Concealed weapons allowed in Wisconsin Assembly's public galleries

[hue]

Source: Chicago Tribune

Concealed weapons will be allowed in the Wisconsin state Assembly's public galleries under a policy Republicans have adopted.

Democrats on the Assembly's organizational committee opposed the policy adopted Thursday, saying it makes no sense to allow concealed weapons in the galleries but disallow signs or cameras. Dozens of people have been arrested and removed from the galleries this year for videotaping lawmakers or holding signs.

Read more: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-concealed-weapons-allowed-in-wisconsin-assemblys-public-galleries-20111103,0,2081399.story

[msongs]

1. protect yourself from the gun nuts - get your own gun nt

[SteveM]

22. He leaps, spins, farts in mid-air, runs from room, going: "Tee-hee." nt

[rl6214]

35. Protect yourself from the anti-gun zealots

who knows what sort of whacked out shit they might do

[one-eyed fat man]

67. There are

several states which already permit concealed carry in their state Capitols. My own state permits even open carry. There has not been any problem.

http://www.wfpl.org/2011/01/12/beshear-not-concerned-about-capitol-gun-policy/

Kentucky Gov. Steve Beshear sees no reason to change the current “open carry” policy for handguns at the State Capitol. Beshear says he feels comfortable and safe in the building.

Right now 49 states permit some form of concealed carry. For the past thirty years you and your cohorts have been telling us as each state has considered passing concealed carry it would be "...like Dodge City!!" "There will be shootouts over parking spaces and fenderbenders..." "Blood will flow in the streets..."

Are your feet wet?

Are you certain the citizens of Wisconsin are more blood thirsty and lack the judgment of the other 48 states?

Not once, since 1986, have the dire predictions of bloodbaths come true. Having been wrong 48 times already, why are you so damn certain you are right now?

[teddy51]

2. The big question is, why do they need concealed weapons in these areas?

There is no good reason for this.

[dtexdem]

5. I dunno -- those WI GOP legislators seem rather dangerous.

;-)

[SpankMe]

6. They need concealed weapons to intimidate.

They're afraid of transparency (photography) and free speech (signs). But they embrace the power they hold by subtly maintaining readiness for violence.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

How can somone be intimidated by something they don't know is there?

If a weapon is concealed... how can it intimidate?

[Starboard Tack]

54. Why don't you ask the residents of Kabul and Bhagdad that question?

How can you be intimidated by something you don't know is there? Boom! Boom!
Do you honestly believe there are only two kinds of creatures on this planet, toters and ostriches?
You really think you slip under the radar? Anyone really looking for a gun will spot you in a heartbeat, especially if he is a professional miscreant. In which case, he will either back off or eliminate you first.

[gejohnston]

64. pipe bombs triggered by cell phones are not

pistols. Walking into your own capitol building is not the same as being the second coming of the British or Soviets.
I always there were three kinds of creatures on the planet. Living, dead, and undead (OK, so I have been reading too many zombie movies and read Dracula too many times)

[AtheistCrusader]

11. How does one intimidate someone with an object that, if revealed, is the immediate

commission of a crime?
(intentionally revealed, or brandished)

[Starboard Tack]

55. How do guns get to trump signs and cameras?

What's the point in carrying something if you can't use it? By intentionally revealed, are you saying that forgetting to zip your fly is an acceptable excuse to reveal yourself?

[AtheistCrusader]

57. Try re-reading my post.

If you reveal a concealed firearm, you have (in that state) committed a crime.
You MIGHT get some leeway for an 'accidental' print-through of your clothing, or glimpse of it, but I doubt it, especially when engaged in political speech. Showing it is a no-no. Even if an accient, you will probably have to explain yourself in court.

You CAN use it, if needed, and justified. For me, the primary point would be to not have to leave it in my car.


Edit: and to answer your bullshit 'trumping' question; it doesn't and cannot. Just like you cannot excercise your first amendment rights in political speech by threatening someone, you similarly cannot excercise your 2nd amendment rights while threatening someone. Brandishing is a threat. 'revealing' a firearm while engaged in political speech is HIGHLY likely to be construed as a threat as well.

