Can You HATE the NRA and still be pro-gun?

[Logical]

Poll question: Can You HATE the NRA and still be pro-gun?

[rocktivity]

1. It most certainly IS possible to be pro-gun control

without being anti-gun.

:headbang:
rocktivity

[gejohnston]

5. everyone is for control

unless you know someone that thinks a ten year old should be able to buy an M-60 at Wal Mart with no hassle. I don't. Point is, it is more about degree than pro or anti.

[DrDan]

14. a recent poll right here had a number of respondees stating they supported NO restrictions

on gun ownership.

And just in a "conversation" here where one stated that he supported a 3rd grader being able to carry a gun into the classroom - as long as the parent approved.

So - don't think "everyone is for control".

[Remmah2]

23. It's relative.

I think what the pro2A people here mean is no NEW gun control. Plenty of existing control which covers everything out there already. On the flip side I've ready plenty of posts by the anti2A camp which advocates total bans and demonized everything from air-soft toys on up. Ying and yang.

[DrDan]

24. took a quick look for it - couldn't find it - it was about 2 weeks ago

and it asked whether DUers supported restrictions on gun ownership. And there were several (half dozen or so) that said there should be NO restrictions on gun control. None on age, mental competency, past crimes - None.

Did not deal with more or less control.

[Straw Man]

32. I was looking for my unicorn the other day.

Couldn't find that either.

[DrDan]

33. and what are you implying - that I am lying about it? Please just say so.

[jmg257]

34. Nevermind the nevermind...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=479726&mesg_id=480102

No restrictions AND 3rd grade ok...

[Straw Man]

39. OK, that's one.

I'll grant you that, but it's not a "half dozen."

[DrDan]

49. I was referring to the number of respondees - and there were 5 that supported "no restrictions"

[Straw Man]

37. Not at all. You might just misremember.

The point is that in the absence of evidence, your assertions carry absolutely no weight.

[DrDan]

35. well guess what - just happened to find it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=476795&mesg_id=476795

[Straw Man]

40. Could you point to the individual posts?

Or are you referring to the poll result?

[gejohnston]

43. there are several

At least one that I know of supports mandatory NICS on private sales and one that supports NFA as is. I basically support current laws, but would support some amendments.
I think the French and New Zealanders have the right idea on suppressors
I think federal pot prohibition should end and CGA be amended to allow medical pot users to buy.


None has supported firearms rights of most felons (although felons may own firearms in some countries, including Canada. Some European countries, The Netherlands off the top of my head, has no mechanism for mental competency).

[We_Have_A_Problem]

27. No it isnt.

The two positions are polar opposites.

[gejohnston]

2. can certainly hate the assholes

and nut cases that run it. Am I the only one that thinks Grover Norquist is there just as a distracting culture warrior and really doesn't give a shit about guns?

[SteveM]

45. Probably right about Norquist...

I believe that the canary in the coal mine for democracy is when major right-wing figures come out with a concerted push for gun-control, and not just the William Bennetts and Krauthammers.

[Simo 1939_1940]

48. Yes indeed! I believe this to be an incredibly important

and under-discussed point!

Do gun restriction supporters really believe that U.S. corporations want an armed populace? Really?! Have they not figured out that the GOP will reverse it's position on gun rights overnight to protect the interests of the corporations they serve if they think they can get away with it?

[BiggJawn]

51. I wonder how often the unshaven troll goes out and shoots?

Most the well-known people on the NRA board I can understand why they're there. Tom Selleck, R. Lee Ermey, Chuck Norris, sure, but GROVER NORQUIST?????

Just another income stream for him...

[gejohnston]

55. He probably shoots as often as I

play golf, once in my life. If anything, he might shoot skeet at the country club.

[aikoaiko]

3. Even as an NRA member I can understand why one might hate the NRA while still being pro-rkba

[Euromutt]

8. Quite so

There's a lot about the NRA to dislike, and I say that as a member. I don't describe myself as a "reluctant member" for nothing.

[Betsy Ross]

4. What's pro-gun?

I don't understand what that means.

[rocktivity]

7. To me, it means that while I'm not inteterested in owning a gun and probably never will be

I, as someone who is of legal adult age and doesn't have a criminal record, ought to be able to obtain one -- provided, of course, that I meet certain other criteria and regulations. The nature and extent of that criteria is what I'm willing to discuss. Maybe what I ought to say, then, is that I'm pro-responsible gun ownership.

