Ending gun registry could fuel firearms trafficking: government briefing note

[iverglas]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/ending-gun-registry-could-fuel-firearms-trafficking-government-090009082.html

The Canadian Press – Tue, 15 Nov, 2011

OTTAWA - The public safety minister is dismissing a warning from his own department that scrapping the requirement to register rifles and shotguns could fuel illegal firearms trafficking across the Canadian border.

Vic Toews told a Commons committee Tuesday that ending the long-gun registry would not diminish import controls, calling an internal Public Safety memo "factually flawed" and "a bit of a red herring."

But neither he nor his officials could explain precisely how the verification process would work in future.

Of course, the more immediate problem is trafficking of firearms domestically: transfers of long arms purchased within Canada to individuals without licences to possess firearms, via straw purchases and other private sales:

The Public Safety memo says elimination of the registry would "significantly compromise" law enforcement's ability to trace firearms in Canada — for instance, linking a weapon left at a crime scene with an individual owner — or to support foreign police forces trying to do the same.

"In such a scenario, Canada would no longer meet its international commitments relating to firearms tracing and record-keeping."

The transcript of proceedings of the Nov 15 meeting of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Safety is not yet available (awaiting translation and editing):
http://www.parl.gc.ca/CommitteeBusiness/CommitteeHome.aspx?Cmte=SECU&Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=41&Ses=1
I will be checking back to see what the non-extreme-right-wing parties were saying and what the Minister had to say about this issue.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/ci-rc/reports-rapports/traf/index-eng.htm

Current Trends in Firearms Trafficking and Smuggling in Canada
November 23, 2007

Across Canada, handguns remain the most common firearm seized in larger urban centres, whereas long guns are more prevalent in rural areas. The available data indicate that firearms choices vary according to the region of Canada, and are also influenced by availability within the rural or urban settings.

In most parts of British Columbia, handguns are the most common illegal firearm; in large urban centres, the most common type of handgun seized is the semi-automatic pistol.

Long guns are preferred by the criminal element in the Prairies as they are more readily available in rural areas.

In Saskatchewan and Manitoba, cut down/sawed off long guns are commonly used. Also in Saskatchewan, air or pellet guns have been involved in a number of firearms occurrences and seizures.

In Ontario, both handguns and long guns are available throughout the province.

In Quebec, long guns are the most commonly seized firearms, with the exception of large urban areas where handguns are most prevalently seized.

In the Atlantic Provinces, long guns are prevalent, with the exception of large urban areas where handguns are more common.

In the three Northern territories, long guns are the most available illegal firearm.

Of course, long guns are most commonly used by men who kill their present or former intimate partners ... women.

But some right-wing Canadians just don't want people to know the facts.

[LAGC]

1. But iverglas, how effective has the gun registry been?

Haven't even many liberals admitted its largely been an failure and a big waste of money?

[iverglas]

2. what the hell is a "liberal"?

Are you talking about the Liberal Party?

We don't have "liberals" in Canada, and I wouldn't care what they said if we did.

Social democrats, which is who I care about, are fighting the legislation: the New Democratic Party and the Bloc Québécois. So is the right-of-centre Green Party. The Liberal Party, I couldn't tell you what it's doing from one day to the next, and given that it's on the verge of extinction, nobody else much cares either.

No honest person has ever claimed that the registry is either a failure or a waste of money.

Does that help you?

[gejohnston]

3. You are the first person to describe

the Green Party as "right of center.":spray:

[iverglas]

4. no, I'm the person here who knows what I'm talking about

Oddly enough, in a discussion about Canadian politics, I'm talking about the Green Party of Canada.

Feel free to educate yourself.

It was long an arm of the right wing of the Conservative Party in its former incarnation -- in a riding where I lived, the Green candidate one election was the Conservative candidate the next election. It is currently an organ of Elizabeth May's ego, and pretty much nothing else. She actually got herself a seat in the House this time around, having failed to do so multiple times before in a number of different provinces.

Just admit to yourself that you don't know what you're talking about before you decide to do it in public; you'll feel better.

Canada 2011 election


and that's being polite and giving a lot of benefit of the doubt:
"The Greens, with their promises on labour rights and childcare, have moved slightly to the left, countering the otherwise rightward drift of the major national parties."
In other words, they moved far enough left to land dead centre by the politicalcompass reckoning.

Canadian General Election 2008

[gejohnston]

6. never said I knew much about Canadian politics

but it seems that the Conservatives there could have been doing what the Republicans have been known to do here. Fund and run someone as a Green to split the vote.

[iverglas]

8. they definitely were doing that

The riding I referred to was known for being a swing riding with tight three-way races. I actually voted Liberal in two provincial elections there because I bet that the Liberal was more likely to win than my party's candidate and so I voted strategically to make sure there wasn't a Conservative win on a split. The Conservatives were trying to take away the NDP vote at the time because the NDP was stronger than the Liberals; cut into the strongest opponent's share of the vote, make it 33-30-32-5 instead of 33-35-32 and you're in with 33.

Our entire Green Party is opportunist right-of-centre hacks though, getting votes from silly people who don't pay attention, and that isn't actually true in the US.

[RSillsbee]

10. In a discussion about Canadian politics,

We don't care about Canadian politics. Not trying to be a prick but this is by and large an American discussion board

[AtheistCrusader]

5. Canadian politics is all wierd. In fact, just about any nation you go to

one party or another might have a familiar name, but their actions/platform may contain very interested (and often unwelcome) surprises.

[beevul]

7. Just what are they?

"In such a scenario, Canada would no longer meet its international commitments relating to firearms tracing and record-keeping."

Just what are these international commitments described above, and who else do they involve?

[iverglas]

9. so far I haven't been able to find a copy of the memo

Somebody must have it, but the news reports are just the same thing after the same thing.

I'm a little zonked just now from working all night. Give me some time.

There is definitely a lot of cross-border tracing between Canada and the US, but this is done under bilateral agreements and inter-agency cooperation. Go to google.ca and search for

"firearms tracing" "united states"

and then select "pages from Canada" if you want to read up on that aspect. If you find the memo, let me know.