[Starboard Tack]

59. I guess you choose to walk a very fine line

Kinda like women who wear pantyhose. What's bullshit about my "trumping" question? Obviously, the WI legislature is more intimidated by signs and cameras than by anyone with a CCW permit bringing their favorite party pistol to the debate?
Sometimes, I feel like I'm at the Mad Hatter's tea party where corporations are people and guns have rights.

[SteveM]

23. Just a technical/philosophical question: How do concealed weapons "intimidate?"

[rl6214]

36. If theiy are concealed, how can they intimidate?

Inquiring minds want to know?

[Union Scribe]

44. So...no answer yet?

[AtheistCrusader]

9. There is at least one.

Many people carry throughout the day. This prevents them from needing to leave their weapon in the car, where it might be stolen.

I prefer WA state's solution to this at courthouses, where I can check my firearm into secure storage at the door. Reclaim it when I leave.

[slackmaster]

17. teddy51, I'm wondering why you believe you are qualified to make such a blanket statement

Please explain.

[Starboard Tack]

32. Because, in the minds of chronic toters, 2A always trumps 1A

They need to protect themselves from those who might attack with words and signs.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

40. Anything to back up that cheap smear?

[oneshooter]

42. Of course not! He doesn't need proof! His word is law.

:sarcasm:

[Starboard Tack]

48. What makes it cheap? Because it is true?

Guns are OK, but not cameras and voices. You can tote, but you can't shoot pictures or raise your voice.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

50. That is inflamatory and unsupported, consisting mostly of hyperbole

[Starboard Tack]

52. Tell that to the legislators who made the rules.

No signs, no cameras, but please bring your guns. Yeah, I'd say that's pretty inflammatory.

[gejohnston]

58. Only because

Our side have been showing up with the signs and cameras. They are assuming only their (the right wing power structure) will be showing up with guns. If our side shows up with guns (not saying we should, just saying if) then they would change their minds.

[Starboard Tack]

61. And what kind of signs were "our side" bringing?

How would they change their minds? By allowing us our 1A rights, or by banning guns from the building?
How do you feel, knowing you are part of a tiny minority, being a Democrat gun toter? Surrounded by armed teabaggers and more lining up daily for their permits, I'd be questioning what I'd wished for.

[gejohnston]

63. I'm guessing you missed the

march on Madison after the Jan 2011?
By banning guns from us, that is how it works. The reason Florida banned open carry in 1893 was because some white people freaked over African American migrant workers openly "toting". Then there is the Mulford Act.
Define "toter?" If you mean CCW, they are small minority of the population. Don't have one. Never took the time to. No, I do not live in a green state, although back home is not. Last time I lived there (before enlisting) it had a may issue you would approve of (given that Wyoming is very rural and safer than much of Europe, who cared?)
The rank and file "tea" types are populists mostly. The Kochs created a monster they can not control and are now part of OWS. You might think it is nuts, but Bernie Sanders and Thom Hartmann agree with me on this one.
Most people lining up are probably moderates or non ideologically aligned (majority of the population). Assuming only right wingers "tote" is absurd as the only hippies toke. I have known a lot of right wingers and rednecks that were pot heads.

[Starboard Tack]

65. And Dubya had 2 African Americans in his cabinet

[gejohnston]

66. So?

Warren Harding had a very good record on race relations, way ahead of his time. FDR's wife was a "toter". He still tied Grant for having the most corrupt administrations. Charlton Heston marched with MLK, what are you saying? Has nothing to do with it, unless you are trying for genetic fallacy or something. My point is that guns are not fall rigidly if at all along right/left as some seem to think. Sly Stallone is right of center, Brady member, "toter" and "grabber". Toter for him, grabber for us little people.
Ever notice that Brady events are all one percenters in tuxes? Most are kind of right of center? The NRA is kind of right wing at the moment, only since 1977. The gun control groups always have been headed and funded by conservatives, other than maybe the Joyce Foundation. Without them, Brady and VPC would not make payroll.

[iverglas]

46. aha

You noticed that too, eh?

Stunning silence from the cheap seats, er, gallery ... ;)

[Starboard Tack]

53. I know. Where's the posse? I don't even hear the hoofbeats.

Uh,oh! Here comes the Prof. with his knickers all in a twist.

[PavePusher]

41. So, we should probably have a map and lengthy list...

of places where Civil Rights do not apply, hmmm?

