Gun issue represents tough politics for Obama

[Abin Sur]

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2011/11/24/gun_issue_represents_tough_politics_for_obama/

WASHINGTON—They are fuzzy about some issues but the Republican presidential candidates leave little doubt about where they stand on gun rights.

Rick Perry and Rick Santorum go pheasant hunting and give interviews before heading out. Newt Gingrich and Herman Cain speak to the National Rifle Association convention. Michele Bachmann tells People magazine she wants to teach her daughters how to shoot because women need to be able to protect themselves. Mitt Romney, after backing some gun control measures in Massachusetts, now presents himself as a strong Second Amendment supporter.

President Barack Obama, on the other hand, is virtually silent on the issue.

He has hardly addressed it since a couple months after the January assassination attempt on Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson, Ariz., when he promised to develop new steps on gun safety in response. He still has failed to do so, even as Tucson survivors came to Capitol Hill last week to push for action to close loopholes in the background check system.

Democrats have learned the hard way that embracing gun control can be terrible politics, and the 2012 presidential election is shaping up to underscore just how delicate the issue can be. With the election likely to be decided largely by states where hunting is a popular pastime, like Missouri, Ohio or Pennsylvania, candidates of both parties want to win over gun owners, not alienate them.

(more at link)

[county worker]

1. Personally, I say fuck the gun issue. The right uses this as a political tactic

every fucking time. You like guns, fine. Stop bothering the rest of us with your shit! Nobody wants to take your fucking guns away!

Get over yourselves. And yes I own a gun and I used just about every type of small arms the Army had in Vietnam. But I don't have to beat others over the head about it.

[spin]

8. The way to stop the right from winning by using gun control as an issue is simply ...

for our party to stop pushing for draconian gun control.

In a few years, people will laugh at the right when it tries to say that Democrats support taking guns away from citizens.

Unfortunately there will probably always be a percentage of our party that feels gun control is a very important issue and wants to pass laws such as another assault weapons ban or wants to implement foolish feel good ideas such as "micro-Stamp Encoding" on fire arms and ammunition.

We keep shooting ourselves in the foot over this issue just as the right keeps loosing votes on the abortion issue.

[ObamaFTW2012]

22. It's hard to distance ourselves from "Democrats want to take your guns!"

when morons like Carolyn McCarthy and Dianne Feinstein (amongst others) hand damning anti-gun quotes to the right every chance they get. It's almost like they WANT Obama to lose in 2012. I just don't get it. Somebody needs to shut them up or they're going get us stuck with President Romney.

[spin]

23. Agreed. (n/t)

[Callisto32]

40. That is a truly distrubing thought...

*shudder*

[Euromutt]

55. It's not just a matter of "stop pushing"

The party needs to explicitly disavow the policy, or the gun lobby will be able to claim that the Democrats are just biding their time until they regain the political capital they need to take another run at it. And I can't say they'd be wrong to make that claim.

[MicaelS]

15. "Nobody wants to take your fucking guns away!"????

Rubbish, there are several regulars right here on this forum that either want to do so, or else make it so difficult to obtain one it would be a de facto ban.

And some of the most prominent anti-gun members of the US Congress who are Democrats: Schumer, Feinsten, Lautenberg, McCarthy.

Not to mention hypocrites like former mayor Daley, who hated guns yet demanded an armed bodyguard AFTER he left office. How many former mayors get that?

[SteveM]

28. I have been involved with Demo politics since the mid-60s...

and up until the end of that decade, gun-control was not an issue, and no reference I know of was made about guns within the Democratic Party Platform.

Then, some folks started "bothering the rest of us with their shit!" and gun control became front-and-center within the Democratic Party, to such an extent that Bill Clinton in his biography pointed to Al Gore's support of the so-called "assault weapons" ban as the main reason for his loss of the presidency in year 2000. That support for gun-control remains locked in; both Nancy Pelosi and A.G. Robert Holder have both expressed support for reinstatement the AWB -- even after Barack Obama was sworn in! -- and the Democratic Party Platform to this day continues to push for an expanded and permanent ban of "assault weapons."

Rather than 2A supporters "getting over ourselves," wouldn't it be wiser for the Democratic Party to get over its gun-control policies?
IMO, that is the main reason for Guns Forum (the second most posted named forum on DU): To rid the Party of this policy and platform.

[Atypical Liberal]

59. You will note that it is the LEFT that has gun control as part of it's platform.

Gun control is currently part of the Democratic Party Platform.

