Police: Teen had loaded gun in waistband during class (TN)

[jpak]

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20111112/NEWS03/111111012/Police-Teen-had-loaded-gun-waistband-during-class?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE%7Cs

A 16-year-old junior at Stratford High School was arrested Friday for carrying a loaded nine millimeter semi-automatic pistol in his waistband during class, Metro Police said.

Another student at the school told authorities that the 16-year-old had the gun hidden under his sweatshirt, police said.

It was found during a search of the teen in a hallway. The gun contained an ammunition magazine loaded with 12 rounds, police said.

<snip>

During a police interview, the teen told officers that he had the gun for protection and claimed to have bought it a couple of months ago, they said.

<more>

[MADem]

1. Little shit--if he'd shot his dick off, he wouldn't have quite such a swagger.

It'll be interesting to learn from whom a sixteen year old child bought a gun. I'm thinking it wasn't at the local Guns-n-Ammo outlet.

[TheWraith]

2. It's illegal for anyone under 21 to buy a handgun, anywhere.

It's also illegal for anyone under 18 to receive one as a gift.

[midnight]

4. Wraith I'm not familiar with this law, but look at this:

A person under age 18 may not possess a handgun or handgun ammunition, and it is illegal for a person to provide a handgun or handgun ammunition to a person under age 18, except for target shooting, hunting, or certain other exempted purposes. (Youth Handgun Safety Act, 1994)http://www.nraila.org/issues/factsheets/read.aspx?id=43

[TheWraith]

12. Right, that's to cover certain circumstances where they might learn to use a handgun.

But it's still illegal for them to personally possess the handgun, or to have it without adult supervision. In other words you can teach your 16 year olds to shoot a handgun for fun, self defense, hunting, etcetera, but they can't have one to keep.

[MADem]

5. I kinda figured that to be the case.

So...he either swiped it or bought it off some shitbird on the street.

[TheWraith]

13. Correct.

It's vaguely possible he got someone over 21 to buy it for him (which is in itself yet another crime) but I would bet that he probably stole it from somebody, most likely family.

[iverglas]

17. "bought it off some shitbird on the street"

Yeah, and it will show up insome survey of prison inmates as "bought on the street" and used as evidence that bad guys get their guns from other bad guys ... none of whom ever, ever got them from licensed dealers or lawful owners, nooo, they just go from bad guy to bad guy, round and round in a big circle, a Moebius strip of guns and bad guys ...

[MADem]

25. What are you saying? That a sixteen year old kid bought it at a gun store? Be clear. NT

[iverglas]

28. what are you saying? that I said a 16-yr-old kid bought it at a gun store?

Be clear.

For pity's sake.

He may well have bought it at a gun store -- by having someone engage in a straw purchase for him, in which he made the selection in advance and supplied the funds.

But rather obviously, my point was that nobody ever wants to look behind that "bought it on the street" meme.

How do guns get to the street?

Thefts from owners who refuse to secure their guns.

Purchases from non-licensed vendors at gun shows.

Private purchases from legal owners who transfer to ineligible people.

Guns have to get from legal owner to illegal owner somehow.

Nobody here ever wants to talk about that part. That would mean talking about how to prevent it happening.

[MADem]

29. If you want to discuss securing guns appropriately, DO SO.

If you wanted to talk about straw purhases, non-licensed vendors, and all of the other "bought it on the street meme(s)" then go on and just DO that.

Don't go ragging on me because I can't read your doggone mind.

:eyes:

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pipoman]

35. All of which are already illegal, the latter 2 are federal crimes..

"Thefts from owners who refuse to secure their guns.

Purchases from non-licensed vendors at gun shows.

Private purchases from legal owners who transfer to ineligible people."

Even a minor taking a gun from a family member who wasn't storing it properly often results in state charges, 'child endangerment' and the like. Should it be super duper illegal? Or are you alluding to some other 'reasonable' solution?

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AtheistCrusader]

42. That survey of prison inmates should reveal purchases at gun shows as well

if it were happening. It's not. You are more likely to find a 'shitbird' purchasing a firearm from a shady FFL dealer, than at the gun shows.

Have you ever been to a gun show in the US? You can't spit without hitting an on-duty officer, 3 off-duty officers and 6 retired police officers. The places are literally CRAWLING with cops. (At least, here in Washington they are)

Not exactly a place some 'shitbird' wants to hang out. I pity any poor bastard that tries to shoplift at one of our shows. Just about guarantee they aren't getting away with it.

[RSillsbee]

46. Pretty much the same in Co Springs as well

Plus the ATF likes to set up a "PR" booth and wander around the show.

