HR 822 passes comittee 19 Yea, 11 Nay. Will go to House floor.

[GreenStormCloud]

The bill has 245 cosponsors. There are 435 members of the House, so 245 cosponsors is more than half the House. Passage by the House is almost certain.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-822

[RoccoR5955]

1. If it passes...

...you will see more guns in NYC, and other cities, where they don't need to be!

[gejohnston]

4. the problem is not

the guy with the CCW, the problem is they guy that buys it off the street with the profit he made selling a couple pounds of weed.

[RoccoR5955]

6. and what of the one who sells it? n/t

[gejohnston]

21. in this case

the seller didn't have a FFL and really doesn't give a shit about Sullivan Law permits. The seller could have bought it off of corrupt NYPD cops or one of the sub-machine guns stolen from a LAPD armory.

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/90063392?New%20York%20police%20officers%20charged%20with%20smuggling%20weapons%2C%20stolen%20goods

http://newsone.com/nation/casey-gane-mccalla/21-machine-guns-stolen-from-lapd-swat-team/

They misuse the word cache, but I guess that is part of a meme or the quality of journalism has gone to shit.

[RoccoR5955]

7. how about the guy who gets his CCW stolen,

while in NYC, because he's some hick, and gets it pick pocketed while ogling the Disneyfied Times Square?

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PavePusher]

19. This happens... how often? Where? Surely you have some stats to support your....

ivory tower view of rural visitors, yes?

[gejohnston]

22. no, but the

deleted one was actually more accurate and to the point.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

23. So to you...

...the problem is not the crime victim but what he had stolen from him?

Pretty twisted if you ask me...

[Callisto32]

32. Thanks for giving a future (days, the paperwork is in processing) "humble country attorney(tm)"

yet another reason to not spend his money in your beloved metropolitan areas.

I'm glad to know I am incompetent based on my rural origins. This is especially funny since I have met multiple 12+ year olds from NYC that don't even know what a cow is, let alone from where their food comes.

In short, thanks for showing your bigotry, I now know to ignore pretty much everything you say from here on out.

[petronius]

40. If I understand your post correctly (passed the bar?) then

CONGRATULATIONS! :toast:

[Callisto32]

41. Thanks!

I passed the bar, and the motion to admit was mailed out yesterday. Once the SCoPA prothonotary (Not in FF spellchecker, interesting) processes the motion, I will be issued a bar number and officially will be tacking Esq. to the end of my name. :D

[Simo 1939_1940]

118. Big congrats Callisto! NT

[one-eyed fat man]

33. How's about a nice Bronx cheer for your view of the world?

[ileus]

53. pulling a 16-32oz gun out of a IWB/OWB holster without someone noticing is tough.

[RoccoR5955]

68. ya think? how about if he was beaten up and robbed?

muggings happen all the time.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

69. Think about what you just said...

The guy is carrying a concealed weapon. He KNOWS he's in NYC. He KNOWS muggings happen all the time there.

Now think REAL hard about what he's probably going to do once he's attacked...

Unless it is the kind of thing where he is immediately incapacitated, he's going to respond. Either way, you're still essentially saying the victim is the problem, not the criminal.

[RoccoR5955]

100. Maybe you do but as P. T. Barnum said,

"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the general public," or something like that.

[PavePusher]

74. How often to concealed carriers get mugged and their guns stolen?

Stats please, and not the ones from you lower colon.

[RoccoR5955]

98. Well I know of at least one

I don't have any stats, but then I didn't say that it happens all the time either. I never claimed that it does happen, only that it COULD happen.

[PavePusher]

106. No, you implied that it was frequent enough to be a significant problem.

All your baseless hypotheticals can't be supported with evidence.

[GreenStormCloud]

83. The whole idea of having a gun is to be able to shoot muggers.

My wife, a small frail woman in her 60s, has twice put muggers to running. A soon as the would-be mugger realized that she had a gun he ran, each time.

[RoccoR5955]

99. Yeah, and if the mugger is twice as big as the woman

and has a baseball bat, he can probably whack her out cold, and grab her gun AND her money.

[PavePusher]

105. Cites, please. n/t

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gejohnston]

122. If I understand the term correctly

he is not the troll. He is a regular and does make posts of value. Oh yeah, the Kochs do not give a shit about guns. I seriously doubt they want the unwashed masses armed any more than Trump and your former mayor Rudy would. IIRC, he wanted federal law based on Sullivan, until he decided to try for the national stage and learned it would not play well there.

