In the Spirit: Churches debate posting gun signs (WI)

[jpak]

http://host.madison.com/wsj/lifestyles/faith-and-values/religion/in-the-spirit-churches-debate-posting-gun-signs/article_ad4c4da0-1d0e-11e1-abc2-0019bb2963f4.html

The state's new concealed carry law is causing churches to discuss whether to post signs banning concealed weapons, and at least some parishioners are finding the discussion pretty tricky.

At Madison Christian Community on the city's Far West Side, the issue isn't so much whether concealed weapons are desirable in a sanctuary — no one seems to be making that argument — but whether signs should be posted that explicitly ban concealed weapons, and, if so, what they should say or look like.

<snip>

The Rev. Jeff Wild, Advent's pastor, was given permission by the leadership team that oversees the two congregations to post signs prohibiting anyone from bringing firearms into the building. He came up with the idea of using part of 1 John 4:18: "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear."

Wild's proposed sign says, "Love casts out fear, no guns here." He gave the slogan to the Rev. John Mix, a church member and jail chaplain who's an artist on the side.

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[saras]

1. If you even have to think about it, the church has failed its primary purpose

Almost certainly not its own fault, but it doesn't matter functionally.

[spin]

2. Jesus did not oppose the carry of weapon for self defense ...

In those times, swords were the equivalent of handguns. In reality a sword can be a far more deadly weapon than a handgun.

Jesus actually instructed his followers to carry weapons.

Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," they answered. He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied. (Luke 22:35-38, NIV)

And one of the deciples of Jesus used a sword to cut off the ear of a high priest's servant during Jesus' arrest.

Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant, cutting off his right ear. (The servant's name was Malchus.) John 18:10 (NIV)

Sword of Saint Peter

The Sword of Saint Peter (Polish: Miecz świętego Piotra) is allegedly the sword with which the Apostle Peter cut off the ear of the high priest's servant at the time of Jesus' arrest in Gethsemane.

The sword is wide-tipped, similar in shape to a dussack or machete. It currently resides in the Poznań Archdiocesan Museum.

An exact copy of the sword, made by Bogdan Puchalski, is displayed on the wall of the Poznań Archcathedral Basilica.


Sword in Archdiocesan Museum


The copy of St. Peter's Sword displayed in Poznań Archcathedral

***snip***

Description

The blade was made from a single piece of iron with an added small cross-guard
Total length: 70.2-centimetre (27.6 in), it was probably 1-centimetre (0.4 in) or 2-centimetre (0.8 in) longer, but the tip of the sword was destroyed by corrosion
Maximal width, at the tip: 9.4-centimetre (3.7 in)
There is a hole 10.3-centimetre (4.1 in) from the end of the hilt, which is 0.4-centimetre (0.2 in) in diameter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_of_Saint_Peter

[jpak]

5. Yeah - the Bible justifies all manner of wickedness and depravity

yup

[spin]

6. The Old Testament does ...

The New Testament not so much.

Neither opposes the use of force for legitimate self defense.

[Union Scribe]

7. Lol, and you act like you give a shit about church people eh?

[PavePusher]

13. Self-defense is "all manner of wickedness and depravity"?

Fucking seriously?

I think I see what your problem is...

[AtheistCrusader]

3. A church is private property.

They are free to do so. No complaints here.

[PavePusher]

4. Churches... never have any need for defense... amIrite?

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&rlz=1R2ADRA_enUS432&source=hp&q=church+attack&rlz=1R2ADRA_enUS432&pbx=1&oq=church+attack&aq=f&aqi=g4&aql=1&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=728797l731312l2l731703l13l8l0l2l2l0l437l2218l2-5.1.1l8l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=263dd057b5d0d747&biw=1170&bih=501


253,000,000 results.

Huh.

:shrug:

[ileus]

8. Carried mine to Church then to a 2.5hr play...it didn't shoot anyone.

post those signs....they work everytime....or so I've heard.

[GreenStormCloud]

9. The church I attend and concealed carry.

The topic came up today at church. It rarely does but it did today. I commented that there were likely several people in present attendance who had CHLs and were armed. The man I was talking to pulled his coat back to let me see his .40 caliber. I made my Kel-Tec P3AT print so he could see it. There is an ex-cop who teaches a CHL course who attends so he is likely armed at all times.

[Remmah2]

10. Who's going to break the news to the atheist? nt

nt

[gejohnston]

12. the Druid? nt

[gejohnston]

11. all are welcome to carry guns, machetes, crossbows etc,

in my oak grove
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual_of_oak_and_mistletoe

[Tejas]

14. CHURCHES ARE SAFE. (80yr old priest beat half to death)

Daniel Mallette, Chicago Priest, Beaten And Robbed Inside Church

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/06/daniel-mallette-chicago-p_n_1131476.html

The intruders proceeded to beat and rob the Rev. Mallette, 80, when he apparently did not move fast enough to their liking.

Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart, a close friend of Mallette's and long-time parishioner at the church, described the incident as "a very vicious attack. ... It just reinforces to you that we have evil in our society," according to the Chicago Tribune.