[iverglas]

50. lordy jeezus

You are more likely to find a 'shitbird' purchasing a firearm from a shady FFL dealer, than at the gun shows.

And you are even more likely to find them purchasing at second or third or further removal from the original ineligible transferee from someone in lawful possession.

Firearms purchased at gun shows ARE trafficked. They are bought by eligible purchasers expressly for that purpose.

So if someone buys a gun on the street in NYC that was purchased at a gun show in Ohio and trafficked into NY state, that purchaser is going to say the gun was bought "on the street". That tells nothing about how it GOT to the street.

It really didn't fall from the sky into the hands of the ineligible person who sold it on the street.

[gejohnston]

51. or

Lordy Jeezus? Never had you as a tent revival attending type.

Baal is great

could have been stolen from a police armory. LAPD seems to have a problem with that lately.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/10/17/submachine-guns-pistols-stolen-from-lapd-swat-training-site/

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/29/local/la-me-swat-20111029


http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/685589/more_nypd_corruption:_now_they're_selling_illegal_guns/

IIRC, one or two of these have been found at a Quebec crime scene:

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local/indiana&id=8364659

[iverglas]

52. "one or two of these have been found at a Quebec crime scene"

Yes? I have no idea. Three people were killed by somebody with a submachine gun in the Quebec legislative assembly in 1984 ... he was military and got it from that source ...

So where did they come from?

If stolen from a domestic "collector" with a grandfathered entitlement to possess a prohibited weapon, more grist for my mill, I guess.

If from outside the country ...

[gejohnston]

53. not likely collector

only two legally owned SMGs have been used in crimes since 1934 in the US. One a cop and one a doctor, both using .45 MAC-10s.

The original article did mention some of those MP-5 showing up in Quebec and Ohio.

[iverglas]

54. I really just have no idea what we're talking about

If the thing isn't available in Canada then it was trafficked into the country. No clue.

[gejohnston]

55. it was trafficked

some cops bought a shipment using PD funds, registering them to the PD, but "forgot" to mention it to the dept armorer. Sold them on the black market for their own profit. There might be a few prohibited licence holders with some, but not counting on it. No, they are not sold at canadaammo.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_MP5

[SteveM]

48. That's right. Already a law against that. What's the OP's point? nt

[midnight]

3. Is it one of those carry and conceal states?

[hack89]

6. Irrelevant - no one that age can legally own or carry a handgun. nt

[spin]

9. Wrong. You can legally carry a concealed handgun in Vermont at age 16 ...

Vermont Concealed Carry Permit Information

Concealed Permit:
It is lawful to carry a firearm openly or concealed provided the firearm is not carried with the intent or avowed purpose of injuring a fellow
man. There is no permit required to carry concealed.

Requirements:
1. Be of age. In the state of Vermont, that age is 16 or older. You must be at least 16 years of age to legally purchase a gun and keep it loaded on your person in public.
2. Obtain permission from a parent or guardian to carry a gun if you’re under the age of 16. Failure to do so may result in being deemed a delinquent child by the state.
http://www.usacarry.com/vermont_concealed_carry_permit_information.html

[gejohnston]

11. wouldn't the 1994

federal law trump it?

[spin]

24. Apparently not ...

This subject is discussed in the forum on the opencarry.org forum at http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?82633-Could-my-18-year-old-son-legally-carry-a-handgun-in-Vermont

One post mentions that the Feds simply don't care unless another crime in involved.

[hack89]

27. Good to see one state has it right. nt

[spin]

8. The incident occurred in Tennessee which requires an individual to be 21

to apply for a concealed carry license. (ref: http://www.tn.gov/safety/handgun/qualifications.shtml)

[gejohnston]

10. he already violated a couple of federal laws

what difference does it make?

[Hoyt]

7. I guess gun toting daddy and neighbors set good example for kid carrying gun "for protection."

Bet he grows up to be an NRA member and all that.

Will be interesting to see where he bought it.

[ManiacJoe]

14. What lead you to jump to that conclusion?

I guess gun toting daddy and neighbors set good example for kid carrying gun "for protection."

You would seem to be assuming facts not in evidence.

[Hoyt]

16. Oh, so you think gun toting parents and neighbors don't influence kids?

The sooner guns in public are viewed as "taboo," the better.

[ManiacJoe]

18. Parents and neighbors most definitely influence kids.

My point is that your statement about his parents and neighbors being "gun toters" is an assumption based on no facts as presented.

[Hoyt]

19. Why would you jump to conclusion that the kid didn't follow role models?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

22. Why do you offer speculation on what the parents do or do not do.

[ManiacJoe]

23. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem.

