another why only police should have firearms file submission.

[Remmah2]

Can you imagine what would happen if the average citizen would be allowed easy access to firearms?



http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_19290427

[HopeHoops]

1. We are. I can walk into any sporting goods store, throw cash at them and get a sniper rifle.

What the fuck good is that going to do me? I'm a vegetarian? But I do own an unregistered shotgun (Sears, believe it or not), two 22's and a, well fuck, I don't know - Bulldog rimless revolver. None of them are registered because they're so fucking old.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

2. I don't know where you live...

...but in the vast bulk of this country, age would have nothing to do with registration. They wouldn't be registered because it isn't required. Only a small number of backwards municipalities require their law abiding citizens to register firearms.

[HopeHoops]

3. Well this is PA - if you're going to call something backward we're pretty much on the forefront.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

6. You do not have to register firearms in PA

In fact, it is illegal in PA for any municipality to require it. Yes, your state also has state preemption laws, so no, it really does not matter what the Philly cops think...

http://www.pafoa.org/law

[HopeHoops]

8. Well you do to transfer them out of or into state - except for shotguns.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

9. Nope - you dont.

You do have to run them thru the instant check if you transfer ownership, but if you move there from another state, its none of the state's business what you brought in.

[HopeHoops]

13. Well, as live-free-or-die as NH was, I would have had to have them shipped under official code.

Two 22's and a revolver. The shotgun just needed a roll of paper towels over the barrel (go figure).

[PavePusher]

20. Huh? No you don't.

Inter-state transfers between people have to be done by a licenced dealer, but no registration is involved. If you are simply moving from one non-registration state to another, you just put 'em in the trunk of your car (locked up) and go.

[HopeHoops]

29. Well I knew about the "licensed dealer" part, but I thought they had to do the shipping.

On Edit: It doesn't matter. A few years passed between when my F-I-L put them in storage with the dealer and when we moved back to PA from NH so they never actually left the state (other than the shotgun).

[We_Have_A_Problem]

21. Uh - no....

Dont know who fed you that line of crap, but it most assuredly is crap.

[Hoyt]

5. I don't consider such precautions as "backward." But, lax gun laws are in a modern society.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

7. Registration laws are not only backward....

...but arguably illegal and provide no benefit at great cost.

[safeinOhio]

14. If the LEO in the story used his

department handgun, it was registered.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. What is it a precaution for?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

4. I don't hunt food and I have a "sniper rifle"... I don't think being vegetarian factors into it.

I just like shooting at paper targets at the range. It's a challenging and very fun way to spend a day. It's got nothing to do with shooting any animals. In fact, at over 40" long and nearly 15 pounds it's make a poor choice for self/home defense too. I might hunt with it someday... but it's a little bulky for carrying around too.

Also, almost no states require registration of guns despite their age.
Even if your guns were brand new they'd likely not be registered.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

10. Define sniper rifle in a way that meaningfully differentiates it from sporting arms

Note that marksmanship is a shooting usage.

[AtheistCrusader]

12. And a 'deer rifle' that can't penetrate through 2-3 humans standing in a row.

[Abin Sur]

23. According to the VPC, any rifle that is called a sniper rifle by the following sources *is* one.

http://www.vpc.org/graphics/snipcov2.pdf

"If a manufacturer, a book about sniping written by a recognized expert, a trade magazine, or industry advertising calls
a given firearm a “sniper” or “counter-sniper” rifle, we consider it to be a sniper rifle."

That's quite the definition for use in proposed legislation!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

25. So if I wrote an article/ book as a recognized expert and said it was not good as a sniper rifle it

would not be one?

Cool. I know I could whip out in ebook in a weekend and really "help" with the definitions.

[Abin Sur]

26. Could you "de-list" the British No. 4 Mk 1(T)? They're rather pricey right now,

and if it was no longer a sniper rifle I might be able to afford one. (they go for 4 to 8 thousand right now...!)

[ProgressiveProfessor]

27. How about anything in 338 Lapua

It is all California civilians can get in terms of serious long range shooting.

[Abin Sur]

30. California civilians can still purchase the .510 DTC and and .416 Barrett

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.510_DTC_Europ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.416_Barrett

The absurd .50 Caliber BMG Regulation Act of 2004 only outlaws the sale of rifles chambered for the .50 BMG cartridge as such.