Sorta like "Free Speech Zones", only the opposite, all neat and tidy.

[GreenStormCloud]

56. Because Star Trek Transporters haven't been invented yet.

A person can't teleport from home to galley and back. They have to travel over land. They may also go other places in the same trip. They may go galley, afternoon movie, mall shopping, then grocery store and home. Some of those places may be very safe and some of them less safe. People do get robbed in parking lots, especially at night. I suspect that you really want people to always be defenseless against violent criminals.

[Ed Suspicious]

3. In the last week I started noticing signs all over the place and most of the business locations

I frequent, disallowing guns on their premises. Feels like the old west. Hang your gun belt at the door hombre.

[SteveM]

26. Texas has an official "no-weapons" sign complying with statute 30.06...

(yes, that is the number), and some businesses in Austin post them. No big deal. Most, however, don't post signs of any sorts regarding weapons. No panic on South First.:shrug:

[friendly_iconoclast]

37. I wonder how long it will take before people realize word magic doesn't work?

Protip: The people that obey the signs aren't the ones you have to worry about. The ones you should worry about don't
give a shit about signs.

[krispos42]

51. Yeah, well, I'm sure they'll be routinely ignored.

Violent criminals are ignoring them anyway, so what's the point? It's concealed.


They might as well put up a sign mandating that visitors wear underpants.

[dtexdem]

4. Wow, someone needs to make a video camera that looks like a gun.

Sure, they say concealed weapons are allowed -- but I'm sure the WI Rethugs wouldn't object to a few in the galleries waving their "guns" around. ;-)

[AtheistCrusader]

7. Enjoy getting shot by the local police.

Dumbest idea I've heard all day.

[TygrBright]

8. ::snork:: That's not a bad idea!

And eminently possible. You wouldn't even have to manufacture it. You can now buy pin cameras and micro-cameras online that could easily be slid into the barrel of a gun, real or fake. And/or replace a sighting device on same.

Oh, my. Someone should do that... and then run the recorded feed later, once they leave the gallery.

heheheheh... Any WI DUers interested?

amusedly,
Bright

[AtheistCrusader]

10. Not a bad idea?

Are you really encouraging people to wave around gun-like objects in the state legislature? In response to CONCEALED firearms carried by licensed people?

Police have shot people for holding WALLETS in their hands, let alone something that actually looks like a gun.

[TygrBright]

12. There would be no need to "wave" anything.

Just slide the camera quietly out of its safe little cached in/on the weapon, and equally quietly replace it in an inconspicuous vantage point for filming. When you're ready to leave, slide it quietly back into/onto the weapon, and hey, presto! You have footage that won't be confiscated by Capitol Security.

helpfully,
Bright

[AtheistCrusader]

13. Yeah, you definitely won't be arrested for that.

Nor was that what the person you were responding to was talking about.

If you are fumbling around with a firearm, you will likely be seen, with all the consequences that entails. Concealed means CONCEALED. No one should be aware of it.

If you want to get footage out, just take the damn SD card out of the camera and put it in your wallet or give it to someone else or something.

[TygrBright]

14. Pin cameras don't use SD cards, they are too small. Their storage is integrated.

Assuming you "concealed" the weapon in a pocket, what's wrong with sliding your hand into, and back out of, a pocket now and then? Even assuming you wear an underwear holster, what's to stop you going to the restroom, sliding the camera out, mounting it inconspicuously on your clothing, glasses, notebook, whatever, and returning?

curiously,
Bright

[gejohnston]

18. a pin camera hidden in a magazine or magazine pouch

cool concept.

[rrneck]

19. The answer is fairly simple.

DON'T FUCK AROUND WITH GUNS OR ANYTHING THAT LOOKS LIKE A GUN. THEY ARE DANGEROUS AND BEHAVING LIKE AN ASS WITH THEM CAN GET YOU OR SOMEBODY ELSE KILLED.

[SteveM]

28. I'm surprise at the number of gun-controllers who are so cavalier with safety. nt

[rrneck]

29. Ain't it the truth.

Stupidity is self inflicted ignorance.

[Starboard Tack]

33. Wow! Has there been a true renaissance?

Your best post ever! Congratulations. ;-)

[rrneck]

34. Thanks.

The four rules of safe firearms handling hold true in the home and on the street.

