Newsmaker: Bryan Miller / Gun opponent has a personal stake in his mission

[CO Liberal]

Note that the article says NOTHING about gun confiscation - Wayne

Newsmaker: Bryan Miller / Gun opponent has a personal stake in his mission

A thug named Bennie Lee Lawson and a 30-shot semiautomatic changed everything for Bryan Miller.

On Nov. 22, 1994, Lawson walked into police headquarters in Washington, D.C., and opened fire with that gun, killing Police Sgt. Henry J. Daly, FBI Agent Martha Dixon of Mt. Lebanon and her partner, Michael J. Miller.

Michael Miller was Bryan's younger brother.

Since that day, he's been on a crusade against gun violence.

A few months after Michael's death, he left his 20-year career in international sales and went to work as a volunteer for a nonprofit anti-gun group called CeaseFire in New Jersey, where he lives. He eventually became head of the organization.

Now he's the director of CeaseFire PA, a 15-month-old coalition of groups based in Philadelphia with about 4,500 members who say they want to "loosen the grip" of the gun lobby on American politics.

Last week Miller was in Pittsburgh to denounce federal legislation backed by U.S. Sen. Arlen Specter that would protect the gun industry from liability in lawsuits.

It was just the latest of his many projects, which include championing a ban on assault weapons, pushing for stricter laws against straw purchasers and pressuring Pennsylvania to enact a law prohibiting people from buying more than one handgun in 30 days.

<more>

http://www.post-gazette.com/localnews/20030818newsmaker0818p4.asp

[Man_in_the_Moon]

1. I guess that depends

Does 'ban' equal confiscation?

[CO Liberal]

2. I Believe a "Ban" Refers to Future Sales

There was no confiscation effort associated with the present assauly weapons ban, was there?

[Man_in_the_Moon]

3. Technically

There is a confiscation part to the AWB, but there has been no 'effort', or really no 'enforcement' either. I cant think of anyone ever charged with 'AWB' violatons as a stand alone offense, I have heard of it being used a few times as a 'tack on' charge though. I would say that a 'ban' without 'confiscation' is a toothless useless thing. Future sales have nothing to do with a ban, unless there is a 'grandfather' clause in the law, such as there was with the AWB, but all the 'grandfathering' does is give the person an affirmative defense against the charges (if any are brought).

Technically with the existing AWB the federal government could go around and arrest (and charge) anyone possessing a firearm that meets the definition of an 'Assault Weapon' (as defined by the AWB of '94) for possession of an 'Assault Weapon' and make every person PROVE in court that their weapon is/was 'legal' (ie a 'pre-ban').

[-..__...]

4. Yes...

Note that the article says NOTHING about gun confiscation

what they say and what they 'think' are two entirely different things. None of these anti-gun groups
are going to come right out and say "we think all guns should banned and confiscated". The fallout
would be disastrous. I have little doubt that if any of these anti-gun groups had their way, they would
without hesitation call for total confiscation (except for LEA's and the military). It would be naive not
to think that these people have some greater plan in mind.

[CO Liberal]

5. Your Paranoia Is Showing

:-)

[-..__...]

7. Name the quote.

"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an out right ban,
picking up every one of them... "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, "I would have done it.
I could not do that. The votes weren't here."

"Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of all Americans to feel safe."


"I honestly think - and I am not an expert on the amendments - I think the only people in this nation who should be allowed to own guns are police officers. I don't care if you want to hunt, I don't care if you think it's your right. I say 'sorry'. It is 1999, we have had enough as a nation. You are not allowed to own a gun and if you do own a gun, I think you should go to prison."

[CO Liberal]

8. We've Been Through This Before

Long before you joined DU, and it will continue long after you leave.

Just because ONE pro-control person advocates confiscation doesn't mean ALL pro-control people advocate it. That wouls be like saying that since one Republican is a child molester, then ALL Republicans are child molesters.

[-..__...]

9. And just because one RKBA advocate

has made racist statements doesn't mean all NRA and/or gun owners are racist.

[CO Liberal]

12. But When They Make a Racist One of Their Leaders......

...it makes you wonder.

[MrBenchley]

15. And when they make a number of racists

and criminals their leaders the message is clear...

[-..__...]

18. Dianne Feinstein and Rosie O'Donnell

Are both either spokespersons or stump for the Brady Center and/or MMM. If neither organization supports the banning and confiscation of all firearms, then why haven't those organizations distanced themselves or disavowed themselves
from Feinstein and O'Donnell? Show me one press release where either organization has said they disagree with
those comments I posted earlier or that they don't reflect their agenda.