Gun control was part of the platform that President Obama campaigned on, and it is still up on www.change.gov under urban policy.

If the left would drop gun control, it would cease to be a wedge issue to the benefit of the right.

[bluestateguy]

2. I hope Democrats nominate Brian Schweitzer in 2016

He would be immune to all of the anti-gun charges.

[Paladin]

4. Is That Your Sole Criterion For An Acceptable Democratic Candidate? (n/t)

[bluestateguy]

9. Sole criterion? No, but it is important.

Getting votes from rural white southerners and mountain westerners and Plains staters is a priority, yes.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Callisto32]

41. I'm sorry someone was a superjerk in response to your rational reply.

[spin]

10. I got a telephone call from the campaign for my representative to Florida Congress ...

who is a Democrat a couple of years ago. The beginning of the pitch mentioned how strong his support was for gun rights and how important guns were to people in my area of the state. I voted for him not only because he supports RKBA but also because he does an excellent job.

[Hoyt]

18. Would you vote him out if he supported revoking some lax gun laws? A lot in the gun culture would.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

30. What do you mean exactly?

You think revoking a gun law would offend a gun owner?

Typo or irrational thought?

[Hoyt]

31. You missed word "lax." Hope you are more observant when drawing your gun.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

32. No, i didn't miss it.

A "lax" gun law by your stated standards, would be one which was not restrictive enough. You see, ALL gun laws restrict rather than permit behavior.

Hence, revocation of a law would benefit gun owners.

This is one of those problems you run up against when you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Hoyt]

33. Repeal laws that allow almost any fool to carry a gun -- is that easier for you to understand.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

34. Ah but the laws do not "allow" any fool to carry one.

They create situations in which the state has the authority to penalize those who do improperly.

Any "fool" already can carry one anywhere he wishes. No law will EVER stop that.

Again, actually knowing what you're talking about is usually a good idea. Don't let that stop you though Hoyt. We love the comedy.

[Hoyt]

38. Gun Logic at its most twisted. I'd rather stop some folks from doing it "improperly,"

than penalizing some fool carrying a gun who manages to shoot a baby in the head. Of course, the fool really didn't intend on anything happening when he stuck it in his pocket without any thought as he left home . . . . . just like he does everyday.

[Simo 1939_1940]

39. Just a general *Thank You* here, Hoyt.

We couldn't whup your teams ass without people like you!

:pals:

[Hoyt]

47. Sure thing, Simo. BTW, does Simo refer to the Finnish sniper?

[Simo 1939_1940]

50. Good guess, but no.

My handle honors my grandfather, who fought in the Winter War and shares the same first name with the famed sniper.

[Hoyt]

52. Here's to your grandfather. Do you think he'd support Finland's prohibition on guns in public?

[Simo 1939_1940]

53. Never got to know him, and he never got the chance to

see what a non-issue concealed carry has amounted to - so I really have no way of knowing.

[Hoyt]

54. Finnish firearms laws would be perfect here. You guys can play militia at home, but not in public.

[Simo 1939_1940]

57. Must be a serious drag to be you, inasmuch as the trend

is going in exactly the opposite direction. And will continue to do so.

[Callisto32]

43. I guess they should keep you in mind for an important position at the department of precrime...

[gejohnston]

35. Were you in Strategic Air Command?

Outside of that now defunct organization, if there is no rule against it, it is OK.

[Callisto32]

42. THIS IS NOT HOW THE LAW WORKS!

The common law system presumes you may do something absent a restriction. Thank God it isn't the way you apparently think it is.


Edit: Now, with t.

[Hoyt]

48. So, I suppose we all can carry grenades, anthrax, etc., until we commit a crime?

Why should deadly weapons be different?

Heck, they don't let me carry my machete in public, why a friggin gun?

[Callisto32]

49. WOOSH!

Edit: You are either thicker than molasses in January, or you are being intentionally obtuse. I hope it's the latter.

I'm done trying to have a rational conversation with you, it apparently cannot be done.

[Hoyt]

51. It's difficult having a rational discussion with the 3 - 4% who believe more guns in public is good.

They are as deadly as a grenade, and much more deadly than a sword. Yet, just about any yahoo can carry one.

Like this guy who has worked really hard to train himself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRt_xBl7dLU&feature=related

[tridim]

3. Obama supports the Second Amendment.

Issue closed.

[rrneck]

5. From the home page...

Guns - 474,415 posts. This is the second busiest (most contentious) forum here. It ain't closed. If the president could use it as an issue he would - but he can't without alienating his base.