[SteveM]

27. Bond. James Bond. nt

[gejohnston]

43. I have the perfect pistol to carry the pin camera

Found a pre 68 .32 PPK in a gun shop that just opened.

[one-eyed fat man]

68. Get out your orange spray paint

Federal law requires all replica and fake guns to have the muzzles painted orange so they don't get confused with real guns, remember?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toy_weapon#Toy_Weapon_Laws

In the United States since 1992, toy guns are required to have an orange plug or be entirely brightly colored to signify them as toys.

Chicago goes even further with their mandates. It is considered a crime to wield a look-alike/replica gun (e. g. toy gun, Airsoft gun) in public.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_RaxQOMkISCg/TJ2JJkZi7zI/AAAAAAAAEkE/8zKV1wnczlA/s1600/kids+playing+cowboy.jpg

The second biggest crime wave to hit Chicago since Blago went to selling Senate seats on ebay

[Scuba]

15. Tea Partiers will henceforth shoot anyone bearing an anti-Walker sign. n/t

[gejohnston]

21. so we wear

vests and file charges for attempted murder. Oh yeah, we can shoot back.

[slackmaster]

16. Basic gun safety should be taught in public schools.

Children should not be allowed in anything called a "gallery."

[louis-t]

20. Let's concentrate on math and science first.

Worry about schools teaching about guns later.

Oh, and maybe spelling.

[gejohnston]

24. even more important

are civics, critical thinking and history. Those are key for an informed electorate.

[SteveM]

30. We need to concentrate on all the subjects...

I see nothing wrong with having math, science, English, art, etc., being offered -- along with a short-course on firearms use and safety.

When in the eighth grade, I took my Remington 870 shotgun to "homeroom" and displayed its use, disassembly, safe use, and cleaning procedures. Most folks were quite interested.

It says something about our "zero tolerance policies" that a teacher cannot broach the subject of gun history and safe use, or the debate over illegal drugs, or birth control.... or even science... without someone losing continence and getting the teacher fired.

Incidentally, when teaching at the local community college, gun-control was a regularly-studied topic; on one occasion, two police officers came in with several arms: One was a full-auto grease gun, and another was LBJ's M-16. The officers explained the difference between full-auto and semi-auto, and the laws governing them.

[iverglas]

47. ah, it's the paragon of civil discourse on the job again

... without someone losing continence ...

Is it that you just plain simply can't conceal the contempt in which you hold normal people, or is it more on the lines of you all having an unhealthy fixation on feces and urine that you can't repress?

[slackmaster]

31. False Dilemma

If schools can spare a few hours to teach students about the dangers of unprotected sex and illegal drugs, they can find one more hour to teach them how to safely unload the most common types of firearms.

[louis-t]

39. Mmmm, I haven't heard any of curricula that teaches those things.

[AtheistCrusader]

38. Physics, arithmetic, metallurgy, engineering, geometry

Like Ragu, it's in there.

[PavePusher]

69. Chemistry, law, history, psychology, biomechanics, medicine, first aid, citizenship... n/t

[GKirk]

25. Unless they install metal detectors...

... concealed weapons have always been 'allowed'.

[iverglas]

45. oh look! oh look!

"... saying it makes no sense to allow concealed weapons in the galleries but disallow signs or cameras."

Now if I go back and read the entire thread, I just know I will find post after post where people have said:

I believe in the Bill of Rights ... ALL OF IT.

:rofl: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes:

Wait, you're making me dizzy.

:eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :rofl:

[spin]

49. Good point! (n/t)

[AlinPA]

60. Are there any limits on the size of the weapons? Couldn't find anything on that.

I did see that they voted to disallow any open carrying of weapons such as rifles. Which means you can conceal a rifle and be OK?

[AlinPA]

62. Just found it. There is a limit on size-can't carry a machine gun or short barrelled shot

gun/rifle.
Q: What kind of weapons can I carry with a concealed-carry license?

A: Handguns, electric weapons such as stun guns or Tasers, knives other than switchblade knives, and billy clubs. You can't carry a machine gun or a short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun. When carrying concealed, you must also carry a license and photo ID unless on your own property.