If you carry a loaded gun - you are ready, willing and able to shoot someone with it

[jpak]

This cannot be denied

yup

[BiggJawn]

1. Unfortunately, yes.

Doesn't make much sense to carry a handgun if you're not resigned to using it to defend yourself, does it?

And *NO*, I am *NOT* willing to shoot somebody because they "took my parking space". Grow up.

[DrDan]

5. there are those here who are willing to shoot somebody because they

took their ball point pen.

[spin]

52. Interesting. Can you provide a link? (n/t)

[DrDan]

81. I sure can

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=456527#456534

[spin]

84. Thanks ...

I had forgotten about that post. I did make a reply in post 104.

You can legally use a firearm to stop an attack if you honestly feel that ...

your life or heath is threatened.

You can not legally use your concealed weapon to stop an attacker once the attack is over as your health or life is no longer threatened. In fact if you chase the attacker with a handgun, he may be able to shoot you and claim self defense.

This may depend on the state in which you live.

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney nor do I play one on TV.

If I am in a similar situation and a individual demands my money but looks like that is all he wants and he has no intention of seriously hurting me or killing me -- I will just give him my wallet. I can always replace my money, credit cards and my driver's license. I can not replace my life or my health.

However if I honestly feel that the person will attempt to hurt or kill me even if I pass over my wallet, I will use my concealed revolver to defend myself.

Once the situation is over and the mugger is running off either with my wallet or because he decided to run when he saw my handgun, I would not shoot him. He is no longer a threat.

Many posters in the thread said that shooting a person running away after the incident was over was wrong, but as you point out some did feel that the shooter should not face charges. One did mention that he felt the Bic pen on his desk was more valuable than the life of someone who was robbing him. Perhaps in the state where he lives, shooting an individual running away after a robbery or mugging is legal. Even if it was legal in Florida where I live, I would not do it.

I have absolutely no desire to shoot anyone. I will if I fear for my life or my health. I realize that I will have to live with that decision for the rest of my life and it will probably cause psychological problems. I currently sleep well at night and have no desires to suffer frequent nightmares.

[DrDan]

85. thank you for that rational post

I really wonder if posters actually mean it when they say they would shoot someone for something as insignificant as a pen. Or if they were just caught up in the heat of a discussion. I would like to think attitudes as you describe would prevail.

[spin]

86. It's far too easy to post a stupid reply in a heated discussion on the internet ...

I feel many who make such comments would react differently if they actually found themselves in the situation they talked about in a post.

edited for typo

[Atypical Liberal]

101. Reality is not so trivial.

I really wonder if posters actually mean it when they say they would shoot someone for something as insignificant as a pen.

If someone walked into my office right now and took a pen off of my desk and left, obviously, I would not shoot this person.

If I catch someone in my home rummaging around my office desk and they happen to be holding one of my pens, I might very well shoot them.

It's quite simple: I believe in using deadly force to defend property. I'd shoot someone trying to steal my television or my DVD player. Once you make the decision that defend your property (assuming it is legal where you live), then it's pretty silly to imagine a real-life theft situation where you have the luxury of considering the value of the item you think is currently being stolen.

So in the end, theft is theft. If I catch someone in my home stealing stuff, I'm not going to compose a mental inventory of values and try to decide whether the criminal's life is worth it or not. They have already made that value determination themselves.

[Atypical Liberal]

100. Theft is theft. If you value your life the same as a pen, that's on you. n/t

[jpak]

10. But people have posted their Gun Hero Fantasies here

They long to "defend" themselves

yup

[ProgressiveProfessor]

38. PPOSTFUP

[jpak]

50. please explain that letter salad

:D

[friendly_iconoclast]

62. The first two stand for "Provide proof", which you haven't

A not-unusual event where you're concerned...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

67. Or Shut The F**k Up

[rl6214]

103. The only "gun hero" fantasies here are yours.

your words "gun hero" your fantasies.

