Another reason to carry a gun......

[Logical]

4 pit bulls destroyed for mauling 2 Calif. runners

VALLEY CENTER, Calif. (AP) — A San Diego County runner who said he had chunks torn from his legs by pit bulls said he thought he would die during the mauling.

"I was dripping blood from all over — my shirt, socks, shoes," Richard Garritson, 21, told the San Diego Union-Tribune on Monday after undergoing surgery.

Garritson and his brother were attacked by a pack of pit bulls as they jogged on a trail late Sunday afternoon about a mile from their home.

Garritson said he was running ahead of his sister, Meagan Garritson, when at least eight dogs attacked. One bit his leg and a second grabbed his other leg, knocking him down, Garritson said.
He yelled for his sister to run as he tried to fight off the dogs, which surrounded him. They snapped at his legs and arms. One bit him under his armpit.

<snip>

http://news.yahoo.com/4-pit-bulls-destroyed-mauling-2-calif-runners-153056708.html

[reggie the dog]

1. i nearly got mauled by wild pit bulls here in france

i yelled "arrete" french for stop and the dog stopped just as it was about to pouce, when i got on my bike the fucker chased me at over 20 km per hour for about 4 minutes. scary fucking shit.

[county worker]

2. Yep, that's what freedom is all about. If you get into trouble it's your fault and you better

be able to blast your way out of it.

That would be the conservative thing to do.

[RSillsbee]

7. What would you have hiom do in that situation? NT

[county worker]

9. Like you said, he should have had the common sense to arm himself!

That reminds me of the line in a Clint Eastwood movie. Little Bill, "You just shot an unarmed man."

William Munny, "Well he should have armed himself if he wants to decorate his saloon with my friend."

You see gun play is the way to go!

Never mind corralling pit bulls or not decorating a saloon with a friend.

[one-eyed fat man]

11. I'd like to see this!

"...corralling pit bulls."

I bet there are people who'd buy tickets to watch that! It'd make a hilarious video on You tube. Watching you strut your stuff in shorts and sneakers corralling four snarling pit bulls.

[AtheistCrusader]

15. I think he means the owners, keeping them fenced in.

[one-eyed fat man]

33. Perhaps

There was also a spate of lady joggers in Colorado attracting the attention of mountain lions. The big cats discovered 110 pounds of protein in gaily colored Spandex was easier to catch than mule deer and didn't come with pointy antlers or sharp hooves.

There may have been a reason our ancestors started toting pointy sticks and sharp rocks. I surmise they were either looking for, or earnestly trying to avoid becoming, supper.

Sometimes all it takes is a small pack snarling dogs to remind people they too are part of the food chain, and not always at the top of it.

[SteveM]

56. Well, if you're in a saloon, you can corral just about anything! nt

[RSillsbee]

12. Where, exactly, did I say He should have the common sense to arm himself?

A link would be appreciated

[ileus]

3. They were just being friendly....unlike a rude toter.

[jeepnstein]

38. Instead of toting a death machine...

perhaps the jogger should have tried establishing dominance over them like they show on the Dog Whisperer? I'm sure the loving owners of the harmless and lovable dogs in this story would appreciate that. Or maybe the jogger could have played dead? Rude toters shooting feral dogs will be the ruination of our great society. Maybe one of our HSLD anti-Rude Toters will make a short video of how to do this for us?

[Gman]

4. Shoot all Pits on sight

[rl6214]

6. Aaaawwww, they're just kind, gentle misunderstood little pooches

Pits never hurt anyone, neither do Dobermans.

1. Pit Bulls

2. Rottweillers

3. German Shepherds (I own 2)Neither have ever hurt anyone.

4. Siberian Huskies (I used to own 2) Neither ever hurt anyone, male growled at me once

5. Alaskan Malamutes

6. Doberman Pinchers

7. Chow Chow

8. Presa Canario

9. Boxer

10. Dalmation

http://dangerousdogs.net/

[Remmah2]

35. My friends Pit Bulls will drown you in slobber before they bite.

They'll sit on your feet and wedge themselves between your legs if you don't scratch them.