[ileus]

147. If only they did pay people to promote civil rights.

[PavePusher]

128. See my post #127.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the one "trolling" here.

YMMV.

[Marengo]

140. Ah, so you didn't actually see the gun stolen...

Very weak example if relying entirely on what the neighbors claimed.


"I will not feed you trolls any longer, and I hope that you are getting a lot of money from the Koch Brothers for posting here!
Yeah, I know that you will deny it, you are programmed to do so."

Anyone who disagrees with you is a troll?

[RoccoR5955]

114. Just watch ANY NYC TV news

Within a WEEK I guaranty that you will see something atrocious like this happening. It's not the movies, it's not my imagination, it's REALITY in NYC. Then again, I don't believe that you have ever been to one of the rough neighborhoods in Brooklyn, the Bronx, or Queens lately, or EVER.

[PavePusher]

115. People get mugged of their handguns in NYC?

Ummm, yeah, not buying it.

[RoccoR5955]

119. You don't have to, because I know differently.

Believe what you will, all I'll say, is that I feel sorry for you if you think that your gun will keep you safe in some neighborhoods that I have lived in in Brooklyn.
Have you ever been to Bedford Stuyvesant, Brownsville, East New York, or Crown Heights? I don't think that you would like it there. It's much rougher than ANY place in Arizona.

[gejohnston]

123. In other words

much of your city is an uncivilized shit hole. I might be a hick. My high school has a rifle club, and a rodeo team. Where I grew up we could keep the doors unlocked, guns unloaded in safes, and I could ride my bike anywhere in the city I wanted with no problem. The only "gun violence" was one of my friend's abusive and drunk step dad getting blown away during one of his drunken rages(ruled justifiable homicide) and my brother answering a radio call to the only armed robbery in ten years. Our schools were integrated and were funded equally. That is a civilized society.

[RoccoR5955]

125. Yet you think that because you can carry where you live,

you should be able to carry in "an uncivilized shit hole" where thugs would beat you, taking your gun and your money?
Doesn't make sense to me.

BTW -- I moved out as soon as I could. That was more than 40 years ago. It was hell. Race riots every day. I vowed to move as soon as I could. I don't live in Brooklyn any more, but I know why they don't let just any moron carry a gun in NYC. They shouldn't let any moron from someplace where any moron can carry, carry in NYC. It just doesn't make sense to me.

[gejohnston]

126. it always struck me as odd

that it is easy to where you have less need (like Vermont and Wyoming) and next to impossible in places where you would need one the most. I never said my opinion of the the bill. Personally, it has more to do with being consistent with the full faith and credit clause. My biggest problem with NYC's system is it is classest and arbitrary. Has little to do with real need. A working person with a clean record has no chance of getting one regardless of legitimate need. On the other hand, an admitted coke and alcohol addict, racist asshole like Don Imus gets same day service. Oh yeah, and Aerosmith.

[PavePusher]

154. Well, at least your bigotry is "open carry". n/t

[PavePusher]

127. You are SOOOOOOO missing the point.

Who are these people carrying handguns in NYC? That's been pretty much prohibited for the commoners for... quite some time there.

Would you care to try again?

[pipoman]

148. Could it be that

criminals know that 99.9% of their victims are unarmed, therefore, low hanging fruit? Maybe emboldened because they know they have a significant advantage over virtually everyone they encounter because they disregard the strict laws prohibiting carrying of weapons, and they know their sucker victims abide by the laws? Let a few muggers publicly die in a pool of blood in the street and a good portion will find another occupation.

[RoccoR5955]

142. Here's one that came across the news this morning.

Like I said in another post, watch NYC news, and you will hear of someone who had their gun stolen, while they were robbed. In this instance, it was a cop.
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=8409158

From the article: "An off-duty police officer fired shots at a suspect and lost his gun after being jumped in Riverside Park overnight."

Now if a cop can have his gun robbed after he was firing shots. How does that stand from the average citizen, who does not have the amount of training that a police officer has?

[PavePusher]

155. How about "One data point does not indicate a trend, or even a probability".

Your attempt at a statistic is teh phayle.

[RoccoR5955]

156. OK....

Then as they come in, I'll mail them to you... Personally. OK?

[PavePusher]

157. Save them up for a few months and compile a chart.

It'll be more impressive.

