Change/Eliminate the 4rth amendment to eliminate the 2nd amendment

[Township75]

Poll question: Change/Eliminate the 4rth amendment to eliminate the 2nd amendment

There are many homes in the US with rifles, shotguns, and handguns in them. Some would like these types of firearms confiscated.

Assuming most gun owners wouldn't voluntarily turn their gun in, I can't imagine how else the government would confiscate them, except to go door-to-door...and to rid the US of guns, that means every door. Obviously, this would violate the 4rth amendment.

Would you support changing or eliminating the 4rth amendment in order to eliminate the 2nd amendment? Please keep in mind, this poll concerns confiscating shotguns, rifles and muzzle loaders, and handguns. It is not about other types of firearms.

If you would support a change, please explain what the change would be.

Edit for spelling

[Dookus]

1. I have never heard anybody

in any position of power whatsoever advocate the confiscation of all guns in America. The only people who talk about this are the NRA extremists.

[Township75]

5. On a nationa level, I haven't either...

but in DC and Chicago it is illegal to own a handgun. It shouldn't be hard then to justify making it illegal to own a shotgun or rifle, and let people defend themselves with muzzle loaders...and then eventually get rid of those.

And I do believe a state rep in NY once advocated removing the 2nd amendment.

Either way, the poll will tell us how much this issue is supported here at DU.

[Columbia]

6. You haven't?

"It might be 50 years before the United States gets to where Britain is today. Passing a law like the assault weapon ban is a symbolic--purely symbolic--move in that direction. Its only real justification is not to reduce crime but to desensitize the public to the regulation of weapons in preparation for their ultimate confiscation."

--Charles Krauthammer, Washington Post, April 5, 1996

"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an out right <"assault weapons"> ban, picking up every one of them... 'Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in,' I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here."

--U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), CBS-TV's "60 Minutes," February 5, 1995

"Mr. President, what is going on in this country? Does going to school mean exposure to handguns and to death? As you know, my position is we should ban all handguns, get rid of them, no manufacture, no sale, no importation, no transportation, no possession of a handgun . There are 66 million handguns in the United States of America today, with 2 million being added every year."

-- Senator John H. Chafee, Rhode Island (June 11, 1992, The Congressional Record, 102nd Congress, 1991-1992)

"Mr. speaker, we must take swift and strong action if we are to rescue the next generation from the rising of tide armed violence. That is why today I am introducing the Handgun Control Act of 1992. This legislation would outlaw the possession, importation, transfer or manufacture of a handgun except for use by public agencies, individuals who can demonstrate to their local police chief that they need a gun because of threat to their life or the life of a family member, licensed guard services, licensed pistol clubs which keep the weapons securely on premises, licensed manufacturers and licensed gun dealers."

-- Rep. Stephen J. Solarz, New York (August 12, 1992, The Congressional Record, 102nd Congress, 1991-1992, Daily Edition E2492-2493.)

[Dookus]

8. And where in any of those quotes

does somebody advocate confiscation of all guns?

[Columbia]

9. Baby steps, Dookus, baby steps

Read the Krauthammer quote and then this article, http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/March-April-2003/scene_marapr03_volokh.html.

[Dookus]

12. I maintain my original point-

Nobody in any position of power is advocating the confiscation of all guns in America.

[Columbia]

13. Correct with a nuance

Police, military, and personal bodyguards may have guns of course.

[MrSandman]

17. Concede your point, but...

How would all guns of a specific type be confiscated?

[Columbia]

11. A couple more

"The goal is an ultimate ban on all guns, but we also have to take step at a time and go for limited access first."

-- Joyner Sims, Florida State Health Dept., Deputy Commissioner, Chicago Tribune, November 7, 1993

"The only way to discourage the gun culture is to remove the guns from the hands and shoulders of people who are not in the law enforcement business."

-- New York Times, September 24, 1975

[Dookus]

26. Hrmm...

The Florida State Health Department's Deputy Commissioner in 1993 is not someone I consider "in a position of power."

[FeebMaster]

20. I am reminded of a conversation I had

recently with someone north of the border for some reason.

[FatSlob]

15. Diane Feinstein

said something about confiscation. I'm not sure whether it was about all guns or some guns. She said something like, "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate, Mr. and Mrs. America turn them all in, I would have done it." She said it on CBS.

[Tommy_21]

30. That is true

She did say that.

[iverglas]

32. "something like"??

What do you do, memorize these things for treats?

Diane Feinstein said something about confiscation. I'm not sure whether it was about all guns or some guns. She said something like, "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate, Mr. and Mrs. America turn them all in, I would have done it." She said it on CBS.

Compare and contrast:

When Sen. Feinstein says "right now," it has a special meaning. She is already on record supporting gun confiscation, having said, "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them, Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in, I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren`t there." --CBS 60 Minutes, Dec. 5, 1995

Now c'mon, wow me with your prowess ... and tell me that *you* didn't copy, edit and paste your version from http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=144

Or (clicking randomly on the first page of google results):

http://www.claremont.org/projects/doctors/040302wheeler.html

(The Claremont Institute: "To recover the Founding principles in our political life means recovering a limited and accountable government that respects private property, promotes stable family life and maintains a strong defense." Can ya decode that?)