With regards to Nugent, if the NRA ousted him (I'm not sure but I think he'd have to be voted out), would it be
right to do so based on comments he's made on his own behalf and not speaking as an NRA board member?

Wouldn't that be censorship? Wouldn't it be hypocritical of them to do so since the NRA is supporter of the BOR?

FTR, I don't agree with Ted Nugents comments or his alpha-male attitude. He's not a very good public speaker or very articulate. I have no control over him so...

However, I strongly support his right to say what he wants. I would do the same for anyone here on this forum or elsewhere whether I find their comments offensive or not. Would you do the same?

[CO Liberal]

19. I Would Protect Ted Nugent's Right......

....to eat shit, bark at the moon, and die.

[-..__...]

20. Nice response

....to eat shit, bark at the moon, and die.

Thought provoking, informative, intelligent, witty, well reasoned and level headed.

What other parts of the Constitution do you interpret to suit your opinions?

[CO Liberal]

21. This Isn't ABout the Constitution

It's about people I have absolutely no use for. Such as Ted Nugent.

[-..__...]

26. Fine

But you haven't answered the question. Let me ask it again.

Do you support a persons right to free speech, even though you disagree with what the person has to say? Even though that speech could be considered racist, hateful, offensive, or otherwise distastful.

(I'm not talking about slander, libel, perjury or anything like that).

[CO Liberal]

30. They Have the Right to Say Whatever They Want

But when they represent an organization, it is assumed they speak for that organization. So when Ted Nugent makes an asshole of himself, it reflect on the whole NRA.

[-..__...]

38. That isn't what I asked.

I asked if you would support that right?

Sigh....Never, mind.

Anyhow, this whole line of questioning came about because your original post pointed out that there was no mention made of confiscation.

Correct?

I mentioned that I have nothing but distrust for the anti-gun agenda and that if it were entirely up to them, that they would ban all firearms. The only reason they haven't done that is because they know how unrealistic it is (but, they can always dream).

You responded by posting "Your Paranoia is showing".

Correct?

I posted a few choice quotes from Diane Feinstein and Rosie O'Donnell
that prove my "paranoia" is not unfounded.

Your assertion is that I (we) shouldn't go by the statements of one or two people (the assumption being that neither the Brady people or MMM supports a total ban and confiscation).

Feinstein and O'Donnell are members and/spokespersons for the MMM/Brady. Do their opinions reflect the policies and goals of Brady/MMM or not? Either they do or they don't. Since neither organization has publicly refuted Feinstein or O'Donnell then they must support their opinion.

If Nugent represents the NRA, then conversely Feinstein and O'Donnell represent the anti-gun organizations... the ones whom you claim aren't looking to ban or confiscate all firearms. As you say; when they represent that organization it is assumed they speak for that organization.

At least in Nugents case, his statements have no involvement or association with the NRA whatsoever. Nugents comments have just
as much significance with the NRA and gun owners as they do with ASCAP and other guitar players... which is to say none.

[CO Liberal]

39. Bullshit

Ted Nugent is an OFFICER of the NRA - he's on their board of directors. He in effect IS the NRA.

And IMHO, he personifies the concept of "Nuts Ruining America".

[MrBenchley]

22. Say what?

"Dianne Feinstein and Rosie O'Donnell"
Why would anyone sane need to distance themselves from either of those two?

"With regards to Nugent, if the NRA ousted him (I'm not sure but I think he'd have to be voted out), would it be right to do so based on comments he's made on his own behalf and not speaking as an NRA board member?"
Hello? Nutso has been on the board since at least 2001....when isn't he an NRA board member in that time?

[Township75]

23. Rosie is pretty good at putting distance between herself and others..

she can't help it with the size of her waist.

I guess she is really concerned about gun violence, but not high fat diets, cholesterol, high blood pressure, ect...we will see which one gets her first.

[CO Liberal]

24. Nice One, Township.......

Seems you can't find anything clever to say about her position, so you attach her size. I know that many weight issues are linked to emotions. Do you think that perhaps losing her mother to cancer when she was only ten years old may have had an effect on her?????

[Township75]

29. I figured you would bite...

It is interesting to see how you would write something like that after all the posts I have read from you attacking NRA members. I recall one stating that they couldn't read, and I could go back into the archives to show you, but why bother.

You knew as you wrote that you have done the same thing in the past. But you have selective outrage, and it depends on the victum's gun position. So save some bandwidth because I consider being critical of what I did is complete horseshit coming from you.