:headbang:
rocktivity

[TalkingDog]

25. It means anti-stupid where guns are concerned.

It's badly phrased... kinda like saying one is pro-car or pro-baseball bat. A wrong emphasis if you will.

All 3 - guns, cars and baseball bats can be used as weapons to kill people. But they can also all be put to productive use.

[iverglas]

30. snork

Guns, the inanimate objects that do no harm, and yet have advocates.

Funny, isn't it?

;)

[doc03]

6. Absolutely, I wouldn't join a rifle and pistol because they

required me to join the NRA.

[Hoopla Phil]

9. Remember, it was the NRA that tried to derail the Parker case

that was later relabeled the Heller case and became known as the Heller decision. The FUCKING NRA is a slimy political organization that has its' own self preservation as its' primary goal.

It was after their crap with the Parker/Heller case that I stopped giving them my money and time.

[mvccd1000]

12. They do the same with nearly any open carry bills

The NRA seems very "pro-CCW" to me, while being either ambivalent or outright against open carry. I often wonder if they get their mailing lists from the ranks of state-issued CCW licenses... how else can one explain the total lack of support for so many 2A issues?

I also dislike their fundraising that's spelled "fear-mongering."

They don't get a dime from me.

[SteveM]

46. Yep, They prefer legislative action, not court action like Cato Institute. nt

[Uben]

10. I don't hate anyone.......

I am very pro-gun rights, but I have never supported any organization that advocates them. I look at it kinda like smoking, if someone wants to kill themselves smoking, they have that right. If someone wants to die because they're afraid of guns, that's their right, as well. To each his own, I pretty much do what I want without regard to what critics think. And, I've done pretty damned well so far.

[Common Sense Party]

11. I don't HATE them, but I have ZERO interest in joining them.

They offer some good training, which I may take at some point. But most of their political activism veers toward demagoguery for me.

Plus, I'm just not a joiner.

[Enthusiast]

13. I'm pro-gun and anti-NRA.

I also do not believe there is a huge liberal plot to take the guns away from American citizens. This is a political wedge issue created by the NRA and the Republican Party.

[2pooped2pop]

15. can you hate organized religion and still be spiritual?

Of course you can. Of course.

[Remmah2]

18. Sort of like cutting out the middle man.

I know people who go to church on Sunday's and don't do a thing beyond their hour obligation. Then I have friends from the soup kitchen I volunteer at who've never been to church. I've learned a lot more about about life and death from working at the second.

[2pooped2pop]

19. exactly n/t

[ileus]

16. Last time I was a member was 92 or 93....

I don't hate the NRA but I don't plan on being a member. I have zero use for fund drives from anyone...if I want to donate I'll do it without phone calls and mailers.

[pipoman]

17. NRA = 4.3 million members,

80 million plus households with guns..there's your answer..

[jeepnstein]

20. Hate is such a strong word.

And words have meanings. So I can't say I hate them.

I do not care for their political action committee because I believe they have their heads firmly planted in their backsides. My best example was the night the guy called me about the impending U.N. invasion to confiscate our guns. I asked him where he wanted me to meet with the rest of the resistance fighters but all he wanted was me to give money. I don't think they were really all that concerned about the invasion after all. So their political action committee is a raging joke. They'll endorse Democrats and have done so for several of my candidates but they won't spend money on them. If they endorse a Republican they'll run an ad which basically states that the Democrat candidate is Satan himself. I've seen them endorse statist Republicans who would have no qualms with suspending every civil right on the books over a Democrat with a gun in his back pocket. I think they do their research by watching Fox News.

They have done great things for shooting sports in my area. They funded improvements to the rifle range at our local Boy Scout camp which greatly enhanced safety and shooter comfort. Since I'm a BSA shooting sports instructor I really appreciate every little thing I can get for my kids.

[Upton]

21. The NRA supports my 2nd Amendment rights..

that's all I want out of them. When you find a pro gun progressive organization with the size and advocacy ability of the NRA let me know. Until then, I'll take the NRA..at least they're looking after my RKBA..

If you want the political wing of the NRA to change and become more Democrat friendly, expose the anti gun authoritarians within the Democratic party, and work to have the party embrace ALL our constitutional guaranteed civil liberties.

As has been pointed out to you on numerous occasions in the past, there is no specific criteria, other than support for the 2nd Amendment, for a candidate, be it Democrat or Republican, to receive high marks from the NRA..