On the flip side, our two German Shepherd dogs were abused rescue dogs. They tend to be over protective of the family. They do not run free. I've lost track of the time and money I've spent building fences over the years to be responsible and securely contain them.

[rl6214]

45. I hear what you're saying

My two shepherds can be with me anywhere without a leash and they are trained to stay right by my side BUT if people come around they don't know I will immediately leash them, that's my responsibility as a dog owner. My young female is very protective of me.

My huskies I had years ago always had to be on a leash even though they were overly friendly, they loved to roam but it is my responsibility as an owner to protect others as well as my dogs.

[AtheistCrusader]

5. Well, that's their fault for not having a spray bottle with some bleach-water in it.

What's a bite force of 350lbs/sq inch between friends? Where's my fucking squirt bottle?

Edit for correct pressure rating.

[ileus]

28. Or carrying a front tire from their bike...

[RSillsbee]

8. Let the record show

I was the first one to say "this thread isn't going to end well"

[Hoyt]

10. Maybe a right wing gun site will interview runners but they'll say "fuck no I'm not carrying a gun."

Sounds like the 2 got out OK. I'm confident that they -- like the 96% who would not dream of packing a gun in public -- will just laugh at the suggestion.

Glad they did OK and didn't utter some BS like "next time I'll stick a 38 in my running shorts using a groin holster."

[rl6214]

13. Didn't answer the last time I asked...

WTF is a "groin holster"?

So you have a think with what men have down the front of their pants now you talk about a groin holster. I think you are on the wrong forum.

[Hoyt]

17. Here you go. Don't run out and get one.

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/member-buy-sell-trade/121450-wts-thunderwear-like-groin-holster-new.html

[AtheistCrusader]

19. Never met anyone that owned one of those.

But you keep right on banging that drum. Enjoy yourself.

[Hoyt]

21. That you know of. You'll wear one in your next marathon, I have no doubt.

[AtheistCrusader]

24. Nah.

I sewed a special compartment onto my camelback that lets me access it without taking the pack off.

[Hoyt]

27. Yea, but you can carry two guns with that holster.

[AtheistCrusader]

32. I have no desire to do so.

I could, but i'd have to bust out the sewing machine again.

[ileus]

25. DC is a great forum....one of my 4 firearm forums I post at.

[DrDan]

34. why do I have this feeling that this is sooooo appropriate . . . .

[jeepnstein]

39. I've used one.

There are times on duty when one needs to REALLY conceal their firearm. Thunderwear is the ticket for such a gig. I wore it in bars when working arrest warrant details with a little AMT .380. It's also a neat way to conceal a body wire and I used it that way several times as well. It's really no different than the money belt I wear when traveling abroad.

Of course a real HSLD operator who can field strip a 1911 under water would know all about so-called "Mexican" carry. It's quite common in law enforcement circles.

[AtheistCrusader]

14. I carry when running.

Of course, I had to get a scandium frame revolver to have something light enough to do it, but I can stop a dog, no problem.

[Hoyt]

16. Not impressed.

[AtheistCrusader]

18. Carried it through marathons, in fact.

No problemo.

[Hoyt]

20. Why the crud would anyone carry a gun when running with a bunch of people?

[AtheistCrusader]

23. because you jump to entirely too many conclusions.

I've run 2 ultra marathons this year, that led far away from anything you'd recognize as civilization, and one was with less than 20 people. I didn't see anyone for 4 hours, on trails in the woods.

Not all marathons are the Boston Marathon, you know. I've run with as few as 20 people, as far as 39 miles, well outside populated ares, and unsupported.

Edit: and what the hell does 'a bunch of people' do to prevent a dog attack?

[Hoyt]

26. I know many gunners are worried about people, just never thought dogs had to be shot unless rabid or

really wild. Oh well, some folks just like to be ready to shoot something.

[friendly_iconoclast]

29. It seems many things are novel to you, like a non-solipsistic worldview...

Even you would have to a lightweight revolver is handier than a bicycle wheel and an air pump.