Hey, did you ever post something to MrBenchley when he makes comments like I did? Don't bother, I know the answer to that too.

Couple of other things:
"Seems you can't find anything clever to say about her position, so you attach her size."
That is incorrect. I have been attacking her anti gun position ever since I have been on DU. Only now did I start to attack her size.

I know that many weight issues are linked to emotions. Do you think that perhaps losing her mother to cancer when she was only ten years old may have had an effect on her?????
I know weight issues can be linked to genetics, not exercising, or being a complete pig among other things. I don't know what is up with her, but just because she lost her Mom when she was 10 isn't going to convince me of anything. I know a few people who lost parents while they were young, and others who went through emotionally damaging times too, and they don't have a weight problem.

[CO Liberal]

32. Different People Deal With Trauma In Different Ways

Some become depressed.

Some become withdrawn.

Some become sexually promiscuous.

Some become alcoholics.

Some overeat.

Some turn to drugs.

And (yes) some arm themselves to the teeth with every gun they can get their hands on.

[Man_in_the_Moon]

34. Hell, You dont need Trauma

to do those things.

Some people do them without ever having had a trauma.

[Cthulu_2004]

35. Correct me if I'm wrong here...

but hasn't Rosie done a complete flip-flop on the gun issue since 9/11?

[CO Liberal]

It Wouldn't Matter If She Did

She's been branded "Enemy For Life" by many gun nuts. Just like the way some vets still call Jane Fonda "Hanoi Jane".

It's just more right-wing hypocrisy. Once a liberal always a liberal. But when someone like David Horowitz changes sides, he's heralded as a hero.

[MrBenchley]

27. I guess your claim was hooey

after all...

"we will see which one gets her first."
After all, you can't discount the number of RKBA nuts who sent her and her kids death threats.....

[Township75]

31. She does have at least one armed guard for her kid

and the armed guard was able to carry concealed in NY and into the school where one of her kids was educated. You know, the typical stuff leading anti gun activists like Rosie fight to deny average citizens.

[CO Liberal]

33. Which Only Became Necessary .....

....because some gun nuts made threats.

[Township75]

37. And if some gun nut makes a threat to any other citizen's child

Rosie will be there fighting against that parent doing anything to protect that child.

[-..__...]

28. Nugent.... again!

"Dianne Feinstein and Rosie O'Donnell"
Why would anyone sane need to distance themselves from either of those two?

See my previous post.


Hello? Nutso has been on the board since at least 2001....when isn't he an NRA board member in that time?

I couldn't tell you, but then I'm not the one obsessed with him.

[RoeBear]

6. 4,500 members versus...

...4.5 million NRA members.

[MrBenchley]

10. Which we know because the NRA wouldn't lie, would they?

Surrrrrrrre.....

Actual fact: the circulation of NRA magazines is audited and clearly on the decline...and the NRA's annual convention draws the same flat 40,000 nutcases that it did a decade ago (and more than half of those are EMPLOYED by the gun industry).

[-..__...]

11. Please continue with the grasping...

It brightens up and brings a laugh to my otherwise dreary day.

I like your 'scientific' and valid approach to spinning the numbers.

Perhaps you're unaware of the membership options? Magazine.... no magazine.

Standard membership.... associate membership.

$35.00... $10.00

[CO Liberal]

13. So In Other Words......

...any NRA member who doesn't get the magazine is substandard??

:-)

[-..__...]

16. No...

just cheap. Besides, the money saved means more money for ammo. :)

[Cthulu_2004]

36. Not quite...

I'm entitled to get the NRA magazine. I don't. It has nothing to do with how much I paid for my membership, it's just junk-mail to me, so I cancelled it.

[MrBenchley]

14. I find it a huge laugh

that anybody is silly enough to believe the NRA...

[Man_in_the_Moon]

17. Hell

I find it an even bigger laugh that anyone is silly or stupid enough to believe either the NRA or the Brady's without question.

[Township75]

25. Maybe this group can help unseat Specter in 2k4...

with all of those members.
Just think about this. This guy formed a coalition of groups that total 4500 members. Keep in mind that means all of the anti gun groups in the coalition have a mere 4500 members.

Shows how many people actually support anti gun laws. Despite some posters desire to post a "study" from or supported by an anti gun group concluding people want more gun control, the #'s speak louder than the anti gunners' lies.

If anyone supported the loser filled anti gun agenda, all of these groups would be combining to form a coalition with more than 4500 members.