[hughee99]

2. Steven Hawking can carry a loaded gun.

Your conclusions do not necessarily, logically follow.

[William769]

3. Yes. thats why I carry it.

I am a firm believer in being tried by 12 (if it comes to that), than be carried by 6.

[Gman]

11. That is so fucking lame

[William769]

15. And I'm still here to post it.

As a Gay man I don't let no one fuck with me. The only protection I get is from myself.

[ileus]

30. Preach it my friend....so many would rather you be a victim.

It's morally superior after all.

[Union Scribe]

65. You are quickly becoming my favorite poster.

I find myself uttering a lot of "fuck yeah"s out loud when you're in a thread :)

[William769]

82. Thank you.

I just speak my mind.

[DWC]

4. You are right about being ready and able BUT...

being willing or not is entirely based on the actions of Bad Guys.

I absolutely confirm that, if you meet me on the street, I will be prepared to defend myself if necessary even if I do not look like it.

Semper Fi,

[jpak]

7. Are you going to meet me on the street and defend your bad self against little ol' me?

:rofl:

[ileus]

21. are you planning to attack him?

[jpak]

25. Nope - but his post can be read as a call out

and just by posting anti-GOP/NRA positions in this forum - many of the Hive consider that a "threat".

zzz zzzzzzzz zzzzzz

yup

[ileus]

31. Uh....yeah.........

You really believe that shit don't you.

[PavePusher]

44. Are you high? n/t

[ileus]

45. careful you seem to be threatening him.

:)

[PavePusher]

46. Only his stash...

:rofl:

I need... chips...

[SteveM]

47. zzz zzzzzz -- a little passive aggressive "hero" fantasy yourself? nt

[DonP]

56. No, no, that's Hoyt that wants to conduct citizen detainment ...

he's the one with the hero fantasy ... by chasing down anyone with his sword/machete that he thinks might be carrying to assure that they have the correct papers, you know, Gestapo style.

Jpak just whines online about how horrible things are. The common thread is both of them do nothing to actually support gun control.

[ObamaFTW2012]

71. Are you threatening me?

I need teepee for my bunghole. I have no teepee. Chimichanga. Titicaca.

[DWC]

89. That depends entirely on your conduct n/t

[geckosfeet]

6. Point being?

How about if I keep a loaded gun in my desk? Next to my bed? In my car?

How about an unloaded gun with a full magazine nearby?

What if the gun is unloaded, magazine is empty, but a box of ammunition is at hand?

How about the case where a gun is unloaded but in a locked safe?

How about the case where a gun is loaded but in a locked safe?

What if I am at a target range, have a loaded gun (or guns) and am actually SHOOTING!!? Lookout people - the worst of all possible cases - a rampaging target shooter.

[jpak]

8. Gun toters are not "victims"

yup

[Hangingon]

12. We do try not to be "victims?.

A joy to un rec.

[jpak]

13. But many embrace "victimhood" to justify Castle and guns-everywhere-all-the-time Laws

yup

[geckosfeet]

19. Someone is embracing the 'victim' meme. Looks like you from where I am sitting.

[Oneka]

96. If I get violently,physically attacked,

either in my home or anywhere I have a right to be, does it make a difference whether I am armed or not?
Am I not still a victim of a violent physical attack either way?

[ileus]

37. We refuse to be victims.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[geckosfeet]

18. WTF

[We_Have_A_Problem]

98. We try not to be.

Thank you once again Captain Obvious. Anymore "education" you would like to share?

[ileus]

22. why do abuse society with your sick baser toter gunner lifestyle?

:)

[Gman]

9. You weren't taught very well, were you?

I was taught the same only if you point a gun at someone, and that was an absolute last resort. I wasn't taught to dwell on the power part as you are. I was taught it was nothing to be proud of. I was taught by a Marine that saw lots of action in the South Pacific in WWII. You must read some porn like Soldier Of Fortune Magazine.

[William769]

17. I am retired law enforcement that worked the streets of Miami.

Whats your point?

[Kablooie]

14. Not necessarily...

If you carry a gun but have no training or experience, you are probably just holding it for a bad guy until he can grab, and shoot you with it.

[ileus]

20. I carry a loaded gun - I'm ready, willing and able to save someone with it.

This I won't deny.


Yup

[jpak]

23. Gun Heroism

my point exactly

yup

[ileus]

27. Has nothing to do with "heroism" and everything to do with safety.

The safety of my family it P1....I carry to protect them from anyone that may desire to harm them. Your mileage may vary...

Anyone that carrys a SF firearm carries for safety. Refuse to be a victim...

[jpak]

35. Use a gun to "save" someone? How heroic

yup

[PavePusher]

43. Why are you so anti-Citizen-defense?

Are you rooting for the criminals? If there's another explaination, I don't see it...

[Hoyt]

53. More BS about how you are going to save people with your gun.

[PavePusher]

24. So-o-o-o..... Does your... assertion... carry over to any other objects/actions...

or does it only exist as a desperate and pathetic attempt to slander armed Citizens with no evidence or support for your claim?

Why do you persist in trying to promote false stereotypes, naked bigotry, idiotic conflations and malicious ignorance on a Progressive website? Isn't that sort of thing more suited to Free Republic?

[jpak]

26. I'll remember that next time the Gungeon cheers another Koch Bros./ALEC/GOP/NRA sponsored gun law

yup

[DonP]

29. You must be joking, with the massive backlash you promised.

You're not actually suggesting that more pro second amdnemnt laws will be passed?

But all the pro gun laws I've seen posted down here have had bipartisan support, including Wisconsin's CCW law. Or did the Koch brothers buy off the Wisconsin Minority leader too?

[jpak]

33. Bipartisan = all the GOP + 1 Dem. That is not"bipartisan" - that's a Fig Leaf

And the Gungeon DOES cheer GOP sponsored gun legislation.

yup

[DonP]

42. So you are saying the Koch Bros. did buy off the Dem minority leader?

[ileus]

34. Chemtrails, HAARP and earthquake machines...

[PavePusher]

41. Odd that you would not encourage the political opposition to be correct more often.

Hatred runs deep it seems.

[SteveM]

48. And remember the next citation of GOP-founded, GOP-led Bradys.nt

[ileus]

28. Are you a progressive, Progressive, Democrat, or democrat....LOL

[PavePusher]

40. I'm a Homo Sapiens.

All else is conditional.

[rrneck]

32. Two out of three = fail. Yup. nt

[ileus]

36. As I always say....safety first, victim later.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

39. Clearly hyperbole and as usual, a lie

At most it means you think you would be able to use it. Until you face that circumstance, you really do not know what you would do. Even with intense training, such as that done by the Army, there are doubts about what an individual will do.

[krispos42]

49. Yeah, that's kinda the point n/t

[spin]

51. If you are attacked in a manner that would lead to serious injury or death ...

and you are unwilling to shoot the attacker, a firearm is useless.

Anyone who owns a firearm for self defense has to be able to honestly answer yes to this question. Could you shoot another person who was attacking you with the object of killing you or sending you to the hospital with serious injuries knowing that you would serious injure the attacker or kill him?

Through the years many people who were considering buying a firearm for self defense have discussed the subject with me and that is the first question I always ask them. Some have thought for a while and said that they never shoot another person. I respected their answer and told them that in my opinion it made them perhaps a superior individual to me as I am willing to use lethal force if truly necessary.

It takes a certain personality to have the ability to kill and that side of your personality must always be under control.

In the animal kingdom, most animals do not kill others of their species with very, very few exceptions. Humans are like animals in this regard, we don't want to kill each other and sometimes we behave like animals, especially in combat.

***snip***

Most sane humans, if given the choice, will not kill their fellow man and are extremely reluctant to do so, despite what holly wood would like you to believe. When they are forced to do so, many can experience a great deal of psychological trauma.
http://www.military-sf.com/Killing.htm

Killing is not always a bad thing. Murder is. In the King James version of the Bible the Sixth Commandment was Thou shalt not kill. (Exodus 20:13) The word "kill" is a mistranslation and should have been murder. Newer versions of the Bible such as the New International Version (NIV) state “You shall not murder."

(You can compare version of the Bible at: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2020:13&version=NIV)

So in my opinion a person who carries a firearm for self defense and is not willing to shoot someone in self defense is a fool. If you are unwilling to shoot someone, don't carry a gun. It may end up being used against you.

[S_B_Jackson]

54. One of the primary questions I had to answer for myself before I chose to get my CHL

"Can I shoot someone, if I believe they represent a danger to myself or others?"

After some soul-searching, and no little amount of thought, the answer I came to was an affirmative. Yes, if someone represents a threat to me/mine, or to others - and there is no other reasonable alternative available to me - I can shoot someone, and likely take their life.

When I was learning shoot under the tutelage of my grandfather - a former Top Kick in the Army during WWII - I was told. Don't own a firearm if you aren't willing to learn how to use it. Don't pick it up, unless you intend to use it. Don't point it at anything you don't intend to shoot. If you shoot, you don't shoot with the intent to "wound".

[michreject]

55. Yes

Nuff said.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

57. if you can post that then I can post this:

Your statement is a load of crap and full of fail.

It is my opinion that it breaks a lot of rules of this website - - in that it is:

Posting broad-brush attacks, rude nicknames, or crude insults toward a group of DU members.

Bigoted/insensitive.

Disruptive and likely to derail an otherwise thoughtful discussion.

Harassment, threats, or advocating harm/violence.

Supporting a non-viable or third-party spoiler candidate in any general election.

Disrespectful nicknames, crude insults, or right-wing smears against Democrats.

Forum-specific or group-specific rule violation for forums and groups with special rules.

[virginia mountainman]

58. If you carry a loaded penis - you are ready, willing and able to impregnate someone with it

This cannot be denied

yup



Their, I put your OP in perspective for you...

[jpak]

60. guilty - as charged

:evilgrin:

[Tuesday Afternoon]

61. ?

I thought you were female :o

[PavePusher]

68. I see an error here...

"ready, willing and able to impregnate someone yourself with it"

There, fixed it for you.... :evilgrin:

[derby378]

59. And, believe it or not, the Republic still endures

Ohmigod! How is that possible?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

63. Absolutely... I don't see the problem with that.

[Oneka]

64. Denied!!

But feel free to post more Bullshit, about folks who carry guns, it's rather amusing.

[PavePusher]

69. OMG!1!!11!

A fucking sniper rifle!! Obviously he's trying to shoot someone running away in the back at long range with a red dot sight.... and it's probably a machine gun too toters'r'bad'yup!




Did I get that right? :evilgrin:

[Oneka]

72. mostly

But that right there, is a "left handed" fucking sniper rifle,and as we all know , left handed guns are more deadly.

[PavePusher]

77. Which is really weird, 'cause in that photo, he appears to be shooting from the right shoulder.

Photo got reversed left-right? :shrug:

[Union Scribe]

66. Your problem is that you think "someone" is really "anyone"

and that's just not the case. Unless you're a violent criminal, I don't think you're going to have an issue around anyone in this thread.

[era veteran]

70. When you let the bolt go forward on a 1911, you may have

stopped the problem with the sound. I have pulled a side arm twice and a long gun twice on people. Two I took into custody and one ran away, and 3 together ran off. I would rather continue this streak if it ever came up again but I could pull the trigger if I felt it necessary. Why in the fuck is so stupid a question even asked.
I watch this forum and I see you post here regularly and sometimes I may agree with you to a point. This seemed to be a post just to stir shit up about nothing. Regardless of your living state of denial we do have the 2nd Amendment.

[PavePusher]

78. Ummm... "bolt on a 1911"?

I know, I know, I'm being pedantic... but it's important around here.

