GUNS IN THE NEWS - June 22, 2004

[CO Liberal]

Please try to adhere to the following voluntary guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:

1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current, stories should have been originally posted on the Internet within the previous 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board. On Mondays (since many people do not log in to DU over the weekend), stories can be posted from Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.

2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories, editorials, and press releases are welcome in this thread, as long as they're current. Please do not post links to items from a few years back that support your position.

3 - Bear in mind that any links to extremely right-wing sites (such as Newsmax, CNS, or the Washington Times) or intentionally pro-gun or pro-control sites (such as the NRA or the Brady Campaign) are not considered reliable sources by many DU-ers. If at all possible, try to find a link for your story from a more mainstream source, such as a general-circulation newspaper or magazine site. If you choose to use a slanted site, be prepared for any negative feedback you may receive.

4 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.

5 - If it's not clear from the title where the story occurred, add the city, state, or country in parentheses after the title.

6 - The person adding a news story to the "GITN" thread is allowed (and encouraged) to comment on that story, indicating their position on the topic being discussed. These comments can appear either at the beginning or end of the post; if possible, place comments in a different typeface so readers can separate the comments from the story. Others who wish to comment on a posted story can do so by replying to that story; this allows other readers to follow the comments by scrolling through the subthread.

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8 - If you object to these guidelines (or the basic concept of the "Guns In The News" thread), do everyone else a favor and go to another thread.

[CO Liberal]

1. Myrtle Beach man arrested in shooting (SC)

Under my concept of "reasonable gun control", this guy would have not had access to a gun based on his past, and there would be one less shooting victim. - Wayne

* * * * *

Myrtle Beach man arrested in shooting

The Associated Press

MYRTLE BEACH, S.C. -- A Myrtle Beach man has been arrested for the fatal shooting of a Loris man last weekend.

William Danyell Finkley, 21, was arrested shortly after midnight Monday morning and charged with the Saturday morning shooting of Tyrone Gore, 30.

Finkley had been arrested for murder in the death of his girlfriend, Vanessa Nelson, 18, in March 2002. Finkley was out on $50,000 bond in Nelson's death when Gore was killed, police said.

<more>

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040622/APN/406220654

[JayS]

11. Is this a current story? What happened with the 2002 arrest? n/t

n/t

[CO Liberal]

13. Yes, This is a Current Story

He shot someone last weekend.

[JayS]

18. What about the 2002 arrest though. Surely that has gone to...

...trial by now!

[CO Liberal]

2. Warrant issued in weekend shooting (MS)

More mayhem, spread by the availability of guns. - Wayne

* * * * *

Warrant issued in weekend shooting

The Associated Press

GREENVILLE — Police here are investigating a weekend shooting that resulted in the death of 36-year-old Derrick Wright.

Police Maj. Danny Suber said there had been no arrests in the case but that a warrant has been issued for an arrest.

He did not release the suspect's name.

Suber said officers were dispatched to Clay Street during the afternoon Saturday to investigate reports of shots being fired.

He said when the officers arrived at the scene they were told that Wright had been shot and had been taken to The Kings Daughters Hospital.

He said Wright was later transferred to Delta Regional Medical Center, where he died as a result of his wounds.

<more>

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040622/NEWS01/406220363/1002

[CO Liberal]

3. Man Fatally Shot After Collision On Md. Nightclub's Dance Floor

What a deal - go out dancing, come home in a box. And the "law-abiding gun owner" had such a good justification in offing the other person - getting bumped into on the dance floor and all.... - Wayne

* * * * *

Man Fatally Shot After Collision On Md. Nightclub's Dance Floor

By Jamie Stockwell
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, June 22, 2004; Page B04

A Northwest Washington man was fatally shot on the dance floor of a Prince George's County nightclub early Sunday after bumping into another patron, authorities said.

David Moncrieffe, 24, died at Prince George's Hospital Center after the 3 a.m. shooting in the Crossroads Entertainment Complex in the 4100 block of Baltimore Avenue in Bladensburg, said Cpl. Diane Richardson, a county police spokeswoman.

She said the shooting was "apparently unprovoked" and occurred after Moncrieffe apologized to the man he had bumped into. Richardson said no suspects have been identified and that the shooter was an African American man in his twenties, about 5-foot-9, with short hair, who wore a Philadelphia 76ers basketball jersey with the number "5" on it.

Security at the club is known among patrons as "tight," said regular customer Erica Harvey, 22, a friend of Moncrieffe's. She said each person is "searched from head to toe" before being allowed inside. Kiyo Oden, general counsel for Crossroads, said the club's management is "cooperating fully with police to see how happened and to ensure it doesn't happen again."