[Simo 1939_1940]

31. Well articulated. +1.

I used to hold a fairly neutral position w/regard to the "patriotism" of car buyers so many years ago who purchased imports while the U.S. was serving up garbage. Now I see those buyers as the true patriots - as they forced the American auto makers to improve quality.

Likewise, I believe that fighting back against the dishonest and hysterical positions of our party w/regard to gun control will ultimately serve to benefit the party.

[mistertrickster]

38. I also agree there are some dishonest and hysterical positions on the Dem side. nt

[mistertrickster]

36. The right of the gov't to form a militia?

The NRA doesn't speak for this gun owner / collector. I have no problem with testing guns for safety, for a national registry of guns, for ballistic finger-printing of guns.

Maybe if we had some of these common-sense controls to help fight gun crime (& theft), we'd be rid of the restrictions that do nothing, like forcing people to ship guns through 01 FFL "dealers" who fill out a few meaningless forms for 20 to 40 bucks a pop.

[jmg257]

41. By 'gov't' you mean the state governments, right?

And then of course it is not a right of those governments, the people say it is a "necessity" - for a free state...constitutionally speaking. Not only it is a right for the people to be armed, but mandatory for the people to be armed with militia grade weapons and all that.

[mistertrickster]

54. Right. And militias only make sense if you get rid of the standing army,

which the Founders HATED the idea of.

So let's disband the military as we know it.

(sarcasm)

[MicaelS]

44. Sorry, I'll trade shipping to an FFL for $40 any day..

Over what you describe as "common-sense controls".

[mistertrickster]

53. Because you don't want gov't to have information of who owns what guns?

How much money you make and how much taxes you pay, where you work, what your social security number is, your complete medical history (once you're on Medicare), how many and what cars you own, your address and home ownership status, etc. etc. are fine.

Just don't give those fascists my gun info!

[Atypical Liberal]

22. Can you hate MADD and still be anti-drunk driving?

Of course you can hate the NRA and still pro-gun.

It would be silly, though, to hate the most powerful pro-firearm entity in the country and the one responsible for most, if not all, of the pro-firearm legislation in our lifetimes.

The NRA is directly responsible for forcing politicians to honor the right to keep and bear arms.

As individuals, we have no voice. But collectively, we make a difference. It's why I am a member of the Occupy movement, it is why I support Unions, and it is why I am a member of the NRA. Collective action works.

[krispos42]

26. Yeah.

I started getting calls from the NRA a couple of months ago, probably because I'm a subscriber to a couple of gun magazines.

I accidentally answered yesterday... I was on the phone with my boss when the "beep" came through. We were waiting for a phone call from my mom's doctor, so I clicked over and a lady with a strong southern (probably Texan) asked for Mr. Krispos. I asked "which one?" and she replied "this is so-and-so from the NRA..."

I was like oh, shit! Dammit!, so I said "Oh, no no no, no thanks" and clicked back over.

They haven't called back yet, thank god.



The NRA has the merits of they case, they don't need to drum up with race-war, UN-paranoia shit to be correct.

[PETRUS]

28. The NRA is a lobby for the far right and the weapons industry.

But I do think people have the right to own guns.

[MicaelS]

29. Sure you can, but to quite Upton:

When you find a pro gun progressive organization with the size and advocacy ability of the NRA let me know. Until then, I'll take the NRA..at least they're looking after my RKBA.

[ObamaFTW2012]

42. I don't like the NRA

but I don't hate them either. I'm done with being a member, that's for sure. I respect them for their tenacity and their focus on their single issue.

[SteveM]

47. Not a member of modern NRA, that creature of the gun-control "movement."

Gun-controller/prohibitionists have yet to face up to the fact that the modern NRA is a Frankenstein monster which 'rose from their own slab.

Thanks for the poll! It should -- should -- clear up a lot of confusion and b.s. pumped out by some gun-controller/prohibitionists in this forum; i.e., "We are NOT the N.R.A."

[Callisto32]

50. I suppose.

But hate is a total waste of time and energy.

[BiggJawn]

52. "Hate" is a pretty strong word.

My feelings towards the NRA and their nutcases like LaPierre is that they the blow the Chrysler Air Raid Siren of dog whistles to bring Liberal-hating Bubba Murrika running with their chequebooks open.

If they could seperate the batshit-crazy of the NRA-ILA from the education mission of the NRA, I might think better of them.

But "hate"? No, I don't hate them. Don't like much of what they do in the political arena, but I don't hate them.