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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 09:48 AM
Original message
Armed criminals run from armed clerk
Video at: http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2011/10/11/am-robbery-clerk-fight-back.cnn#/video/us/2011/10/11/am-robbery-clerk-fight-back.cnn

Showing once again the street criminals run away when the bullets start coming at them.

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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
1. How rude and impolite...
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. "a single event does not indicate trends"


"If you want to apply any generalization to any specified group you need a statistically significant sampling of events. You have cied just ONE event in a selected demographic of over 6 millions. A single data point cannot realize the generalization you are trying to make."
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Correct, but don't forget that there are an estimated 800K-2.5M defensive gun uses annually, (n/t)
Edited on Tue Oct-11-11 10:25 AM by OneTenthofOnePercent
The OP is just one illustration of potentially millions of incidents.
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. We just don't have any stats on
unreported illegal use of handguns by CCW holders that go unreported. I'm sure the other post I took your quote from might illustrate potential other incidents that go unreported too.

:shrug:
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We_Have_A_Problem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. I agree - one event does not.
However, as you have seen, there are many of these events in the news to demonstrate such things. FAR more than seem to support the opposite view.
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. We need a kings ruling on the subject...
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Challenge to you. Find some events of robbers who act like soldiers.
Edited on Tue Oct-11-11 11:07 AM by GreenStormCloud
A soldier has to take an objective in the face of enemy fire. Find some examples of a robber who is being shot at and who then continues with the robbery, braving defensive fire to accomplish his task. I won't hold my breath.

We have posted dozens of stories of criminals who run away (Unless incapacitated) when they are getting shot at. If you think that such behavior is rare and that street criminals will keep on coming when they are the target of gunfire then you should have an easy time finding such reports.
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Crooks on drugs fight like crazy people
Edited on Tue Oct-11-11 12:52 PM by safeinOhio
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Atypical Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. It's not intended to indicate a trend.
The point of posting such examples as this is not to indicate a trend.

It is to debunk the oft-heard assertion that armed citizens can never defend themselves from armed criminals, that they will always "get the drop on the victim", etc. etc.

This case, while anecdotal, serves to demonstrate that in fact armed citizens can prevail in the face of armed criminals.
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Once again, can you give a few examples of
"the oft-heard assertion that armed citizens can never defend themselves from armed criminals, that they will always "get the drop on the victim", etc. etc."

I've never heard anyone assert that. Because you say it is often heard, you should be able to produce 5 or 6 examples.

Of course armed citizens can prevail when faced by armed criminals, I don't think anyone would disagree with that statement. I believe, and I'm sure many others would, that many steps can be taken to reduce being a victim of an armed crime. If those steps were taken a firearm for personal protection would be used less. Also, many think that some laws are lacking in keeping handguns out of the hands criminals, while allowing law abiding citizens to own and use them for protection and sport.
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Atypical Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. I could, but I'll let you go do the searching.
Once again, can you give a few examples of "the oft-heard assertion that armed citizens can never defend themselves from armed criminals, that they will always "get the drop on the victim", etc. etc."

I've never heard anyone assert that. Because you say it is often heard, you should be able to produce 5 or 6 examples.


I could probably find 10 at least that insinuate this in a half an hour. But I'll leave that to you.

There have been countless times on this forum where people have insinuated that having a firearm is a waste of time when confronted with an armed criminal because they would always have the element of surprise.

If you don't remember this then you either haven't been here very long, haven't been paying attention, or have a selective memory.
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Yah right.
I looked and could not find it said here. Of course now you say "insinuated", which means what you heard that was never said.
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Atypical Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. It doesn't take a rocket scientist.
Yah right. I looked and could not find it said here.

Then you didn't look very hard.

Of course now you say "insinuated", which means what you heard that was never said.

I'm sure I can go find direct expressions of that sentiment, but there people on this forum who go out of their way to speak in innuendo, rather than directly state their position.
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. No problem
"I'm sure I can go find direct expressions of that sentiment" just do it.

"people on this forum who go out of their way to speak in innuendo" projection.
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Atypical Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. I tried.
"I'm sure I can go find direct expressions of that sentiment" just do it.

The problem is the search function just produces too many results. It would take me hours to go back and find the posts that I remember this sentiment being expressed in. If you believe that people here have not expressed the sentiment that carrying concealed weapons is useless because armed criminals will always have the drop on them, then you are free to believe that. I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you of the obvious.

"people on this forum who go out of their way to speak in innuendo" projection.

Nope. Interpretation.
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. That's ok
you've already wasted a lot of time.

:rofl:
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Atypical Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. That's a fact. n/t
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
7. What a wonderful society.
This is just great.
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one-eyed fat man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. You should just give them what they want.
They love their momma

They were turning their lives around

They disadvantaged and disenfranchised

They were stealing to feed their starving children

The clerk was just a stooge protecting corporate profits.

There was no reason for anyone to think they meant to hurt anyone, they only opened fire first and shot the unarmed clerk in the leg.

They are going to have to suffer the humiliation as their homeys poke fun at them for their undignified escape as surveillance footage is all over CNN and Youtube.
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Why do you hate America?
LOL.... :)
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. I didn't know that.
Edited on Tue Oct-11-11 08:24 PM by TheCowsCameHome
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
16. That cashier should have his head checked.
It is not sane to go through life being so afraid of your own shadow that you need to carry a gun. Other people have gone through their entire life without ever needing a gun. They don't live in fear.

He was more likely to shoot a van full of 3 year old children in a fit of road rage than to need it to protect his life. His life was in no danger at all. All he had to do was hand over the money instead of acting like judge, judy and executioner.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. "judge, judy and executioner"
Is that like Punch, Judy and the constable?