<more>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59163-2004Jun21.html

[Romulus]

8. ahem

What a deal - go out dancing, come home in a box. And the "law-abiding gun owner" had such a good justification in offing the other person - getting bumped into on the dance floor and all.... - Wayne

Maryland has had a felony-level law against merely possessing an unloaded handgun in public, much less carrying a loaded one around, since 1973.

All handgun sales are registered with the MD State Police, which conducts a five-business-day background check and also registers the owner in a database.

Tell me again how this guy was "law abiding" by carrying a loaded handgun into a nightclub without a may-issue MD CCW permit? :shrug:

[CO Liberal]

14. You Pro-Gunners Keep Telling Us....

...that we don't have to worry about law-abinding gun owners. I say that we need to be concerned about each and every gun out there.

[JayS]

12. It is already against the law to carry a weapon where alcohol...

...is served. This murder sounds planned also.

[CO Liberal]

4. Gun program is working, officials say (NE)

I'd like to see a pro-gunner argue AGAINST this program... - Wayne

* * * * *

Gun program is working, officials say

BY TIM ELFRINK
WORLD-HERALD STAFF WRITER

Statistics released Monday show that a federally funded program to reduce gun violence in Omaha is working, officials said, though similar figures also show an increase in gang violence last year.

Felony gun assaults have dropped by 38 percent since March 2003, while federal prosecution for gun crime increased by 70 percent, officials said at a press conference Monday.

The program, Project Safe Neighborhoods, in February 2003 began distributing federal funding to create community initiatives, fund police operations and raise awareness of the consequences of gun crime.

"We're pleased with the progress, though obviously there's still work to be done," Omaha Police Chief Thomas Warren said. Mayor Mike Fahey and U.S. Attorney Mike Heavican also attended the press conference.

<more>

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_np=0&u_pg=1636&u_sid=1129203

[enfield collector]

6. I agree, isn't this the same program that is promoted by the NRA?

[CO Liberal]

7. I Don't Think So

From the Project Safe Neighborhoods web site (http://www.psn.gov/):

Project Safe Neighborhoods is a Partnership of:

Department of Justice
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives
National Crime Prevention Council
International Association of Chiefs of Police
National Districe Attorneys Association
Michigan State University
Your Local Community

I believe you're thinking about "Project Exile", which is endorsed by the NRA and soundly condemned by many of the more rabid pro-gunners. For example, look at what I found be searching Goole for <"Project Exile" + NRA>:

"NRA'S PROJECT (EXILE) GUN GULAG"

NRA's Project Exile at first glance, appears to be "Just what the Doctor Ordered" for this Nation. After all, the way the NRA sells this to the public, and to their membership is, that criminals that use guns will do "hard time" in prison. And if that was all we would get out of their pet project, then indeed Gun Owners Alliance would embrace Project Exile with open arms.

HOWEVER, ALL GUN LAWS, GOOD OR BAD, WILL BE ENFORCED TO THE HILT, ESPECIALLY NOW SINCE THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION HAS EMBRACED PROJECT EXILE, AS SHOWN BY THE NRA ALERT AND NEWS ARTICLE BELOW.

Just the fact that the Clinton Administration is now feeling "warm and fuzzy" over Project Exile should raise the red flags quite high! Since when did our fearless President ever want to do something that promoted the 2nd Amendment? Has this ever happened since he has been President? Oh, but just wait and see what Mr. Klintoon will enforce!

<more>

http://www.gunownersalliance.com/gun_gulag-1.htm

[JayS]

10. Project Safe Neighborhoods grew out of Project Exile. It is...

...gun control at its finest. I am sorry that it took a change of administration to get it started though. From what I have seen so far, Kerry will not support it. I am basing this mainly on his vote to not increase penalties (mandatory minimums) on crimes committed with a gun. I have no idea why he feels this way and posts to his website go unanswered.

[JayS]

29. Mention NRA and everybody cruises, even if the NRA's new...

...brand of gun control is working...

[JayS]

30. Proved myself right...

[JayS]

31. Cough. stupid summer cold

[JayS]

28. It would be interesting to see...

...how posting the core of PSN up in General Discussion would fare as far as support for this brand of gun control goes. There are plenty of good success stories out there to go along with it. Of course the Republican brand will have to be left off for unbiased feedback. Most certainly the NRA brand will have to be left off because here, as in real life, having the NRA label attached will mean an outright dislike. See the ill-fated McCarthy-Dingell "gun show loophole" bill for an example of this.

What do y'all think?