[Callisto32]

37. You have clearly never dealt with an animal more formidable than a hamster...

at least not in any meaningful way.

[one-eyed fat man]

41. Not a farmer, I take it?

Dogs that run livestock get shot. Dogs that raid chicken coops get shot. What do you suppose ol' Johny Cash was singing about?

http://www.inversecondemnation.com/inversecondemnation/2009/12/to-kill-an-eggsucking-dog.html

Well he's not very handsome to look at
Oh he's shaggy and he eats like a hog
And he's always killin' my chickens
That dirty old egg-suckin' dog

Egg-suckin' dog
I'm gonna stomp your head in the ground
If you don't stay out of my hen house
You dirty old egg-suckin' hound

Now if he don't stop eatin' my eggs up
Though I'm not a real bad guy
I'm going to get my rifle and send him
To that great chicken house in the sky

Egg-suckin' dog
You're always a-hangin' around
But you'd better stay out of my hen house
You dirty old egg-suckin' hound

The link should take to the case where the long standing tradition of shooting "egg-sucking hounds" is upheld. You really have lead a sheltered life. You need to get out of your mother's basement more often.

[Hoyt]

46. No issue with shooting wild dogs on your farm. Or do like my brother, and use a donkey.

Get a good donkey who will chase dogs/coyotes off your farm, and often stomp the crap out of them. But, that wouldn't be as much fun for you.

In any event, shooting a dog chasing your bike is very different from protecting your farm (or getting in a little target practice).

Actually, I'm familiar with "biscuit eaters."

[one-eyed fat man]

62. Fun?

What's fun is the encroaching ex-urban idiots buying gentrified five acre hobby farms. Morons who couldn't grow mold on month old, half-eaten, tuna salad sandwich, but have "farm" plates on their Range Rover. The ones who buy next to century old working farm, discover pigs smell and start suing. The same ones who complain in letters to the editor when "Amish exhaust" gets on the Prius demanding the county do something about road apples.

When little Susi loses interest in the pony she wanted, the feed bills get troublesome and they dump the hapless creature in the National Forest without a second thought. In fact, a pox on all those townies who think the end of the highway is the perfect place to dump their unwanted pets.

Yes, I have shot dogs that were trying to rip a calf from a cow giving birth. They were dogs doing what dogs do when they get into a pack. They were not feral dogs, in that they were born wild. All three had collars, one had tags. The one with tags had an address from a subdivision a few miles away. Odds are all three of those dogs were pets running loose. They had none of the signs of dogs that had been living wild for any length of time. They weren't mangy, loaded with fleas and ticks. They looked like they were in good health except for 170 grains from a .30-30 Winchester.

They had likely done things like this before. Their owners had maybe been mildly curious when their mutt threw up hide and hair. If it wasn't on the carpet, they might not have noticed at all. They are wondering why after months or years of letting them run loose, one evening they just never came home.

[spin]

43. Sometimes I fear you have little understanding of the real world ...

Do you live in an upscale gated community?

Dog attacks jogger, 7-year-old son; jogger kills dog with bare hands
December 14, 2010 2:30 PM

PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. -- A Port St. Lucie jogger used his bare hands to kill a large black Lab-chow mix that attacked him and his 7-year-old son on Southwest Masilunas Street Saturday.

Port St. Lucie police say they interviewed the victim, 32-year-old Josh A. Harris, shortly after the attack and reported him bleeding heavily from the nose with numerous bites and scratches on his face and arms.

The man told police his son was riding his bike in front of him when they approached a home in the 3600 block of SW Masilunas St. Saturday morning. Harris said he was southbound when they noticed the large dog staring at them from the front yard of 3633 SW Masilunas. Harris told his son to get behind him and the now barking dog charged them as they passed the house, lunging and jumping on Harris.

Harris told police he was able to get the dog on the ground after a struggle and held it by its neck to stop it from biting. Police say it's not clear if he choked it to death or broke its neck, but it was dead by the time help arrived.