:)
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Hot Fuzz
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
23. they showed that on CBC news
Assuming it's the same one (won't load for me) ... wasn't sure why the CBC ran it; just "dumb USAmerican tricks", I guess.

For nearly 30 years, I've lived across a busy street and down a few doors from a 24-hour convenience store in a bad neighbourhood.

A clerk there told me a few years ago about somebody trying to hold him up. With a penknife, the keychain variety. The clerk laughed, told him to get lost, and called the cops.

Never in 30 years have I heard of a gun crime incident in this neighbourhood. Well, apart from back in the early 80s when the Italian wave of immigrants had mostly moved to the burbs, but the ethnic restaurants and such were still here and some violent members of that community had stuck around with them. A restaurant on the busy street several blocks in the other direction got shot up once, and there was a series of guy gets shot, somebody shoots the shooter a week later, somebody else shoots him ... but that was, like I say, 25 years ago.

For a while, the store and the nearby apartment building had private security patrolling the area, a practice we residents found quite obnoxious. Haven't seen them lately. They didn't have guns.

If you keep firearms, and handguns especially, out of the hands of yer run of the mill, common or garden, petty criminal, you just don't have these things happening on any scale that any ordinary person needs to even think about.


http://www.insidetoronto.com/article/72108

Mar 12, 2009
Arrests in spate of gas bar robberies
Three men rack up nearly 300 charges between them

Three Brampton teens are charged and a fourth suspect is on the run, all alleged to have used knives, meat cleavers and masks, in a 32-store spate of armed robberies described as one of the largest series in recent holdup squad history.


http://www.northumberlandnews.com/news/article/1220266--suspect-sought-in-port-hope-gas-bar-robbery-attempt

Oct 05, 2011 -
Suspect sought in Port Hope gas bar robbery attempt
PORT HOPE -- Port Hope Police Service asks the public's help in identifying the above suspect wanted in connection with a robbery at a Toronto Road gas bar on Tuesday, Oct. 4 around 11:30 p.m.

... The suspect allegedly entered the gas station brandishing a knife and motioned for the attendant to turn over the money, said Const. Payton. The suspect did not get any money, and fled, heading in a southerly direction, she said.


Aha, finally: a gun. ... Oops, no ...

http://www.durhamregion.com/news/crime/article/1080415--ajax-gas-bar-robbed-at-knife-point

Sep 12, 2011
Ajax gas bar robbed at knife point

AJAX -- An employee was threatened by a knife-wielding bandit during a robbery at an Ajax gas station Sunday night.

... The men were taken into police custody August 13 and charged with robbery with a firearm and using an imitation firearm for the commission of an offence in connection with the Petro 3000 hold-up.


And another dud:

http://www.insidetoronto.com/news/local/article/230507

Dec 11, 2009
Robbery suspect apprehended following gas bar robbery

A 39-year-old man is facing robbery charges after he allegedly held up a gas bar.

... He has been charged with robbery (business) while armed with firearm, disguise with intent, possession property obtained by crime (under), and fail to comply recognizance.

... He then allegedly approached the counter, produced a handgun and demanded the attendant hand over cash, which the victim agreed to do.

... An imitation handgun was later seized at his residence during the execution of a Criminal Code search warrant.


Damn, another dud (these being reasons why more stringent controls on these "imitation firearms" are under consideration):

http://www.caledonenterprise.com/news/arrests-made-in-gas-bar-robbery/

Wednesday, August, 27, 2008
Arrests made in gas bar robbery

Caledon police investigators have arrested two men in relation to a mid-July robbery of a gas station just south of Caledon East, The Enterprise has learned.A young man was held up at gunpoint at the Petro 3000 station on Airport Road July 13 after two men entered the station around 10:30 p.m.

The men were taken into police custody August 13 and charged with robbery with a firearm <that is the charge whether it is real or not> and using an imitation firearm for the commission of an offence in connection with the Petro 3000 hold-up.


Ah, finally, a gas bar and a gun:

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/300007--carjackers-go-on-robbery-spree

Carjackers go on robbery spree
Published On Mon Feb 04 2008

Police are hunting two armed men after a carjacking and shooting was followed by two gas bar robberies and a high-speed police pursuit on Highway 401.

... Police say the Audi was stopped at a traffic light when it was bumped by a van. The driver got out of his car to confront the driver of the van and there was an altercation. The Audi driver was shot in the head with a .22 calibre pistol during a struggle and his passenger was assaulted and removed from the car. <injuries not life-threatening>


And my favourite from this little google:

http://www.mykawartha.com/news/news/article/926853

Jan 10, 2011
Arrest made in Fifes Bay gas bar robbery

... The victim told police that a lone man entered the store, appeared to shop and then approached the cashier to make a purchase.

When the cashier opened the till police allege that the man pushed her backwards into a display and reached into the till to steal cash. Police says that the woman reacted quickly, slamming the cash drawer shut on the suspect's fingers.



There's just never anything exciting for me to report from up here in the boring North ...
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gravity556 Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
26. They didn't hesitate to open fire on the clerks.
Fucking shitbags. It was good to hear that one of the shitbag crooks caught a couple of rounds, sad to hear that he didn't succumb to them. Now he'll cost taxpayers 40 grand a year for the next 10-25 years. Definitely glad to hear that the clerk is gonna be OK.

The trials will be jokes, plenty of "He was such a good boy, he never did anything to hurt anybody ever before" and "He was planning on going back to school" histrionics for the cameras and the store owner will probably face a civil suit from the piece of shit thug who caught the bullets.
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. It happened in Texas. Clerk is OK legally, but will likely lose his job.
Texas has civil immunity for those types of cases.
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gravity556 Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Oh, I figured he'd be good to go legally.
Watching that tape, only a complete idiot would find fault for him returning fire. Had he not been armed, I have a feeling that both clerks would have been killed.
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