[CO Liberal]

5. Oceanside man gets three-year sentence for giving teen gun (CA

I can only think of one word to describe Edward Inzunza - "asshole". - Wayne

* * * * *

Oceanside man gets three-year sentence for giving teen gun

VISTA – A young Oceanside man who loaded a gun and gave it to a teen who ended up killing himself accidentally was sentenced Monday to three years in prison.

On Feb. 6, several teens were visiting the home of Edward Inzunza, 21, in the 200 block of Rancho del Oro when he showed them an unloaded handgun.

Sometime later, for reasons unexplained, Inzunza put two bullets into the chamber, prosecutor James Koerber said.

High school junior Brady Waite, 17, would later pick up the gun, put it to his head and pull the trigger.

<more>

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20040621-1736-shootsentence.html

[slackmaster]

9. I've never heard of a gun that could hold two rounds in the chamber

Just an obligatory technical nit.

[Retired AF Dem]

15. I can only think of two words to describe Brady Waite

Former Idiot.

[CO Liberal]

16. Brady Waite Was The Victim

The only idiot here is the asshole who loaded a gun and handed it to him.

[Retired AF Dem]

17. A self inflicted victim

Learn something new every day.

[CO Liberal]

20. Why Are You Blaming The Victim????

The blame lies squarely with the asshole who provided him a loaded gun.

[Retired AF Dem]

22. I agree he was an asshole

but it was the idiot that put the pistol to his head and pulled the trigger.

[slackmaster]

23. It's not his fault he wasn't properly trained in gun safety

And it's not his fault an irresponsible person handed him a loaded pistol without warning him.

[Retired AF Dem]

24. So a 17 yr old does not know what dangers a gun can pose?

and to think we let them drive cars on public highways.

[CO Liberal]

25. Is There No Limit To How Low You Will Stoop.....

...to advance your pro-gun agenda????

:shrug:

[slackmaster]

27. Aw crap, not a cars/guns analogy

I don't know about where you live, but here in California we require kids to pass a written test and a driving test before issuing them a license to drive on public roads and highways.

People who have not been trained in gun safety are naturally naive. I once visited a Nevada pistol instructor in his home. He had never met me before, and handed me an orange plastic 1911 mock pistol just to see what I'd do. I passed the test - Proper muzzle control, finger off the trigger, etc. He said MOST people naturally put their finger on the trigger, which is wrong even with a gun-like object that you believe to be a toy.

[iverglas]

26. aha

It's not his fault he wasn't properly trained in gun safety
And it's not his fault an irresponsible person handed him a loaded pistol without warning him.

Even though it's really just a statement of fact, we can agree. ;)

If I may infer from your statement of that fact ... you would never hand someone, particularly a youthful person, a firearm that s/he had previously known to be unloaded, a firearm that belonged to you and that you had been permitting youthful persons to play with (okay, stretch your imagination), without informing the person that it was now loaded - ?

Going back from there, of course you would never have permitted youthful persons, or anyone at all, to play with your firearm, unloaded or not, I'm sure, and would never have loaded a firearm that was being handled in that way, etc. etc.

So in the chain of events, several things had to have happened before said youthful person put a bullet in his head. But I won't stretch our agreement too far here by proposing any other implications from what you said ... just yet.

:P

[RoeBear]

19. Sad story...

...but how do they know this?

"Brady did not intend to harm himself, and did not know that bullets had been loaded, he said."

I just can't imagine pointing a gun at myself at all; and pointing a gun at myself and pulling the trigger is just beyond comprehension.

Still I will agree with your assesment of Insunza as an asshole.

[iverglas]

21. in the interests of saving myself grief

I just can't imagine pointing a gun at myself at all; and pointing a gun at myself and pulling the trigger is just beyond comprehension.

I will not use the time-honoured expression that came immediately to mind. For anyone who can't guess, which would probably amount to the vast majority of posters here who have never heard it spoken or read it written, here:

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&safe=off&q=%22who%27s+a+clever+boy%22&meta=


I just can't imagine getting close enough to the edge of the roof of a tall building to fall off, either ... and still there are laws requiring tall building owners to lock doors that foolish people might walk through onto their roofs and fall off them. And requiring people to fence their backyard swimming pools, and just all sorts of things like that.

Amazingly, there are foolish people and children in the world. Astoundingly, there are laws that require people to do things to prevent foolish people and children from foolishly or childishly hurting themselves.


but how do they know this?
"Brady did not intend to harm himself, and did not know that bullets had been loaded, he said."

How can we know anything? Ah, such epistemological debates as we could have, eh?

Most of us make do with observing, and relying on the accounts of reliable witnesses of what they observed.

If I observed someone joking around over a period of time, or heard a reliable account that someone was joking around, for instance, I'd be fairly confident knowing that the person in question wasn't planning to off himself without so much as a by your leave.