[era veteran]

80. That was tanker talk unless I am senile.

Releasing the slide is correct.
Regardless, in the still of the night it is a scary sound.

Thanks

[PavePusher]

87. Not to be argumentative, but that is at least partly a myth.

There are a lot of people who aren't familiar with the sounds of any firearm action. And movie/TV sound effects are often grossly overexaggerated.

Sorry, being pedantic again... Its' that kind of weekend for me.

[era veteran]

92. No, I did it.

It worked.

[PavePusher]

93. I'm not saying it can't work....

just that one really shouldn't count on it.

[era veteran]

94. Well after you do that part 2 is ready if necessary

I am thinking of buying one. I wish the CMP would sell a bunch. I have just started shooting again and after over 30 years completely away from any gun shop, I was amazed at the # of companies making weapons. Lots of fancy 1911 types.
Always loved shooting that weapon. What a classic.

[oneshooter]

95. Take a look at Springfield Armory's 1911a1

Since Uncle Sugar decided that the 45 WAS a viable combat caliber they have been rebuilding and issuing then to Special Troops.

I have a Springfield Armory 1911a1 and am both surprised and very pleased with it.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=7

Now I shoot my Military Bulleye with it.


Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[DissedByBush]

73. Interesting question

Ready and able? Yes.

Willing? No, not really. But in life you have to do a lot of things you don't want to do out of necessity.

I've had a man in my sights before, in the Army, but I didn't have to pull the trigger (he surrendered, thankfully). So I can say I can easily put a man in my sights if necessary, but pulling the trigger is a different matter entirely.

My real fear is that I might hesitate and an innocent will get killed, possibly me.

[oneshooter]

74. Yes I have. Yes I did. Does not get any easier with repetition.

Thats all I have to say about it.

[ZombieHorde]

75. If you lived in Montana, you would understand how untrue that can be.

Many firearm owners are simply interested in hunting. They don't carry their guns into the woods so they can shoot people. Many hunters do carry their firearms for defense against humans, and many don't. Gun owners are a diverse crowd.

My step-father owned hunting rifles and a .357 magnum, but the only time he thought someone was breaking into his home, he grabbed a bat. (Turned out to be nothing.)

When he taught me about using a firearm against an animal for self-defense, he told me shooting the gun in the air would ward off most animal attacks. He was a hunter, but he also respected animal life.

Whether or not people may agree with these choices and advice, I think they demonstrate a different attitude than you're suggesting.

I am not saying your assessment is always wrong; I am saying it can be denied for many people.

[jmg257]

76. At least you should be. nt

[AtheistCrusader]

79. Not generally true.

Lots of people don't discover whether they are able to shoot someone, until the flag flies.

So yes, it can be denied, and as usual, you are wrong.

[Remmah2]

83. Every time something like this is posted.

The NRA justifies their existence.

[PavePusher]

88. jpak: fifth column, or useful idiot?

:shrug:

Only The Shadow knows....

[oneshooter]

91. I would never refer to him/her/it as"usefull". n/t

[ManiacJoe]

90. jpak's problem is he thinks "willing" means "eager".

[We_Have_A_Problem]

97. Nobody tries to deny it.

What's your point?

Yes, if you're going to carry a firearm, you must be prepared to use it if need be. If you cannot handle that responsibility, you have no business carrying one.

I fail to see the point of this thread beyond feeding your own anti-gun mental masturbation.

[Atypical Liberal]

99. Why would anyone want to deny it?

It is absolutely true that if you carry or own a firearm for self-defense, you must be willing and able to actually shoot someone with it, otherwise it is a waste of time to own or carry one.

The insinuation is that it is wrong to shoot someone in self-defense, or in defense of others, or in defense of property.

It isn't, and in most places this is codified in law.

[rl6214]

102. And your point is? Oh wait, you rarely if ever have one.

[Scout]

104. LOL and you can always be counted on to kick his "pointless" threads n/t