Read more: http://www.cbs12.com/articles/lucie-4730061-dog-port.html#ixzz1fCmgV9yb

Dog attack

Dog attacks are attacks on humans by feral or domestic dogs. With the close association of dogs and humans in daily life (largely as pets), dog attacks—with injuries from very minor to significant, and severe to fatal—are not uncommon. Attacks on the serious end of the spectrum have become the focus of increasing media and public attention in the late 20th and early 21st centuries.<2> It is estimated that two percent of the US population, 4.7 million people, are bitten each year.<3> In the 1980s and 1990s the US averaged 17 fatalities per year, while in the 2000s this has increased to 26.<4> 77% of dog bites are from the pet of family or friends, and 50% of attacks occur on the dog owner's property.<4>

***snip***

Despite domestication, dogs, like their ancestors wolves, remain cunning, swift, agile, strong, territorial and voracious - even small ones have large, sharp teeth and claws and powerful muscles in their jaws and legs and can inflict serious injuries. The lacerations even from inadvertent dog scratches, let alone deliberate or reckless bites, are easily infected (most commonly by Capnocytophaga ochracea or Pasteurella multocida). Medium-to-large dogs can knock people down with the usual effects of falls from other causes.

***snip***

Although using a firearm against an attacking dog may seem acceptable, laws in the United States which prohibit discharging a firearm in a city, and reckless endangerment may limit the extent to which a person is legally able to defend themselves in this way. Taking such actions where the dog/dogs involved were not acting aggressively towards humans may result in legal charges against the person who shot the animal. No person in the United States has ever been convicted of a crime for firing a gun or using any other weapon to stop or kill a dog that was currently attacking him/her.<8>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_attack

Other suggested reading:

Golden Gate Dog Attacks Have Runners Looking For Answers, But Few Exist
http://sfappeal.com/news/2010/07/ggp-dogs.php

Outdoor Safety Tips for Women: DOG ATTACK DEFENSE
http://www.crime-safety-security.com/outdoor-safety-dog-attack.html

I know people who carry pepper spray for defense against humans and dogs.

Will pepper spray work on bears and dogs?

Pepper spray is effective on dogs and other wild animals. To protect you from bear /dog attacks, purchase bear spray and dog spray that is specifically formulated and clearly labeled for deterring attacks by bears or dogs.

Keep in mind that dogs do not have the same tear ducts as humans, and some dogs cannot flush pepper spray out of their eyes. Because of this, Mace has manufactured a patented Canine Repellent with a lower strength (less than 2% OC) that is EPA approved.
http://www.redhotpepperspray.com/pepper-spray-faq.html#dogs

If I was a runner I would prefer to carry pepper spray as a deterrent against humans or dogs as it is far lighter and more convenient. In fact, I often carry pepper spay as well as my licensed concealed handgun. Not every situation requires lethal force.

Amazon.com carries Sabre Red Spray for less than $10.

http://www.amazon.com/Sabre-Compact-Pepper-Spray-Release/dp/B000UVTDLG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1322669897&sr=8-3

Several years ago we had an aggressive Rottweiler attack a child at a bus stop just down the street from where I live. The dog was never found and for a while while walking our Boston Terrier, I upgraded my carry piece from my S&W Model 642.38 caliber snubnosed revolver to a slightly larger S&W Model 60 .357 magnum. My daughter had contacted the local police chief who told her to feel free to shoot the animal if it attacked. Of course, I was carrying pepper spray as the first layer of defense in case my own ability to defuse an aggressive dog failed.

This same dog had also attacked and severely injured a neighbor's small terrier while it was outside in her yard. The owner was able to save her dog by hitting the Rottweiler with a broom but then the animal turned on her and she was lucky to get both herself and her dog back into her house and get the door closed. She suffered no injury but since she was in her 70s, she was terrified by the incident. I gave her a canister of pepper spray for her defense.

The dog was never captured and probably was just passing through our town. The police contacted all the owners of this type of dog in this area of our town including another neighbor of ours but none of these dogs appeared to be the culprit.

