Antioch homeowner kills would-be thief

[alp227]

The owner of a vacant Antioch home shot and killed an alleged burglar today after he caught him stealing copper wire, police said.

The shooting happened at a home on the 200 block of West 17th Street about 2:45 p.m., said Antioch police Sgt. Steve Bias.

The homeowner interrupted a break-in at the home and "defended himself by shooting the burglar after threats were made toward him," Bias said.

The suspect had removed copper piping and wires from the home, police said.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/11/05/BA0O1LR7BB.DTL

[demosincebirth]

1. ...over copper wire.

[pipoman]

2. yep..amazing someone would risk their life and threaten

harm against an owner over copper..

[gejohnston]

3. In all fairness

someone unemployed for over a year, price of copper these days. Desperate people do desperate stuff. Not excusing it, merely explaining.

[pipoman]

4. Oh I understand..

we are in the middle of a complete house remodel..our house looks uninhabited right now..there have been a few incidents of people driving in late at night, the only reason could be to case the site, only to realize we are living here. I probably wouldn't shoot someone for theft unless they entered while we were here..I might make it difficult for them to escape before the sheriff arrived.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=287x9309

[one-eyed fat man]

5. They are more than willing to risk lives

Copper thieves here stole the wiring to the tornado alert sirens. They have stolen runway lights from small airports.

Every now and then one incinerates himself by cutting a 7200 volt line with his Harbor Freight wire cutters.

Job sites are always a prime target.

[bahrbearian]

7. Some states are going to let you shoot someone for looking crosseyed at you.

[ileus]

9. I suppose looking crosseyed won't be as popular then.

[TheWraith]

10. Care to provide proof of that?

Or is it just another iteration of the silliness about people being entitled to defend themselves?

[petronius]

11. That sounds really dangerous for people with strabismus and related conditions

Has the American Academy of Ophthalmology (or a similar professional organization) expressed any opinion on this legislation you're apparently referring to? :shrug:

[Union Scribe]

22. Lol!

:D

[demosincebirth]

12. All missed my point except you. Congrats.

[SteveM]

15. No, you manufactured the issue ("copper wire"), but forgot the threat...

evidently during a break-in at that. BTW, was the threatening break-in criminal warned?

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iverglas]

26. my post stated facts

(a) nobody missed your point

(b) pretense is what passes for discourse in this forum

Both are true. Stating these facts violates no rules.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

28. Your post only contained you slanted opinion

Discourse here is good, even if you don't care for it.

[oneshooter]

13. Yea, they should be allowed to tear up your walls, steal your a/c unit,

and create a lot of damage so that they can get your copper. Have you ever seen how much damage they cause? I have a client that spent over $30,000 repairing his home after thieves who "just wanted a little copper". The scrap price of the copper, at the time #2 was going for $3.50 Lb, was a grand total of $100.00.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[ileus]

16. We could have lost a 50k mammo detector because methheads robbed copper.

One of our offsite mammo machines requires a precise room temp or it could kill the receptor which runs 50,000 bucks. So for 50 dollars of copper these bums tried to destroy a 300k machine.

Same site they stole a 20ft piece of cable that the mobile MRI is powered with, 100 bucks of copper cost 5500 to replace, plus the unit was down two days.

[SteveM]

14. ...over a threat toward another human. There fixed it. nt

[iverglas]

20. what was that threat, please?

One assumes you know.

[SteveM]

30. Save time: Read the OP. nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

18. He was killed for making threats towards the home owner, not copper wire

People don't kill perps for the crime (theft), but for the risk to the victims lives that the perps bring (death threats, weapons, beatdown...).

If the perp runs away and poses no threat, I don't know anyone who would shoot them, and I know that I would not. Run towards me and that is an entirely different manner.

The perp did not lose his life over copper wire

[iverglas]

21. what were these threats?

Won't somebody tell me?

I'm sure everybody read the report and was as enlightened as I was.

The homeowner interrupted a break-in at the home and "defended himself by shooting the burglar after threats were made toward him," Bias said.

... The homeowner was cooperative with police and has not been arrested, pending an ongoing investigation.

By the way, the building was vacant, so it wasn't the homeowner's "home", just for interest.



I am so sick of having to type html tags ... bring on the 21st century

[Union Scribe]

23. Is there some reason not to take his word

since it appears that the police have? If the investigation reveals anything else, perhaps then would be the time to second guess both the victim and the police.

[iverglas]

25. is there some reason you say

"it appears that the police have", since it doesn't say anything remotely resembling that?

Who said anything about not taking anybody's word?

There's an allegation that threats were made.

Nobody here has the first clue what the threats were, or what capability the individual had of carrying them out or what indication the individual gave of attempting to carry them out.

"Making threats" isn't actually justification for homicide. Maybe you didn't know this.

Of course, this may be a jurisdiction where no justification is required for homicide. In that case, if no such justification was present in fact, and no charges were laid because the jurisdiction allows murder with impunity, it would be just another day in the land where the rule of law doesn't rule.

[dairydog91]

29. "Making Threats" is a justification for lethal self-defense.

West's Ann.Cal.Penal Code § 197
Homicide is also justifiable when committed by any person in any of the following cases:
...
(2) When committed in defense of habitation, property, or person, against one who manifestly intends or endeavors, by violence or surprise, to commit a felony, or against one who manifestly intends and endeavors, in a violent, riotous or tumultuous manner, to enter the habitation of another for the purpose of offering violence to any person therein

California state law precedent strongly suggests that verbal threats coupled with some sort of action are sufficient to justify lethal self-defense, provided that the person killed made a demonstration or attempt to hurt the homicidal actor, AND the person killed had a real or apparent ability to take life, AND the threat was imminent. Perhaps the prosecutor took a look at the facts as described to him by the homicidal actor here and decided that the deceased did make a credible threat of imminent harm. It's worth noting that in order to successfully deploy a defense of lethal self-defense, the defendant must only present enough evidence to raise a reasonable doubt in the jurors' minds as to whether the homicide was actually self-defense. People v. Toledo, 85 Cal.App.2d 577.

"In that case, if no such justification was present in fact, and no charges were laid because the jurisdiction allows murder with impunity, it would be just another day in the land where the rule of law doesn't rule."
Of course, if justifiable homicide is allowed under the law, and the homicide in question meets the conditions of justification, then it's justifiable homicide.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

27. There were per the OP

Shabby reporting has always been the norm, and this is no different. If it looked like a set up, the victim would not have gotten a pass from the cops.

If there were other reports, I am sure you would have found them by now.




As for the HTML tags, DU3 may solve that. Until then you should be able to load up some sort of keyboard macro for the ones you commonly use.

[Iktomiwicasa]

31. what were these threats?

Brandishing a knife.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/11/07/BADU1LRO9I.DTL

[DWC]

6. I honestly expect confrontational situations like this

to increase significantly across the next few years. IMO, being prepared and equipped to defend myself and my possessions is just good, common sense.

Semper Fi,

[ProgressiveProfessor]

19. With 3 strikes and increased sentences for many crimes, some criminals are willing

to escalate rather than run. The idea being that if they kill/intimidate the homeowner, there is a lower risk of arrest. At least its a theory that has some traction these days.

My personal feelings are mixed. Its at best a macro kind of thing and the circumstances and the perp are going to control a particular situation more than trends. In the end, thanks to Castle Defense the victims do not have to worry about being second guessed if they decide to shoot.

[ileus]

8. He sold his life for copper....being stupid doesn't pay.

[Union Scribe]

24. I'm wondering about the scrap yard people.

Some sketchy twitching dude walks in with a pile of copper wiring and they're like, "Yeah, this looks legit, here's your money."