[Euromutt]

158. The article doesn't actually say the gun was stolen, does it, though?

It says (twice) that "the officer lost his gun." Given that responding officers recovered the gun, but failed to find the suspect, it sounds to me like the off-duty cop dropped the weapon, not that the mugger took it from him.

[gejohnston]

108. in the movies

In fact, your side seems to get a lot of your information on these issues from Hollywood and bad cop shows.

most of the time her situation awareness will alert her. He would either say "oh shit" and leave, go to hospital, or go to the slab.

[RoccoR5955]

113. Read my post above.

I saw things like this happen in the 60s when I lived in Bed-Sty in Brooklyn. You wanna talk a rough neighborhood, THAT was a rough neighborhood.

[GreenStormCloud]

135. Kind of hard for a mugger to do that with two bullets in his heart and one in his brain.

Muggers really don't like the idea of getting shot.

[ileus]

146. So it's better to become a victim than a chance of being the victor?

That one time....slim as it may or may not be...that one time when the hunted knocks a hole in the hunter makes it worth it.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

91. Some of us country bumpkins left the cities because we know a bad thing when we see it

and eventually expect to see them strip mined for resources then fenced off due to toxic waste.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

124. hick?

lovely.

[Marengo]

141. Reinforcing a stereotype is all you accomplished with this post

A stereotype of New Yorkers, that is.

[dtexdem]

20. the problem is both of them.

And most of all, it's the stupid lack of gun control in this country.

[gejohnston]

25. I fail to see

how many CCWs are killing each other over market share so Bill Maher can fill his bong while lecturing me about "the NRA and the gun nuts are the cause of this." Bullshit.
There is gun control, always has been since the founding. Since the 1930s on the federal level. What you really mean is the "lack to gun control to my liking."

So Chicago and US Virgin Islands should have lower crime rates than take your pick. But, no.

Edit to add: surly someone will ask what I have against Bill Maher. As a comedian, I like him and think he is hilarious. As a pundit/talking head, he is as arrogant and full of shit as the rest of them.

[RoccoR5955]

67. And I fail to see

Why you don't read the ENTIRE second amendment, and only read the part that suits you.

Here it is, please read the WHOLE THING.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

What part of a well regulated militia does the CCW belong to? As I read it, the people should have the right to bear arms if they are part of a Militia, that is well regulated. WELL REGULATED.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

70. Militia membership is irrelevant.

See D.C v. Heller and Chicago v. McDonald. Unanimous holding by the court that the right is an individual one and militia membership does not apply.

If you read that militia membership is required, then you obviously did not pay attention in English. There is no way the sentence can be legitimately interpreted that way under the rules of English grammar in place both in the 18th century and today.

[gejohnston]

75. how is that relevant to my point?

Do you understand the concept of "negative rights"? The constitution does not bestow on the people, it limits government.
Yes: A well regulated militia is necessary for a free state, the right of the people to keep and bare arms shall not be infringed.
History lesson:
the word "regulated" was synonymous with "equipped".
Grammar lesson:
Dependent clause is not the main point. It only modifies the independent clause.

Oh yeah, there never has been a SCOTUS case that supports your theory. The "collective theory" did not exist until the mid to late 20 century. In Heller, all nine defined it as an individual right under the second and ninth amendments. the 5-4 was if the DC ban was a reasonable regulation.

[PavePusher]

76. You lose that argument on mere grammar alone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependent_clause

Study up....

[RoccoR5955]

101. I never claimed to be a writer.

Whenever I write documentation for people I do it under the pseudonym of Euripides Upmann, because that's what they do with it any way, no matter who the hell writes it.

[PavePusher]

153. It's not about your writing.... it's about your reading. n/t

[beevul]

78. As long as you agree to read it in context...

THE Conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution

billofrights.org

Theres your context


You read amendment 2 as ANYTHING BUT the restriction on government that it is.

.

[GreenStormCloud]

136. That horse is dead. You can quit beating it. N/T

[rrneck]

149. Are the members of a militia people? nt

[gravity556]

45. No, it's not the lack of gun control in this country.

There are about 22 THOUSAND gun laws in the nation. The problem is a pervasive entitlement mentality among the criminal class, as well as devaluing of life among that same class. There are people who will kill you for your fucking shoes. You really think that another law will stop them? I bet when you watched Peter Pan as a kid, you were in tears and clapped your hands numb trying to bring Tinkerbell back to life.

[ileus]

11. one difference.....legal guns attached to legal owners.

[Atypical Liberal]

34. Paternalism.

Why is it that the good people of NYC and "other cities" are too stupid to know how to properly own firearms?

Everyone else seems to have little problem.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

2. A good thing if it survives the challenges and becomes law

It also means that we will have to redouble the "shall issue" push in places like California

[Hoopla Phil]

44. I really wonder how the California legislature would respond to this.

Would they move to "shall issue" or completely prohibit all carry in the state so that outsiders would not be able to.

[slackmaster]

48. There really wouldn't be dick they could do about it

Other than whine a lot.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

93. The new ban on open carry of pistols has already opened one door

They can not ban all CCWs or the bodyguards to the stars would have no way to carry. I would expect some stricter rules.

[one-eyed fat man]

145. Sheriff Lee Baca — Los Angeles County, California.

No doubt, the only sheriff that would deserving of accolades from certain dilettantes on this forum. He has already addressed your concerns.

Sheriff Baca is infamous for special treatment for the famous and connected. He created the "Special reserves program" so that he could give CCW permits to favored individuals while with holding consideration for everyone else on the legal pretext that no citizen has legal "good cause".

A California court has already ruled a sheriff's discretion virtually absolute. They may as well have given him a license to print money. How big a contribution to his re election do you think it takes to qualify for his "special reserves program?"

[orwell]

3. Is this a jobs bill?

...nevermind...

[gejohnston]

9. from what I understand

that is the only bad thing about it.

[RC]

10. Yeah, for funeral homes.

[gejohnston]

15. If

Wyoming and Vermont had murder rates like DC or US Virgin Islands instead of being closer to Western Europe's, you might have had a valid point.
They don't.

[PavePusher]

13. It probably will result in a net creation of jobs in manufacturing....

training, govenment bureaucracies, legal professionals and police/prison employment, as good Citizens obtain tools and training to defend themselves, get the unConstitutional government permission slips, and stop criminals from their ill-intentioned endevours.

Sadly, many criminals may loose their jobs. C'est la vie, n'est pas?

[ileus]

35. I'd like to be a production manager, or line foreman.

[jaxx]

5. Thanks, I asked my rep to vote NO.

[Glassunion]

52. You don't have to worry... Yet. Your state does not allow for concealed carry.

So this law would not apply to your state.

However as long as your rep is not any of the following(not sure what district of IL you are in), they may listen. Otherwise the list below are reps from your state who are co-sponsiring the bill.
Judy Biggert
Jerry Costello
Randy Hultgren
Timothy Johnson
Adam Kinzinger
Robert Schilling
Aaron Schock
John Shimkus
Joe Walsh

[safeinOhio]

12. Until they pass a job bill,

who gives a crap about this. Just another distraction to placate the teaparty types while the banks and Wall street robs us blind. I'd be all for it if they solved the important shit first.

[PavePusher]

14. See #13. n/t

[safeinOhio]

16. Then just think how many jobs

a handgun registration bill would produce.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

17. None

Just some revenue for the lawyers who would get it tossed out. Registration on a national scale is illegal. Thanks for playing though.

[PavePusher]

18. I'd rather keep the jobs in useful private sector, wealth generating endevours...

than hire more "public servants" as another source of government spending/tax supported drain and create more classes of criminals, all to no positive effect.

[Hoyt]

26. You against all "public servants," or just ones trying to stop guns from getting in kids' hands

and others who shouldn't have access?

[We_Have_A_Problem]

27. I'm against the ones...

...trying to usurp the Constitution and my rights.

[gejohnston]

29. from my stand point

ones trying to stop guns from getting in kids' hands and others who shouldn't have access?

Those public servants I like. It is the ones that dream up half-baked "sting operations" in places they have no jurisdiction and no tracking mechanism are among the ones I have problems with.

[PavePusher]

30. Actually, I am one of the public servants.

I like to think I actually give good value for my salary, but I may be biased.

My job results in the nation and Constitution being defended, accident victims rescued, disaster relief supplies delivered (personaly on 4 continents) and, occasionally, some truely evil asshole rendered unable to operate. Someone working in a gun registration office... not so much.

Written any good screenplays lately?

[Callisto32]

37. What?

That "swish" sound you just heard was the point going over your head.

[oneshooter]

77. Got rid of your firearms yet? You are over 45 aren't you. n/t

[Callisto32]

36. It may produce jobs, but it won't produce wealth.

This is a fundamental flaw with the idea that government can create jobs. Jobs aren't the issue, wealth is.

[safeinOhio]

57. What are all of these

right wing talking points doing on DU?

[gejohnston]

59. No, read Adam Smith

and Thom Hartmann
Creating wealth comes from manufacturing. The example used is taking a branch (of no monetary value) and turn it into an axe handle (which does.) Same is true of agriculture (turning plants and animals into food). Hunting and gathering economies (the few left) create wealth by carving up the dead deer and making tools and cloths out of the by products. Service economies (moving money around, which the registry workers would be part of) move money around in a zero sum gain.

[safeinOhio]

66. I'm of the opinion that all wealth

comes from labor.
I have read Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations and as I remember he was for regulation against excessive greed. The new capitalist are more of the Ayn Rand bullshit. Read about her personal life and how she went on Medicare in her last years. The opposite of what she preached. The private sector would be nothing without socialist roads, bridges, internet and other government actions that allowed private companies to prosper. The Ayn Rand people that felt government is the problem are the ones that gutted regulations that caused the problems we have now. Get government off of your backs and you end up with Somalia. I knew Thom Hartman from college and use to see him at all of the SDS meetings. You might want to read more of his works and watch more of his show
This is the only forum on DU where one sees all of this anti government, everything private is good bullcrap. You might want to read and follow some of the other parts of this community.

[PavePusher]

71. Mere labour alone does not create wealth.

Robert Heinlein has a short but very demonstrative lecture on this in one of his books.

Basically, the labour has to increase value of the product.

Note also that very basic economics dictate the result here. Assume the government hired every job-less person today. Where would their salaries come from?

No-one has said "everything private is good" except you. But it is true that too much "public" is ruinous. Hello, Greece.

[Euromutt]

159. I think that was Mr. Dubois talking about apple pies in "Starship Troopers"

IIRC, his point was that you can have the ingredients for an apple pie (apples, flour, butter, sugar, etc.), which have value in and of themselves, and by adding labor, you could turn them into an apple pie with more value than the sum of the components. But you could also botch the job and produce a burned, inedible mess with no value at all, the labor you put into it notwithstanding.

A variation on a larger scale was Stakhanovism in the Soviet Union in the late 1930s; by working flat out to exceed their production quotas, and then exceed last month's production, then exceed that, etc. Stakhanovites prematurely wore out equipment, broke more parts and caused more industrial accidents, ultimately resulting in more capital being expended than produced.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

73. You can hold that opinion all you want...

...but it is not based in fact.

If all that was required for wealth were labor, I could work in my backyard 10 hours a day and become wealthy.


Mindless platitudes SOUND good, but they rarely work out very well.

[safeinOhio]

129. Works well both ways

A factory owner can't make a thing without someone's labor. If he could he would. I know lots of people that make a great living working 10 hrs a day in their own yard, basement or fields. It takes human labor to make things, even if it the labor to make a machine that will make the product. The only people that get wealthy with out labor are the money changers and they do not create wealth.

[gejohnston]

87. yes

I have read Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations and as I remember he was for regulation against excessive greed.

yes you remember correctly. The point of the axe handle was that the artist's labor making the handle created the wealth. When labor makes something greater than the sum of its parts, wealth is created. We agree. Where did I say otherwise?

The new capitalist are more of the Ayn Rand bullshit. Read about her personal life and how she went on Medicare in her last years. The opposite of what she preached. The private sector would be nothing without socialist roads, bridges, internet and other government actions that allowed private companies to prosper.

Rand was a fucking sociopath and her books sucked. The roads etc. are examples of labor creating a whole greater than the sum of its parts, just happened to be for the government or its contractors. That has nothing to do with the registry clerk (or most of DoD, my former employer) The wealth in this case is not money. The wealth in this case more efficient transportation, educated people, more access to the world at large. The wealth of a hick like me being able to live in nature on the farm, but still having access to the greatest libraries in the world (the best of country and city) is worth more to me than all of the Koch's billions. Being rich is having a shit load of money. Don't need money to be wealthy.

Get government off of your backs and you end up with Somalia. I knew Thom Hartman from college and use to see him at all of the SDS meetings. You might want to read more of his works and watch more of his show

I read a couple of his books and download his pod casts everyday. Cool that you know him. I was in grade school then. Somalia is an example of not only why libertarianism (right wing) does not work because warlords and thugs will appoint themselves "king", creating de-facto governments. In company towns, the mining company was the defacto government. Explain that to a Libertarian and watch their heads explode. Left wing libertarianism works in small groups, but leaders will emerge in larger groups.

This is the only forum on DU where one sees all of this anti government, everything private is good bullcrap. You might want to read and follow some of the other parts of this community.

Sorry, I missed out on those unless you mean "the police is not there to protect you". That is not right wing militia shit, that is SCOTUS precedent. The role of the police is maintain order and protect society at large (or the wealth of the one percent if you are really cynical). Being skeptical of policies or proposed laws is not Randish. I do not think that was Paves point. His point had more to do with what I explained above. I do read and follow other parts. I rarely comment on them because "me too" is not adding anything useful. If I have something (I think) worth saying, then I will. There is a difference between skeptical of certain policies, programs and being anti government.

Edit to add: One thing I have a problem with are hypocritical faux liberals. I found a lot of them here. Those who hated Bush's terror suspect list (that contains none) until it is proposed to add a group they don't like. Those(some here)have no problem with trumping up fake charges or police brutality on a group they don't like. Those who claim to be and pretend they are open minded not bigoted, but express their narrow mindedness and bigotry here. It does not show their liberalness, but really their inner authoritarian.

[safeinOhio]

130. I can respect your opinion and

agree with most of it. Yet there are many here that will attack any idea that might reduce the need(or excuse) to have weapons all of the time and everywhere. If I post information on home or personal security that does not, or reduces the, use of deadly force, I get attacked all of the time. I feel handgun registration is almost a toss up. Only difference is I see it as an option that would reduce crime and still be constitutionally valid. Perhaps or perhaps not on a national level. That is my opinion and only that, yet I get attacked as a "grabber" and belonging to the Brady Campaign all of the time here. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I dislike the NRA for many reasons, that some how makes me anti-gun.

[Callisto32]

139. Yes...

Rand WAS a fucking psychopath.

I am NOT an objectivist. Just putting that out there.

[Callisto32]

138. Labor is a necessary but not sufficient condition for wealth production.

[Callisto32]

137. Economics is right wing....

problem with Democratic party= DISCOVERED!

[Hoopla Phil]

85. This is not the "jobs" forum. This is the guns forum. If you don't "give a crap about this" then

why the fuck to keep posting in hear?

[safeinOhio]

133. Thank you for the polite post.

However, I post here because I fucking want to. If you have a problem with that put me on ignore. Have a wonderful day. :-)

[Hoopla Phil]

160. I'M not the one with the problem. You post about not giving a crap

but exert the effort to post. Perhaps you are not familiar with the term hypocrite? Or do you give a crap to look it up? I bet you say you don't and then post the definition. . .
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Oh, you're welcome :toast:

[Hoopla Phil]

161. I guess you actually do "give a crap" despite your previous post?

So why the previous post? Did you ever start your own thread rather than try to continue to hijack one? Perhaps you do not "give a crap" enough to start your own thread?

[Township75]

24. Kick Ass!!

!

[bowens43]

28. hopefully the senate will have the good sense to send this piece of shit

straight to the trash can where it belongs..............

[PavePusher]

31. Why? n/t

[philly_bob]

38. I'll drop in at Occupation Philly tonight and I'm glad they don't carry guns... (nt)

[gejohnston]

39. Are you sure?

How sure are you?

[Hoyt]

46. Good point. Many who tote don't have the good sense to leave them at home while at Occupy rallies.

That's a shame and could well detract from the message. If gun toters weren't so oblivious of what's acceptable, toting would not be an issue. Unfortunately, too many are simply blinded by their need to have a gun or two strapped to their bodies when interacting with society.

[ileus]

56. If it's legal why would they go unarmed....never roam alone without a friend or two.

and some backup killer clips with special loads.

[philly_bob]

134. I'm in a working group, so I've known these people for a couple weeks.

They've talked about nonviolence and techniques of "de-escalation."

I haven't done an xray scan or full body search, but I'd take a 100-1 odds that the members of my working group don't carry anything more than a Swiss Army Knife.

[inkool]

42. I have carried a firearm in Philly.

A couple of times and it is completely legal. My PA License to Carry Firearms is as valid in Philly as it is everywhere else in PA.

[slackmaster]

50. I'll bet you there are some Occupiers in Philly who do

You just don't know it.

[Glassunion]

55. ........................ Shhhhhh.