I very clearly agreed with you that "kids follow role models." How did you conclude that I said the exact opposite?

[PavePusher]

26. Why do you assume parents are his only "role models"? n/t

[one-eyed fat man]

40. Sure he could have

Like the kid in Michigan who shot his 6 year old class mate with a gun he stole from his uncle's crack house. He was living there with his mother and baby brother cause daddy was in prison for robbery and dealing drugs.

The kid who stabbed another classmate a week earlier.

Somehow I rather doubt his family was what you might call politically active. Their interest in government probably was limited to food stamps and parole officers.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. I had some influence on mine...she openly carries an M-9 and sometimes an M-4

Then again, considering the neighborhood, it is a reasonable thing to do.

[rl6214]

34. I can do that too:

Dad is in jail for drug possesion and dealing. He's already killed a number of people himself. Kid has been in and out of the juvenile system since he was ten. This isn't his first time being caught with a gun but the bleeding hearts in the juvenile system keep letting him skate, this will be just the latest time.

See how that works, I can make up stuff just like you, only I admit I made it up.

[pipoman]

37. Blew soda out my nose on that one..

The sooner guns in public are viewed as "taboo," the better.

How's that working out for ya? Got a time line when we should expect to see this complete 180 from the current, overwhelming sentiment? LOL

[SteveM]

49. "Taboo" is what you want: Tired and failed prohibitionist tactic...

The prohibitionist has a peculiar obsession with shielding eyes and ears from what they believe is "taboo:" Sex, guns, drugs, alcohol, gays holding hands, etc. Seems like more rational arguments fail them.

[spin]

15. I probably set a good example that caused my daughter to get a concealed weapons permit ...

however she had to be 21 to get her carry permit in Florida and she didn't carry a handgun for self protection before that age.

She was damn glad that she had a carry permit when she attracted the attentions of a stalker a couple of years ago. Despite a restraining order he harassed her constantly and often followed her when she left the house. He was fortunate that he never attempted to physically attack her as she would have shot him. She always filed a complaint with the police when she encountered him but they were never able to actually catch him in the act.

The stalker was finally arrested when he made the mistake of being in the restricted area with me as a witness. I testified at his trial and he was sentenced to several weekends in the lockup with a warning that another violation would lead to a year in prison.

He appears to have learned his lesson as no further incidents have occurred.

While fortunately my daughter never had to draw her weapon, its presence gave her a higher level of confidence and security than the other lady who also had a restraining order on the stalker for harassing her at the same time. My daughter is a close friend of this lady who lives just down the street and she often stopped by the house and mentioned how the this man terrified her. It took a lot of effort from my daughter to get this lady to obtain a restraining order as she was frightened that this would cause the stalker to attack her.

My daughter is not an NRA member but I am.

The 16 year old who was caught carrying in a school did not buy his handgun legally as the sale of a firearm to a person under 18 is prohibited in Tennessee. (Ref: http://www.lcav.org/states/Tennessee_State_Law_Summary.pdf#page=7)

[ProgressiveProfessor]

20. More false projections from you. Is that all you have to "contribute"

[aikoaiko]

31. Guessing is really all you have.

[rl6214]

33. "I guess gun toting daddy and neighbors set good example for kid carrying gun "for protection."

Proof or are you full of shit as usual?

[friendly_iconoclast]

41. You are perfectly free to channel Bucky Katt, and you apparently like to do so.

Would that it wasn't while you post here at DU...

[krispos42]

44. Assumes facts not in evidence.

I'm pretty sure that all the gangbangers in LA or NYC didn't learn to stuff 9mms in their pants from their Republican, open-carrying parents with confederate flags tattooed on their arms.

[rl6214]

32. Not enough information

What's your point.

[AtheistCrusader]

43. I had reason to fear for my life in high school.

Involved an incident where I supplied information to a school official that got a student expelled for possessing a firearm on school grounds. Another student overheard my relaying of the information to the head security guard, and told everyone else. Student with the gun later entered into school grounds to confront me on two occasions, even though it meant criminal trespass.

I am interested to know more about why he felt the need for a firearm for protection. I will not jump to the conclusion that it was unwarranted/unreasonable.



(I do not advocate a kid carrying a gun by any means. Just that the circumstances may prove of interest)

[ileus]

45. Didn't he realize the 9mm won't save you?

I read it on the innerwebs.

[RSillsbee]

47. Shhhh, Army self defense experts don't want you to know that

ETA I actually followed that link once it's and add for some BS online judo class