Oh, well, then there are more NRA sites, and those Pink Pistol gals <sic>, and rkba.org, and something called alphadogweb.com that didn't sound like anywhere I needed to go.

Damn, that's some memory you've got, eh?

And a chorus to boot.

.

[MrBenchley]

33. Amazing, isn't it?

And you'll notice that although they can recite this crap in unison word for word, the RKBA crowd never has anything bad to say about any Republican (except that they're not pro-gun enough to suit the real mental cases among them).

[MrBenchley]

19. Exactly so....

Welcome to the gun dungeon, where right wing idiocy is taken seriously by SOME people.

[Narf]

2. We're from the government and we're here to collect your guns...

Look how smoothly it went for the government in Waco.

[Columbia]

3. They don't even need to change it

Just ignore it like they do with the 2nd.

The 2nd is meant to prevent, deter, and respond to threats against our civil liberties that are protected under the Constitution.

However, as people start caring more about watching the newest Survivor and having the latest model car instead of their civil rights, then that makes us easy pickin's for a predatory and tyrannical government.

[Tommy_21]

31. You are almost correct

It does not matter what is written in the constitution. It only matters what the 9 justices (lawyers) wish to interpret in the constitution.

[mstrsplinter326]

4. a few of us just had a great debate about it in another thread

I think the general consensus was that guns are not the root problem of violence and that something else underlies american's being as crazy as we are. There seem to be many other solutions short of changing the constitution.

[Zynx]

7. Rifles and shotguns are almost never used in violent crime.

Taking them away is a ridiculous notion. Even the vast majority of handguns are never used in violent crime. Bear in mind knife murders are more common the rifle and shotgun murders put together. Should we confiscate knives?

[Narf]

10. 0.05% of the guns in America were used to commit crimes...

According to the Dept. of Justice there were just over 350,000 crimes involving guns in 2002. There are 65,000,000 guns in the U.S. so that means that in 2002 (the last full year with available figures) 64,650,000 guns were NOT used to commit any crimes. Hmm, how come the media never prints THAT statistic?

[RC]

14. You really want to cut down gun deaths in this country?

Then stop the United States from supporting insurrections in other countries and arming both sides, then sending US troops to restore the peace.
Eliminate whatever they call the School of the Americas now.
Stop training and supplying mercenary killers, both civilian and military, all over the world.
In other words if we didn't make killing so common, both here and abroad, the shock value would go up and the murder rate would thereby go down. Problem solved.

[mstrsplinter326]

16. not quite that black and white, but you make a great point (n/t)

[Narf]

18. Certainly a good start...

But how would that prevent Crack dealer A from shooting Crack dealer B, or Carjacker C from shoving a gun in the face of a motorist and shooting him, or Psycho Nutjob guy from bringing his gun to work and killing everyone in the office?

[FeebMaster]

21. I'd stop Crack dealer A from shooting Crack dealer B

by legalizing crack. The price of the now legal drug would drop like a stone. Then dealers wouldn't be killing each other.

Carjacker C and Psycho Nutjob guy are still potential problems, of course. There's not much you can do to stop them though. That's why I support the right of everyone to carry a gun, in case they run into Carjacker C or Psycho Nutjob guy.

[Narf]

25. I'm with you so far. Keep on preachin' brotha!

[FeebMaster]

22. No need to change them

when everyone just ignores them. The second amendment is long dead. The fourth isn't doing too well either. We have to win that war on drugs, though.

They wouldn't have to go door-to-door to everyone's house to confiscate guns. They'll just get all the dealers bound books, find out who owns what. Hell, they might even get warrants to search those people's houses.

[billybob537]

23. that wont work

Read up on the DC sniper case for all the reasons.Nobody knows where most of the guns are. Dealers don't keep good records. Sometimes they illegaly sell guns then claim they were stolen, like the rifle used in the sniper case. The justice dept. under John Asscrack refuses to give the names of dealers suspected of ilegally selling guns to the FBI.

I'm really glad to see no votes to change the constitution.:yourock:

[FeebMaster]

24. Well you won't get them all.

Just the poor suckers who buy them from a dealer all legal like. Of course, those are the people who will turn them in when they're told to. Good luck tracking down guns that were stolen or sold in an unregulated market.

Yes, yes. Pro-gun John Ashcroft appointed by a pro-gun Republican. I've heard it all before.

[demsrule4life]

27. Well here is a start to get rid of the 4th

and of course it "won't be abused".

http://www.theneworleanschannel.com/news/2953483/detail.html

[MrBenchley]

28. Wow...the Fifth Circuit Court....

wonder what other ruling they have made that is profoundly unAmerican and out of step with the Constitution?

Oh, yeah, the Emerson case.

[demsrule4life]

29. What a revealing reply

[MrBenchley]

34. Yea, dems, it reveals what ugly pieces of shit pro-gun conservatives are

[Sanity]

35. Yeah, Michael Moore doesn't exist

reply to first post

[doc03]

36. Why not support removing "well regulated militia" and steal their issue?

[FeebMaster]

37. Yeah that's going to happen.

Amending the constitution is hard work. It's easier just to ignore the parts you don't like.