I can say that the possibility exists

[Union Scribe]

82. Hasn't Occupy taught you anything?

The people with guns you need to worry about are those wearing badges.

[Hoopla Phil]

43. This is very promising. I know that our President has made statements

in the past regarding not supporting CHL laws. I hope he tempers that against the view of the people in this regard and signs it into law. It could make this issue into an election issue if he veto's it.

[Hoyt]

47. Should it come to that, I hope he vetoes it.

[Hoopla Phil]

49. I disagree, as does the majority of other Americans.

To support such an action by the President would seem to want to hamper his re-election bid. I support our President and wish him to re-elected. As such, I'd advise against going against the wishes of the majority of voters. You of course, are entitled to your opinion but I do not understand why you would wish to hamper a Democratic President in his re-election here on Democratic Underground.

[Hoyt]

63. I do not believe the majority of voters are for more guns in the streets.

I think voters need to think long and hard about whether this is what we want eating next to our kids and roaming around public parks --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRt_xBl7dLU&feature=related

[Hoopla Phil]

84. Oh right. All the CHL laws sweeping the nation are just a dream right?

:rofl:

So why again is it that you are rooting for the defeat of President Obama in the next election?

[Hoyt]

88. Yea, 3% of population carries. Most people aren't that irrational.

[Hoopla Phil]

92. It is not 3% that are voting for CHL or the elected reps that put it into law.

:rofl:

Again I must ask, why are you rooting for the defeat of President Obama's re-election?

[Hoyt]

95. I am not, as my bumper stickers show. But, I'll be damned if I'll kowtow to single issue gunners.

In 2008, a gunner pulled a gun on me because of my bumper sticker. I told the fucker to shoot me in the middle of the street. He slinked away like the worthless rascal he is.

Single issue voters -- particularly something like guns -- are idiots. And in the case of guns, likely sick.

[friendly_iconoclast]

102. Why didn't you report and try to detain them, like you advocated recently?

I guess your advice is for others to follow, but not you. Like your distrust of other gun owners:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x471849#471995

"Further, every citizen should report anyone carrying a gun in public -- Maybe even hold them until police arrive."


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x471849#472316

"97. One does like in the OP -- calls police. If they arrive in time great. Then, you try to reason

with the gun toter -- which is obviously a losing proposition because the mere fact they carry a gun into a family restaurant shows they are irrational. You do your best to detain them,..."

[Hoyt]

109. Dang man, do you put that much effort into other things?

[Hoopla Phil]

121. So did you detain him??? I bet you don't even have a police report

to cite of the supposed incident.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[friendly_iconoclast]

131. Oh it was easy, as you kept repeating your decidedly unsound counsel on that thread...

...despite all evidence presented that It Really Is Not A Good Idea At All, No Way, No How. You seem to agree, as you do not practice what you preach.

[Hoopla Phil]

120. Um yeah, sure. Did you detain them as you suggest others do?

Hell, I bet you don't even have a police report of the incident.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[RSillsbee]

162. I'm not sure this increases the number of guns in the streets

It simply allows carriers to cross state lines w/out worrying about weather their permit is still valid. Thus I can tote a gun or two w/ the special killer bullets and extra capacity mags and red dot sniper scopes in any Chuck E. Cheeze I choose to. And watch the grabber pee their pants and run, screaming like little girls at the sitre on my special loads

[gejohnston]

61. sure about that?

He signs it, Ted Nugent shuts the fuck up. Rural blue collar traditional Dems come home because the GOP has one less wedge issue.

[Hoyt]

64. Just what we need, a bunch of Ted Nugents running around with guns.

[friendly_iconoclast]

72. Granted, TN is a dick- but how many people has he shot?

And once again, you've revealed something about you and your ilk- you think there's a 'niceness' clause somewhere in the Constitution...

[Hoyt]

96. Directly or indirectly? Want to talk about intimidation and the fuckers who think he's cool?

[friendly_iconoclast]

103. How does one shoot someone 'indirectly'? Does it involve dumbed out bullets...

...and/or red dot sights?

[Hoyt]

111. It involves supporting/promoting legislation that gets some innocent folks killed so that people who

can't walk out their door without a gun or two, feel "safe" or whatever they need. Or, by bitching about some doctor who tries to talk to young parents about the dangers of guns. And there is plenty more.

Sleep close to your guns tonight.

[PavePusher]

116. What are you talking about?

Ten bucks says you're wrong....

