80,000 permit applications downloaded in first 9 hours

[Atypical Liberal]

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/more-than-80000-concealed-carry-applications-downloaded-tuesday-133006158.html

Looks like concealed carry is going to be popular in Wisconsin.

No doubt "blood will run in the streets".

[DrDan]

1. looks like fear is rampant in Wisconsin

[armueller2001]

2. Looks like preparedness is rampant in Wisconsin.

Lots of people who recognize that they alone are responsible for their own security and self-defense, as the police have no legal obligation to protect anyone from anything.

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

[jmg257]

3. Let's hope so - fear keeps people from doing all kinds of stupid stuff, while causing 'em to do lots

of smart stuff.

Ahh fear - embrace it - it can help keep you whole!

[Iktomiwicasa]

4. Looks like...

...the desire to excercise constitutional rights is rampant in Wisconsin.

[spin]

5. Criminals often are armed with weapons such as guns and knives ...

Even with marital arts training, it's very difficult to disarm a man who has a handgun unless he is standing within several feet of you. You can disarm an attacker with a knife as long as he is not an experienced knife fighter, but there is an excellent change that you will get cut -- perhaps seriously.

Martial arts does give you some fighting skills and criminals often lack such training. A black belt in Karate can often lose in a real fight on the street because while a good street fighter usually knows only a couple of tactics he may be very skilled at using them. The street fighter may use a technique that a martial artist has never seen in a dojo. Of course, there is the size factor. A good little fighter has little chance in a fight with a good big fighter. A one hundred pound woman as at a severe disadvantage if attacked by a 250 pound male.

Your argument might hold more water if violent crime was extremely rare however:

The odds of being a victim of a violent crime during adulthood are greater than 2 to 1. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, Youth Violence Research Bulletin — February 2002)

More than one in three (35 percent) of adults are estimated to fall victim to violent crime. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, Youth Violence Research Bulletin — February 2002)
http://www.witnessjustice.org/news/stats.cfm#violentcrime

[-..__...]

6. Looks like joining the 21st Century...

and being enlightened along with the other civilized states that allow CCW, is rampant in Wisconsin.

[iverglas]

15. this really is pretty funny

The notion that US states that allow people to wander around with firearms on their persons are the epitome of "21st century", not to mention more "civilized" than all the places around the world with their universal healthcare and their early childhood education systems and their labour rights and their equality rights ...

I know you don't get the joke, but you can be happy that those of us who do get such endless amusement from your strutting and preening in that strange 18th century bell jar of yours.

[-..__...]

18. Works for me.

And whom, what, when and where did anyone bring up the policies and/or social obligations of these allegedly "civilized" countries of which you speak?

Certainly not moi.

Last time I read the discussion, it was confined to the policies/laws within the borders of the USA.

BTW... your subject line begins with a lower case "t".

You might want to fix that.

[AtheistCrusader]

9. Not for long.

[krispos42]

11. And despite that, concealed-carry laws passed. n/t

[iverglas]

14. Wisconsin's murder and robbery rates

are way below US national average.

(I mention those two crimes because they seem more likely than, oh, larceny-theft to be what people expect to avert by hauling a gun around.)

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/wicrime.htm

But let's watch for the news, a couple of years from now, about how this law is why Wisconsin's crime rates are so low.

You never know, though. Maybe we'll get some numbers for "DGUs" in Wisconsin that will actually be reflected in a declining robbery rate or such.

I guess with all these concealed-carry laws being adopted, it's time we started keeping an eye out for all the good things we can expect to be happening, as all these armed citizens manage to prevent all those crimes from being committed against them ...

[gejohnston]

16. and that is related to

concealed carry how?

That last sentence........ something told me to buy Canadian straw futures.

[iverglas]

17. follow the dotted lines

I replied to a post. Amazing concept.


I guess with all these concealed-carry laws being adopted, it's time we started keeping an eye out for all the good things we can expect to be happening, as all these armed citizens manage to prevent all those crimes from being committed against them ...
That last sentence........ something told me to buy Canadian straw futures.

I'm sorry, have I gone astray somewhere?

Gun militants in Wisconsin have demanded the ability to promenade around with pistols on their person legally because ... they think they're pretty?

[gejohnston]

19. no

to protect themselves from possible (not talking about probable)or credible threats to their safety. No one said anything about robbery or playing Batman. It seemed like you tried to relate robbery rates to CCW laws. If I misread, my bad.

Some pistols are indeed pretty if not works of art.

[iverglas]

20. forgive me if there is something I am not grasping here

to protect themselves from possible (not talking about probable)or credible threats to their safety. No one said anything about robbery or playing Batman. It seemed like you tried to relate robbery rates to CCW laws. If I misread, my bad.

What threats to their safety are they going to be protecting themselves against?

Would these threats commonly be called "crimes"?

What kinds of crimes might they be?

Shoplifting? Cheque kiting? Identity theft? Jaywalking?