[Hoyt]

47. Clearly, your pepper spray is a better alternative. But, few here would "stoop" to that.

[spin]

48. Remember it is the first layer of defense not the last ...

but it definitely is preferable to using lethal force on either a dog or a human attacker. Much depends on the situation.

[AtheistCrusader]

49. I don't generally trust seasoning as a defensive measure.

If it works, great. If not, you're in big trouble if you haven't planned stronger contingencies.

[jeepnstein]

40. Some folks never think outside their own bubble.

If they're urban, they see everything through an urban lens. And they can't be bothered to consider other points of view.

[Hoyt]

50. Like I posted, I've ridden bikes in most rural areas -- never thought of carrying a friggin gun.

I've been places where folks yell at you as you drive buy while they wave their confederate -- or "don't tread on me" -- flags. Would still never carry a gun -- now a machete . . . . . .

[jeepnstein]

54. A machete?

Do you expect the road to be blocked by vines?

[spin]

58. A machete can be a far more lethal weapon than a firearm at close range ...

Watch this video on a Gurkha Kukri.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uJues8TAbk

But it could be argued that this is not a machete. Cold steel makes a Kukri Machete: I imagine the performance would be somewhat similar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaTbOGcsXoE

[Hoyt]

51. Does that mean you leave guns home when you go to city? Bet that's when you strap an extra one on.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

52. Here's a suggestion....

How about, rather than assuming you know what everyone thinks or does, you simply ask?

[Hoyt]

55. I did ask, although it wasn't directed at you.

[oneshooter]

60. Hoyt has that beat. He just doesn't bother to think at all. Saves time that way. n/t

[one-eyed fat man]

42. Herd mentality

He's either hoping that the weak and infirm along the edges get picked off while he crowds into the middle of the pack, or counting on the fact that being part of a target rich environment that random luck causes him to be missed.

A variation on that strategy is taking a fat woman fishing with you in bear country. You know you can't outrun the bear, but you know you can outrun her.

[ileus]

22. Very Impressive choice.

[spin]

44. With any significant caliber (38+P and up) a scandium frame revolver ...

has a nasty recoil but you will never notice it in a real life and death situation.

However, the recoil can make practice with the weapon somewhat painful. I carry a S&W Model 642 Airweight loaded with .38+P ammo. This handgun is slightly heavier (3.6 oz) than the scandium Model 340. Often on the range other shooters will ask if they can try it. I've never had a shooter try it a second time even when I offered it to him. I also sometimes carry a S&W Model 60 with a three inch barrel which is a handgun similar in size to my Model 642 but much heavier (more than twice the weight of the Model 340). The recoil level even with hot .357 rounds is pleasant because of the additional weight. Shooters have often asked me to allow them to try this weapon on the range even after they have first fired it.

My daughter carries a scandium revolver, a Model 351PD, but it uses .22 magnum ammo and is pleasant to shoot. It would probably be effective against a dog and perhaps a human who was attacking. I would like to see her carry a larger caliber handgun, but she has confident in and is very accurate with her favorite carry weapon.

[AtheistCrusader]

53. Oh yeah, it kicks HARD.

I normally practice with just regular old .38 special, but I run some +P through it occasionally, so I remember what it feels like.

I suspect the adrenaline in any necessary situation will cancel out any perception of recoil.

[PavePusher]

30. NOTE: "dripping blood" and "undergoing surgery" = "did OK" to hoyt.

That's even more fucked up than your usual bullshit hoyt. You are a vile piece of work.

[Hoyt]

59. If you guys weren't such wusses.

[oneshooter]

61. So you would let them chew on you? What an idiot! n/t

[Callisto32]

36. Making up shit again, eh Hoyt?

[SteveM]

57. Why is your holster groin'? nt

[MicaelS]

31. Aww,, the poor doggies were probably just misunderstood..

They were someone's cute wittle snuggie-wwuggums, and it was probably the runner's fault for acting like something that triggered their normal prey drives. :sarcasm: