Ammo question: cheap 30-06 / non steel core?

[John BigBootay]

Yesterday I went to an outdoor firing range near my house in the L.A. hills. I only collect and shoot classic / collectible firearms such as the M1 Garand and the 1903, both 30-06.

This was the first time I'd been to this range, and only about the third time I'd fired these rifles-- I'm not a big shooter-- I'm more just an appreciator of these old weapons.

At any rate, I'd cracked off one clip from my Garand when one of the range officers came by to inspect my ammo. I asked what he was looking for and he said "steel ammo." It's apparently banned from this range because of the threat of sparking on a rock and starting a brush fire-- a sensible precaution.

He found that my 30-06 ammo did in fact contain a steel core, with a copper FMJ-- he held it up to a magnet to test it. Then he told me to pick up my gear and leave the range as this was a zero-tolerance policy.

I complied, but told him that I had NO IDEA that my ammo had a steel core, and that no one had told me how to inspect my ammo to insure that it was safe to shoot, even though I declared to the range cashiers that I was a new shooter and a novice.

I guess I feel a bit of sour grapes here and I'm venting a bit. I see the need for this safety precaution-- but I feel that the range people could have been more interested in coaxing safety from a new shooter rather than just kicking one out for unwittingly breaking the rules. Oh well.

I obtained my steel-core 30-06 ammo from a web / maill order place called Cheaper Than Dirt and got a really good price on this ammo: about $7 per box of 20.

My question is: Where can I get good, reasonably priced ammo and be sure it contains no steel so I can go back to this place and shoot without getting thrown out again? Does anyone have a favorite non-steel brand of 30-06 ammo (just for plinking)?

Thanks in advance!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

1. You'd do better to post this in the lounge

You'll get a quicker answer there... buckaroo!

[RoeBear]

2. You should sell your guns...

...and become a civilized human being.

[Wickerman]

5. Finally, a reasoned response in the Gungeon!

oh, whoops, nevermind.

:P

[TX-RAT]

3. What color was the tip of the bullet.

Many had color codes to determine armor piercing, tracer. standard military ball.

[John BigBootay]

4. It was plain copper-- no colored tip

But my ammo was made from US military parts-- it says "milspec" on the box. It's just a very plain cardboard box-- not a "name brand" product. Apparently these rounds were made from recovered components-- hence the cheaper price. I guess that military ammo is steel cored to provide better penetration-- I'm just starting to figure this stuff out...

[TX-RAT]

8. disregard---- post 7 answers my next questions

[slackmaster]

10. The bullets may have originally been black-tipped

Because military surplus ammo cannot be sold to civilians it's broken down into components and reloaded. If the bullets are solvent-washed or tumbled the black paint gets removed.

[Hrumph]

13. Perhaps you're right that...

U.S. surplus ammo can't be sold to civilians but I see a BUNCH of stuff on the market that was manufactured in Israel, Argentena... Lots of places around the world.

[Hrumph]

6. Most likely not steel

John,

The ammo you were shooting most likely DID NOT have a steel core. You said you got it from Cheaperthandirt.com. I'm familiar with them and several other discount warehouse operations. Please tell me what brand of ammo it was. Was it Wolf? There are two or three Russian manufacturers that often sell for cheap through these discount outfits. They use STEEL CASES because brass they can do it cheaper than brass. The bullets are the same ol copper cup/lead core that everyone else uses. The steel cases are usually covered with a greenish laquer coating to keep them from rusting - That's another sure sign.

Anyway, I don't recommend using ANY Russian ammo in anything but a russian gun. The steel cases are very hard on extractors and firearms manufactured by the rest of the world are not designed to take the abuse. Also - If you keep firing for extended periods the barrel and chamber of your weapon will get very, very hot. Hot enough, in fact, to cook the laquer coating on the cases. This laquer coating leaves a residue in the chamber and can cause failures to feed in most weapons. Russian weapons, by contrast, are designed to handle the steel cases. Their extractors are extra beefy and the chambers are somewhat more "generous" than others - Not great for accuracy, but adds to dependability. It's not uncommon for someone to bring a bunch of this 'bargain basement' ammo to one of our urban rifle or carbine classes and due to the heavy use we put the weapons through they almost always break an extractor on those steel cases.

Due to the shorter barrel lenghth of the CAR-15 and M-4, the 5.56mm NATO round developed insufficient velocity for reliable penetration. To counteract this, the U.S. Military introduced the 62gr. SS-109 round with a steel core. Again, this was a .223 cal. round. Your M-1 Garand is, obviously, a .308 cal. rifle and as far as I know, there are no steel core rounds in .308 - There's simply no reason for them. And if there are it'll be some premium hunting ammo and you certainly aren't going to be getting them for real cheap from a discount house. (Note, the Winchester Failsafe hunting bullet is a premium, partitioned bullet with a steel cup in the aft section. This is not the same as steel core.)

Unfortunately, it sounds like the range officer in question is a dumb-ass. I don't see an ejected case sparking against a rock and starting a fire. Talk to the manager and get some clarification.

[John BigBootay]

7. Here's what I know about these rounds...

Hrumph--

I can't tell you what brand this ammo is. The box is marked (from memory, I'm at work right now not looking at it)

30-06 Ball FMJ
Made from recovered US milspec parts
boxer primed / non-corrosive

The box is just plain brown cardboard with black writing. Simple-simple-simple.

I believe the text on the website said it was made in the US from all US parts. I'm almost 100% certain of this.

The bullet appears to be a normal copper jacketed round.

The casing is definitely brass, not steel.

I tested the bullets myself with a magnet when I got home and found that the bullet itself was magnetic-- not the brass casing-- as if the core of this round did in fact have a steel (or other ferrous metal) core.

Thanks for your support of me on this-- but I really do believe that the range officer was right about my ammo-- I'm just a little peeved that they didn't give me any info or warning to really avoid this.

[slackmaster]

9. Sounds like the Angeles Shooting Range

I was bitten by the same restriction first time I went there.

I really do believe that the range officer was right about my ammo

The magnet is a definitive test for the presence of steel, either as a penetrator core or jacket. It makes no difference, either poses a much greater fire hazard than standard copper-jacketed lead bullets.

[Hrumph]

11. I guess it's possible...

that it could be old surplus AP (armor piercing) stuff. Check out http://cartridgecollectors.org/30-06intro/ for a fairly comprehensive list of surplus 30-06 ammo types.

When I first read your message, I was thinking of recently manufactured stuff. My boss reminded me that there's still a lot of really old surplus stuff floating around.

If they are old AP bullets, that SHOULD be labeled or otherwise denoted as such either by labels on the box or by a colored bullet tip. BUT, if the cartridges are actually remanufactured then all bets are off. The bullets themselves may have been tumbled in which the paint on the tip will be polished off.

At any rate, check out http://www.ammoman.com/ for discount prices on ammo. And the Ammoman will actually tell you what you're buying.

Best of luck.

[John BigBootay]

16. I'll try Ammoman and ask specifically for non-steel.

Thanks

[John BigBootay]

14. You guessed it...

It's a nice range, fairly close to home and I intend to go back. Can't shake that lousy feeling after being ejected after firing one clip though...

[slackmaster]

17. The restriction is there for a very good reason

About a year ago a pretty large brush fire was set off by someone firing steel-cored ammo at one of the distant orange plate targets.

Southern California is fire country.

[-..__...]

19. Some ranges prohibit steel core ammo...

because it tears up the backstops.

[slackmaster]

20. ASR is all outdoors

Backdrops are dirt hillsides with sage scrub and grass in the distance. Right now there's not much left to burn.

[Hrumph]

12. Unfortunately,

I've observed that it's not uncommon for public shooting ranges to be cholked with rules that aren't written anywhere. And, oddly, the range officers are often less than pleasant.

[John BigBootay]

15. It was written in the waiver form and general rules...

pamphlet that you sign before shooting.

I did read the rules and knew that steel bullets were verboten-- but honestly, I didn't think my ammo was steel, nor did I know how to test it, nor did I know that I'd be going home if I was found to be shooting it.

Live and learn. It's their range-- their rules.

[Hrumph]

18. <shrug>

Yeah, they're entitled to run it any way they see fit.

I've ordered from Eric several times and always been happy. I don't remember that he's sold remanufactured ammo but I couldn't swear to it. If it's AP ammo, I believe they'd list it as such.