[rl6214]

17. Where do you live that you have to register your firearms.

[PavePusher]

19. Your profile says you reside in PA.

Your guns are not "registered" because there is no registration in PA, just as in most of the country. There is no Federal registration for non-NFA firearms, and each state gets to decide on its own. Most decide it's not worth the trouble and expense because... it isn't.

[spin]

22. I own a small collection of firearms most of which are modern and none are registered ...

If I want, I can drive to the local hardware store today and buy a new handgun and a very accurate hunting rife and bring both home with me. Neither weapon will be registered.

The reason that I can do this is that I live in Florida where there is no firearm registration and I have a concealed weapons permit which enables me to avoid a waiting period. I still have to pass the NICS background check.

You might call the hunting rifle a "sniper rifle" however in reality it is merely a rifle capable of shooting accurately at a long range. Even a WWII Mauser made in 1941 can be very accurate when coupled with a modern scope.

Watch this video: WWII German 98K rifle at 900 yards http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8B4Me5HXNo&feature=watch_response_rev

[Maine_Nurse]

15. Sorry, I have more firearms and combat training than most non-swat, non-ex-infantry police

why should only they be allowed? Hell, around here, most lifelong civilians have more firearms experience than many officers. My kid is an officer and a large percentage of his work buddies never fired a handgun prior to the Academy. A large percentage of civilians around here have been using handguns for hunting and plinking since they were kids.

[iverglas]

16. I'm extremely confused

both by your post and by the lack of comment in the thread about the actual subject matter. Maybe nobody read the link, and since you didn't have the courtesy to quote any of the material there or even offer a subject for discussion, allow me:

An off-duty police officer shot and wounded a man trying to break into his Brentwood home Tuesday morning, police said.

The confrontation was reported about 11:40 a.m. at a home in the 1800 block of Fiorita Way, said Brentwood Lt. Tom Hansen.

The injured suspect was struck in the abdomen and taken by helicopter to the hospital, Hansen said. Police released few details about the shooting. Authorities would not name the agency the officer works for or give the condition or name of the suspect.

... Several police agencies responded, and the shooting will be investigated by the Contra Costa District Attorney's Office, as is typical with officer-involved shootings, as well as Brentwood police and possibly another police agency, Hansen said.

Meanwhile, neighbors gathered at the taped-off police line and noted that any would-be burglars picked the wrong neighborhood to strike: At least three police officers live on the block where the shooting happened, with another four living on the block around the corner.

Is this not a classic example of scum forfeiting their right to life by entering someone else's home uninvited?

Had the householder been an electrician, would everyone not be wondering why he merely wounded the thug?

In those "castle doctrine" states, the police would be precluded from even laying a charge, if they were satisfied that the householder knew that the person he shot was breaking into the house.

In this case, what seems to be a rather thorough investigation has been undertaken.

[AtheistCrusader]

18. I think an investigation is a good thing.

Never know what might have been going on.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

24. In some states, LEOs are instantly "on duty" if they intervene in a crime in progress

That would make this an officer involved shooting, which has different procedures. Not clear what would happen if the department standards and Castle Defense disagreed in a case like this one.

In Castle Doctrine states, investigations are still done to ascertain the facts, regardless of whom the homeowner is and what job they hold.

The lack of good marksmanship by your average cop is not a surprise as has been discussed here often times in the past.

[iverglas]

28. yeah, blah blah

My confusion was about the total absence of a standing ovation for the poor householder.

[ManiacJoe]

31. Some clarifications.

> Is this not a classic example of scum forfeiting their right
> to life by entering someone else's home uninvited?

No, this would be the classic example of scum choosing to be shot instead of surrendering or fleeing. Since there is no info about what happened inside, we can only presume that the homeowner's training kicked in.


> Had the householder been an electrician, would everyone not be
> wondering why he merely wounded the thug?

No, since the standard is "shoot to stop" not "shoot to kill". Handguns are notoriously poor at killing humans. The vast majority of people shot by handguns survive. Hit in the abdomen would suggest a low hit on the "center of mass"; maybe the homeowner needs a bit more practice at the range?


> In those "castle doctrine" states, the police would be precluded from even laying
> a charge, if they were satisfied that the householder knew that the person he
> shot was breaking into the house.

There are a few more conditions that need to be met. The first being that the illegal entry must be a forceful one.