[Hoyt]

143. Sounds like you need to read up on "indirect." You are already wrong, so send me my $10.

[PavePusher]

152. You haven't demonstrated your cause/effect link yet.

My money is quite safe. Tonight we feast on tacos!

[RSillsbee]

163. It involves indirect fire artilley NT

[PavePusher]

80. Rights are for everyone, not just the people YOU approve of.

Really, I think you'd be happier in another country. I can think of several that take your approach to government.... most can't even feed their own populations. Good luck with that.

[gejohnston]

90. I always thought he

was more of an archery person, he always used to talk about bow hunting.

[ileus]

51. If he signed it he would win several southern states...

[We_Have_A_Problem]

54. If he vetoed it....

he would gain nothing and would assuredly lose many states who may have been on the fence.

The American public in general is sick of gun control laws. They've had it proven to them over the past 30 years that they do not work.

[Hoyt]

65. No he would not.

[PavePusher]

81. Do expound, please... n/t

[Hoyt]

86. The only way he would win most of the south is to take us back to the early 1950s.

His signing such a bill might make some right wingers happy, but it ain't gonna spur right wingers to vote for him. You must know something I don't about the south when it comes to voting for Obama.

[gejohnston]

89. it is not the right wingers

it is the vast middle who makes the difference. Perry could come up with a single payer plan, but the rest of his "let's pave and pollute at will" and let's bring old sparky alive would still turn me off.

Why do you still live in the South? I know why I'm here (wife is native Floridian and hates snow. It snows out west.)

[Hoyt]

94. Show me anyone who votes primarily on "guns" and I'll show you an idiot. Like some of my neighbors.

Of course here -- guns, confederate flags and TBaggers pretty much go together.

[gejohnston]

97. guns are simply an illustration

or expression of other cultural issues. Confederate flags don't fly where I am from. Just does not go over well.

[friendly_iconoclast]

104. So you'd vote for a Dem who has an NRA endorsement? Good!

Glad to know you're accepting of diversity...

[Hoyt]

110. Actually I would, unless of course they walk around in public with guns.

[PavePusher]

117. So you wouldn't have voted for Giffords? Interesting.... n/t

[friendly_iconoclast]

132. Ha! Good catch n/t

[Hoyt]

144. Lot of good Gifford's guns did her. But, thank gof for little ole unarmed lady who stopped Loughner.

[PavePusher]

151. Dodge. That was not the subject being addressed.

P.S. No-one has claimed a defensive firearm will be useful in all circumstances.

[gejohnston]

107. If Cain gets the nomination?

He is not exactly a 2A kind of guy. Obama signs this, you might be amazed. Oh yeah, Wyoming Dems picked Obama over Hillary in 2008 primary. This is the state that elected the first woman governor. Well to be fair, so did Texas on the same day in 1924 but Wyoming's inauguration is earlier.

[Glassunion]

58. Some of the failed amendments they came up with were funny.

One was a requirement that an individual had to contact law enforcement 24 hours before arriving in the state that they would be traveling to, in order to notify they would be carrying a gun. http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/pdf/10142011%20JacksonLee%20Amdt14%20-%20FAILED%20by%20voice.pdf

Another was the good ole standard scary terrorist list bull shit. http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/pdf/10132011%20Nadler%20Amdt5%20%20FAILED.pdf

Then you have the whole Real ID crap. http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/pdf/10142011%20Quigley%20Amdt8%20-%20FAILED.pdf

You can't forget the back door gun registration angle. http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/pdf/10142011%20JacksonLee%20Amdt13%20-%20FAILED.pdf

Or the whole court order crap. Not conviction but a court order in the prior 10 years. http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/pdf/10142011%20Johnson%20Amdt7%20-%20FAILED.pdf

[We_Have_A_Problem]

60. And so many people...

...would have no problem with such restrictions even though not one of them would pass constitutional muster.

Can you imagine having to notify local law enforcement 24 hours before passing through a state while carrying a religious text or to attend a political event?

[Glassunion]

62. I've said it before. I hate it when folks confuse "necessary evil" with "good".

[oneshooter]

79. You noticed who signed that change?

http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/pdf/10142011%20JacksonLee%20Amdt13%20-%20FAILED.pdf

A misery to Texas and the US Senate.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

150. Yeah - sadly i did....

that woman is an embarrassment to the human race, and proof positive that technology has rendered natural selection obsolete.

She should have been eaten by an animal as a child. She's too stupid to have survived to adulthood without help.