[DonP]

6. Apparently Lautenberg, Schumer, Feinstein and a few others didn't get your memo

Obama has played that issue smarter than anyone we've had in years. Leave it alone, sign some positive pro gun bills and let it lay.

But we have some senior level people in the party that still think it's 1992 and insist on making it a high profile issue for every election.

If you really think it's "Case Closed", let us know when you figure out how to keep them from shooting their mouth off in front of cameras come re-election season, OK?

And I'm not even including our own more rabid gun control fans in the gungeon that are woefully out of date as well.

[Upton]

7. You've also stated..

"The Obama Administration officially supports legal MMJ" http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2196458#2196463

And we've seen how that's gone. No, this issue is far from closed..

[Tuesday Afternoon]

11. I think he is astute enough to stay out of the fray and busy enough

to be bothered with other issues.

[TheCowsCameHome]

14. No, he's coming to get your guns.

Wayne the idiot Lapierre and his NRA followers seem think so.

[GreenStormCloud]

16. He also claimed the DC gun ban was constitutional.

He takes the collectivist interpretation of the 2nd. RKBA supporters reject the collectivist interpretation. Issue very much open as DC and other cities and states are trying hard to create de-facto gun bans.

[RSillsbee]

19. Obama supports the Second Amendment.

Do you?

[tridim]

27. Of course I do.

[oneshooter]

56. Well he didn't untill he did. And I believe that he will, till he don't. n/t

[DissedByBush]

21. I am wondering on this point

His record and statements before being elected were absolutely anti-gun, he clearly didn't believe in the Second Amendment as an individual right. He disagreed with Heller until the decision, when he switched his publicly stated position.

But President Obama has a pretty good record.

So I have to wonder, did he truly switch positions, was the anti-gun position a lie to get anti-gun Chicago support, or is his current record simply biding his time while the electorate is not showing to be anti-gun?

[spin]

24. Remember that Obama was a Democrat from Chicago which was run by the Daley machine.

If he had expressed any support for firearms he probably would have never held a job as dog catcher.

[SteveM]

29. President Obama would do well to push for the removal of gun-control...

issues, starting with the Party Platform. The Platform still calls for an expanded and permanent "assault weapons" ban.

Do you?

[Ter]

36. So why does he nominate anti-2A Supreme Court Justices?

Both of his appointees are disastrous on gun-rights. He does this so he can can say he didn't push for any new gun-control laws, but the NRA and many others can see right through this.

[Francis Marion]

37. Any evidence to bolster that claim?

Can you give dates, bills, details where Barack Obama voted to support the Second Amendment?

If your statement is valid, there should be plenty of examples where Barack Obama voted to affirm the 2A.

I'd like to know what you know.

[dkf]

12. Taking away guns as unrest spreads throughout the world and even here is a losing proposition.

I hope it doesn't deteriorate to that level here, but who knows.

[TheCowsCameHome]

13. Because Perry, Bachmann, Romney, Santorum, Cain, Gingrich, et al, are whores

Barack Obama is not.

(Mitt Romney ran out and got himself a lifetime membership just so he could say he was one of the boys, and it looks good around campaign season)

What a bunch of douchebags.

[gejohnston]

20. Romney at a shooting range?

That is like me at a lawn party in the Hamptons, Bachmann at a MENSA meeting, Perry in a library, Cain and Gingrich at an ACLU meeting (or a shooting range).

[ProgressiveProfessor]

26. They are all pols

Including our guys. Few if any are more noble or principle driven than the others.

[pipoman]

25. It will certainly be interesting to see if the gun control plank

is still in the platform after the 2012 convention. Also, if it is on O's web site during the campaign. If one is to believe the campaign declarations of candidates and the party goals laid out in their platforms, it would be impossible to deny the likelihood O intended to attempt to push through, at least, another assault weapons ban. So glad he didn't fulfill that campaign promise/party goal.

[Callisto32]

44. LOVE your sig line.

I have been thinking that for a while, finally decided to say something.

[pipoman]

45. It is my favorite line in a movie FULL of really great lines..

[Upton]

46. I've seen Pulp Fiction several times..

though I could be wrong, but doesn't Vincent's actual quote go.. "I'm in big f&#king trouble man, I'm coming to your house" ??

[pipoman]

58. I'm not sure..I'll have to pay attention next time I watch it..

[We_Have_A_Problem]

60. That's an understatement...

I think virtually the entire script is on IMDB as "quotes"...