Crimes involving the use of force, I would think. The most obvious one being ... drum roll ... robbery.

If these 80,000 people and all those who join them in the coming weeks and months are suddenly able to protect themselves against crimes of violence, having heretofore been unable to do so, what effect might you expect to see?

Fewer crimes of violence maybe?

I guess I must have gone astray here somewhere, but I just can't pinpoint the place.

[gejohnston]

21. I would guess

using the fire extinguisher analogy it could be: robbery, assault, wrong place wrong time. Ask them, I don't live in Wisconsin and I never taken the time to apply for a CCW anywhere. No, I don't live in Arizona, Vermont, or Alaska. Last time I was home (Wyoming, other than to visit family) it had a may issue rule that was about like MA.
It seemed that you were implying that their law robbery rate had something to do with the former CCW law. At least at first glance before I got another caffeine fix.

[rl6214]

25. Gun rights advocates have demanded the ability

to protect themselves with pistols on their persons legally because...they know it is the tool best suited for the job.

The only "militant" around is you.

[jmg257]

27. Would you expect the number of defensive gun uses to go up in Wisconsin?

And/or nationally? (only 1 state w/o CC)

Slightly?
Substantially?
Not at all?

Uh oh...I feel a poll coming on....

[rl6214]

28. I would think it may go up slightly

I have carried for about 5 years now and have never needed to even think about using my gun so the odds are probably against a DGU but that ability to act still needs to be there.

Bring on the poll

[iverglas]

29. no, never mind the stupid word games

Gun rights advocates have demanded the ability to protect themselves with pistols on their persons legally because...they know it is the tool best suited for the job.

They have demanded the ability to carry firearms around on their person legally.

Surely you know it is not within the power of a legislative body to grant someone the "ability to protect themselves". That lies with the deities, or evolution, or happenstance, I'd say.

The only "militant" around is you.

Hey, I've never said there's anything wrong with being a militant; in fact I have said there isn't. I'm very definitely a militant about a variety of things.

It's all in what one chooses to be militant about, isn't it?

[rl6214]

31. Word games? You want to talk about word games?

All you do is dance around a subject playing games with how things are worded, what phrases are used in what tense, whether it meets with your approval when you know damn well what is being said, why it is being said and how it is being said. Just because it dosen't meet with your legalese dosen't make it wrong.

"Hey, I've never said there's anything wrong with being a militant"

So you are perfectly ok with those that you label as "gun militants"?

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iverglas]

36. I get so confused sometimes by what goes on around here ...

and I did want this to be on the record.

My response to the first paragraph is to quote it: "blah, blah, blah."

My response to the second is:

Hey, I've never said there's anything wrong with being a militant
So you are perfectly ok with those that you label as "gun militants"?

... so you are perfectly okay with saying something that anyone with eyes can see, on the face of it, is not based on anything and is in all probability untrue?

These things need to be said. They really do. It needs to be pointed out when the discourse of someone who purports to be engaged in a dialogue consists of misrepresentations of what their interlocutor says.

Innocent misrepresentation or intentional misrepresentation -- who knows? The point and fact are that it is a misrepresentation. I know, because it's a misrepresentation of me and my words, and I really do get to say that, eh?

[SteveM]

33. "He who first smelt it dealt it" -- Euripides.

[Union Scribe]

35. Yes, the elitist fear of the unwashed masses having gun rights. nt

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ileus]

8. Blood I tell you....BLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD all in the streets, on sidewalks...

[DonP]

10. Well, it's not like these people are voters or anything ...

... that Doyle pissed off by vetoing the same bill that just passed two years in a row.

[Paladin]

12. A Douchebag Republican, Doing Gun Enthusiasts A Favor.

How typical.....

[Atypical Liberal]

22. I don't argue with broken clocks when they are right.

[iverglas]

30. yeah, but can't you usually find a working clock

that agrees with the broken ones?

Hell, I'll bet you even make sure to check a working clock and don't just say "oh look, is that the time?"

:rofl:

[SteveM]

34. And doing the Democratic Party a favor by de-fusing gun-control issue.

Pretty soon, even the GOP-founded, GOP-led Brady Center will have to dig for coquinas in a Kentucky stock pond.

[iverglas]

37. "Brawk"

[iverglas]

13. gosh, it's such a big story

it needed two threads.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=475717&mesg_id=475717

Not.

[jeepnstein]

23. And now we'll have the very predictable...

whining and complaining from applicants when the paperwork is a wee bit slow at first. It'll all be some sort of conspiracy no doubt. A law like this is a huge shift in policy and that means inevitable screw ups and delays. A year from now it will all seem like a tempest in a teapot.

There won't be any more blood in the streets than what we have already, which is too much in my opinion. What we will see, however, is that most citizens are quite capable of handling their freedoms responsibly.

[rl6214]

24. The march of freedom is rampant in Wisconsin

[Tuesday Afternoon]

26. sounds like Wisconsin is well on its way to being a

well regulated militia. :patriot: