Wisconsin: Training? We don't need no stinkin' training! (Concealed weapons)

[Scuba]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/133370223.html

Committee suspends training requirement for concealed weapons

..snip..

Madison -- Those seeking permits to carry concealed weapons no longer need to show they had at least four hours of firearms training.

Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen wrote rules implementing the state’s new weapons law that set four hours as the minimum length of firearms training courses. But on Monday, his fellow Republicans on the Legislature’s Joint Committee for Review of Administrative Rules suspended the requirement for minimum hours.

The measure passed 6-2, with all Republicans for it and all Democrats against it.

The effect likely will be that the state Department of Justice will accept any training certification submitted with an application for a concealed weapons permit, Van Hollen told the committee just before it voted on the matter. Thus, some people could wind up getting permits after a bogus instructor passes out permits after teaching a course that lasts just a few minutes, Van Hollen said.


..end..


I always thought four hours was kinda meager for permitting someone to run around with a loaded handgun. Guess the Republicans thought it was too much.

[slackmaster]

1. Vermont has never required any training, or even a permit

:shrug:

[tblue]

4. Oh no. Really?

Dang. I had considered moving there someday because of Bernie and Howard Dean.

[TheWraith]

6. And you're going to rule it out, now?

They've never had a problem with that policy.

[slackmaster]

7. It's one of the safest states to live in by any measure

Why would you rule it out over this?

[Kolesar]

10. America has all the shootings because of "the races"

Or so said the head of the NRA.

[rl6214]

11. Link?

[oneshooter]

13. He don't need no stinkin link!!! Just another drive by" because I said so" poster. n/t

[Kolesar]

19. During the "famous" last scene while Charlton Heston sat comfortably on his patio

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310793/

[gejohnston]

14. still safer than half of Europe and all of the US

that was their law even when Wyoming had a strict may issue.

[midnight]

2. Lots of people without health care having to move around in a space

occupied with gun carrying folks who rather not receive training..... Is this trainning suspended for everyone or just military people?

[tblue]

3. How asinine are these people?

Really, that is wholly unreasonable. Remind me never to visit Wisconsin until this is overturned. If I want to hang out where there are weapons all around me, I can go to Iraq.

[TheWraith]

8. Hate to break it to you, but most states don't require formal training.

And the rate of firearms accidents in the US is still at all time historical lows.

[rl6214]

12. Try Vermont

No training, no permits, open or concealed carry, very low gun crime rate.

[Wait Wut]

5. They did that here in AZ.

Within 1 month: a woman damn near shot a friend of mine in the head when the gun in her backpack went off. Another dropped a gun out of his pants and shot himself in the head (superficial wound). Another dropped his gun out of the waistband of his sweatpants at our local Fry's and almost shot his mother.

We don't need no education!

[gejohnston]

15. I am guessing that

she was in one of the cities and did not know much about guns. The no training works in places like Vermont and Wyoming (and rural AZ) because folks have been trained as kids. More urban/suburban places, not so much. I took the Florida CCW class, it was easy for me to pick out who were gun culture and who retirees that were new to guns.

[Wait Wut]

21. Prescott knows plenty about guns.

And, that really is a poor excuse for the three incidents I gave. They would actually be excellent argments FOR a training requirement.

[AtheistCrusader]

9. Washington State: No training requirement.

Blue state. Well blue. Blue Legislature, etc.

[apocalypsehow]

16. Yep: Right-wing Republicans are all for it. And so too, are RKBA 'progressives'. Quelle surprise!

"It's friendship, friendship,
Just a perfect blendship!
When other friendships have been forgot,
Ours will still be hot!"

[friendly_iconoclast]

18. Michael Bloomberg supports strict gun control. Dick Cheney supports same-sex marriage.

Protip: Don't play the "associational fallacy" card, as it can just as easily be played by others...

[apocalypsehow]

20. Non responsive, semi-coherent nonsense. n/t.

[SteveM]

24. "Non-responsive?" Hardly. It's called being check-mated. nt

[SteveM]

23. ...and RKBA Vermonters...

What makes you so "progressive?" One issue? Really?

All some gun controllers can do is try and imply pro-2A folks are not "progressive." Is the issue worth that much to you? Splitting even further what remains of progressive/liberal politics?

Hard-forged facts: (1) The gun-control "movement" made the modern NRA.
(2) The fastest-growing group of gun-owners is Democratic.

http://search.aol.com/aol/search?query=gallup+survey+gun+ownership&s_it=client_searchbox

[ileus]

17. No training required in VA...no problems so far.

[SteveM]

22. Another duplicate OP. Vermont "don't need no stinkin' training."

[Euromutt]

25. Point of order: there is still a training requirement in Wisconsin law

That's part of state law now. It's just the rule that "it has to be at least four hours" has been suspended. Look, the AG said himself he picked that because he didn't have any guidelines from the legislature as to what the standards should be. And personally, I don't see how setting a minimum length of time is going to guarantee the trainee will actually have learned anything useful during that period; you can waste an amazing amount of time discussing the mechanical workings of various types of firearm and minutiae of who may legally possess a firearm, none of which helps you better understand firearm safety or justified use of lethal force. I think Utah has the right idea in having a minimum training curriculum for CCW classes. That's the stuff the students have to know, and how long it takes them to master all that is irrelevant.

I'll admit my attitude is shaped by my brief (conscript) military career, and one event in particular. At NCO school, we were instructed in the basics of instructing, in order to be able to instruct our future subordinates, and I had to instruct half my platoon in the finer points of installing rifle slings and drilling with a slung rifle. So I had half the platoon going through the moves on the parade ground, and at a certain point, they'd done everything they needed to know correctly half a dozen times but there were still ten minutes left to fill. The drill instructor who was observing me noticed I was getting a bit desperate to figure out what to do, and he called to me "have they done good work?" When I answered that they had, he told me, "well, if they understand the material in less than the allotted time, there's no need to keep drilling them for the sake of filling time; reward them by giving them the remaining time to have a coffee break." And that's an attitude to which I've adhered in the intervening 18 years.

I will add that I think the committee could have done worse than say "okay then, we'll get to work on establishing a set of minimum knowledge-based requirements for the AG to implement instead of a time-based requirement."