend any law enforcement agency that would knowingly allow firearms to be sold to people who would use them to injure and kill innocent victims.

In my opinion any Democrat or Republican and any person who values the right of civilians to own firearms as well as anyone who opposes or would greatly restrict that right should be outraged.

At a minimum we need to find out all the facts and stop such foolish activity from happening in the future. It is possible that more agencies than the ATF are involved. The Justice Department does appear to be involved in a cover up. If this is true, an independent council might be necessary to get to the bottom of this fiasco.

I should also point out that there are reports that a similar operation existed under the Bush administration named Wide Receiver.

MEXICO: News of another U.S. gun-tracking program stirs criticism
October 6, 2011

REPORTING FROM MEXICO CITY -- Mexican politicians and pundits reacted with anger to revelations this week that U.S. agents allowed guns to be smuggled into Mexico under a secret weapons-tracking program that preceded the current focus of controversy, called Operation Fast and Furious.

Commentators from across the political spectrum expressed criticism after The Times revealed this week that a Fast and Furious-style gun program under President George W. Bush allowed guns to "walk" across the border into Mexico during 2006 and 2007.

Both undercover programs were intended to track guns bought in the United States until they reached top cartel suspects, but instead many weapons were lost.

The controversy surrounding the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives has largely turned into a political struggle between Republicans and Democrats in Washington, but in Mexico it has played out amid declarations that U.S. policies and drug consumption are worsening the country's bloody drug war.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2011/10/mexico-wide-receiver-reaction-guns-weapons-left-right.html

The possibility of a cover up disturbs me as often the original activity that causes the cover up is not as serious as the cover up itself. It would be wise for the Obama administration to fully cooperate with the congressional investigation but I fear time is running out rapidly.

It's hard to find much humor in the fact that something our government allowed has resulted in the death or injury of one law enforcement agent in the United States and possibly several hundred innocent victims in Mexico.

Mexico still waiting for answers on Fast and Furious gun program
Top Mexican officials say the U.S. kept them in the dark. One official was stunned to learn that the cartel hit men who killed her brother had assault rifles from Fast and Furious in their arsenal.
By Ken Ellingwood, Richard A. Serrano and Tracy Wilkinson, Los Angeles Times


Marisela Morales, Mexico's attorney general, told The Times that she first learned about Fast and Furious from news reports. And to this day, she said, U.S. officials have not briefed her on the operation gone awry, nor have they apologized. (Jorge Dan Lopez / Reuters / June 7, 2011)

September 19, 2011, 5:00 p.m.

Reporting from Mexico City and Washington—
Last fall's slaying of Mario Gonzalez, the brother of a Mexican state prosecutor, shocked people on both sides of the border. Sensational news reports revealed that cartel hit men had tortured Gonzalez, and forced him to make a videotaped "confession" that his high-powered sister was on the take.

***snip***

Patricia Gonzalez, the top state prosecutor in Chihuahua at the time of her brother's 2010 kidnapping, noted that she had worked closely with U.S. officials for years and was stunned that she did not learn until many months later, through media reports, about the link between his death and Fast and Furious weapons.

"The basic ineptitude of these officials caused the death of my brother and surely thousands more victims," Gonzalez said.

Fast and Furious weapons have also been linked to other high-profile shootings. On May 24, a helicopter ferrying Mexican federal police during an operation in the western state of Michoacan was forced to land after bullets from a powerful Barrett .50-caliber rifle pierced its fuselage and armor-reinforced windshield. Three officers were wounded.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mexico-fast-furious-20110920,0,5544168.story

[gejohnston]

7. I would reserve that for only

one sheriff, the rest are guilt by association.

[bbinacan]

3. Not good. n/t

[spin]

8. Why. If an independent counsel is the only way to find out the facts ...

of how an operation by an agency of our government went so wrong, why would that be worse than allowing people in our government to cover the scandal up as we buried our heads in the sand.

While this scandal currently reflects badly on Eric Holder and the current administration, further investigation might reveal some very interesting information about the operation called Wide Receiver which predated Operation Fast and Furious and was a Bush era program.

Is it OK for our government to provide lethal firearms to criminals and drug cartels knowing that they will be used to injure and kill innocent victims both in Mexico and here in the United States? Perhaps our government never felt these firearms would be misused in our nation, but does that mean that our government doesn't value the lives of the citizens of our neighbor, Mexico?

[burf]

9. Has anyone seen any commentary

from the Brady bunch on any of the programs that are being reported on?

[ZombieHorde]

10. I don't blame them for being pissed. That was really fucked up. nt

[Dawson Leery]

11. Another right wing teakook who went insane after Obama was elected.

Babeu will NOT acknowledge that this same event occurred during Bush's tenure, yet when it happens under a Democrats watch, the skinheads go insane.

[friendly_iconoclast]

12. Babeau is only one of fifteen. Wide Receiver should be investigated as well

Got a little genetic fallacy going there, I see...

[rl6214]

13. Where does it say that he will not?

Or is it just that he has not?

[gravity556]

14. Are you inferring that Babeu is a skinhead?

From whence does this shocking information come? I trust you have actual cites and proof connecting him to skinhead groups-Aryan Brotherhood, Texas Syndicate, Hammerskins, you know, actual skinhead organizations. Otherwise, you're talking out of your ass, and I think a public apology might be in order.

And if it started under Bush and why didn't Obama kill it immediately. Like when he let the patriot act die or closed gitmo? Don't get me wrong-I want every mouthbreather who supported this operation staked out in the desert for the ants and the coyotes-particularly the shitheads who tried to use this as an excuse to tighten gun laws. False flag operations are just a nice way of saying treachery and malfeasance.

[SteveM]

15. So-o-o-o, do you support such an investigation? Take the A.G. at his word? nt

[Dawson Leery]

16. The investigation must also include all cases

where this tactic was used including during Bush's tenure.

[SteveM]

17. I agree. If it isn't made a part of the Committee's agenda, Democratic...

members should press for subpoenas to be issued.

[Dawson Leery]

18. If Issa pushed for subpoenas in the House, why can't Leahy do the same in the Senate?

[gejohnston]

19. for the same reason

if it were DEA, Leahy would be issuing subpoenas while Issa would be ignoring it. Of course, if it were a Republican administration, Issa would probably be ignoring it anyway.