Gun Control or the real world!

[shatoga]

A raw recruit in 1969:
We stood on stage holding a bb-gun (which had the feel of an M-16)
objects the size of a dinner plate were launched across our field of vision.
If we hit them all.
smaller objects followed.
and so on.
Three of each hundred could hit a bb with their bb.

I was not that good.

They called it "quick kill";
Acquire the target and hit it in a second or less.


30+ years later,
I sit on my back porch holding a pellet gun.

squirrel swishes a tail;
I acquire the target.
next movement, I hit the tree-rat with a .17 caliber pellet.

Range varies between pellet rifle and pellet pistol.

Neighbors are amazed that I profess to be a Democrat.

They think all Democrats vomit or crap themselves at the sight of a gun.

Showing both my DNC and NRA cards really causes confusion.

Neighbors thinks Democrats hate Christianity, want to confiscate all guns,
and want America to be a land of welfare queens who drive Cadillacs.

Those few who learn I have a concealed carry permit are really confused.

'Don't Democrats hate honest Americans being able to defend themselves?'
Several have asked me.


These people watch too much evening "news" IMHO
and are brainwashed by the consistent rightwing slant given to every news story.

That
some Democrats actually oppose law abiding citizens being able to defend themselves
just makes their delusions more credible in their weak minds.

We few Democrats who think "gun control" means:
"Any gun under my control will never be used to commit a crime."
are treated as pariahs by those gun grabbers who want Republicans to rule Amerika forever.

During last years' floods I videotaped looters and offered to testify for the prosecution.
I confronted nobody and shot nobody.

A gun is for defensive uses.
No life threatened/
No gun used!
Get the simple logic?

However:

Like the abortion issue/ the gun issue energizes the partisan rightwing base.
We could remove that support from Re-Publicans by just being pro-choice on the gun issue.

Let each and every person act according to the dictates of their own conscience.
Criminals should go to jail and be denied any right to own guns.
Honest law Abiding citizens should get concealed Carry permits.

Cops should actually do their jobs and protect citizens.
Cops will laugh as they read this.

To cops there are 2 classes:
Cops & citizens.
Cops are the good guys...citizens are the bad guys.
Us vs them!

That is how you gun grabbers' "protectors" view you.
Criminals not yet arrested!

[Spoonman]

1. Toast to the Post

EXCELLENT!!
:toast:

[acerbic]

9. Let's see what you're toasting as "excellent":

To cops there are 2 classes:
Cops & citizens.
Cops are the good guys...citizens are the bad guys.
Us vs them!

That is how you gun grabbers' "protectors" view you.
Criminals not yet arrested!

So that's your view too about all police officers. Thanks for demostrating your level of understanding the real world... :eyes:

[shatoga]

11. never carried a badge have you?

otherwise you would know the truth of my comments.

[liberalhistorian]

2. There are a lot more RKBA Democrats than most people

tend to think. I think you're right, most of the news on TV, whether on cable or network, slants their coverage of the issue so as to make it seem like ALL Dems want to take everyone's guns away and they all hate guns.

I felt that way until a few weeks ago, when I was mugged at gunpoint in the parking lot of my workplace. There's nothing like feeling the cold barrel of a gun being jammed in your ribs and then your neck, and knowing that the stranger jamming the gun has total power over your life at that moment, to completely change your perspective. The psycho criminal robbing me had the gun and had all the power while I had NOTHING! Never before had I experienced such an overwhelming feeling of total helplessness and powerlessness against this person who held all the cards and had power over whether I would live or die, at that moment.

It became clear to me that I did, and should, have the right to carry a weapon to defend myself (with the proper training and safety measures, of course!). If the criminals are all carrying guns, which they assuredly are, then I have the right to also arm myself for protection. I will never be a helpless victim again!

[luckyluke]

3. The question is...

...does carrying a gun actually make people live longer?

Statistics of guns being used against their owners, or against other innocent people, or gun-related accidents, or violent crimes resulting from easy access to guns, seem to indicate that widespread gun ownership can be a bad thing. So there are both pros and cons.

I have an open mind on the topic myself. Only cold-headed, intelligent, unbiased research can provide an answer. Of course few people are cold-headed about this issue, so there are no clear answers forthcoming at this time.

-ll

[liberalhistorian]

4. That's certainly true that most people aren't able to be clear-headed

or unbiased as far as this issue is concerned. It's like abortion, it's one of those hot-button, emotional issues that will always be controversial.

[shatoga]

6. & like abortion- we should not let it divide our party

Republicans Rule!
Because Democrats quibble over issues best left to the conscience of each individual..
while Republicans reap the harvest of that dissension.

[shatoga]

5. does carrying a gun actually make people live longer?

"The question is..."
Posted by luckyluke
...does carrying a gun actually make people live longer?


I've been assaulted half a dozen times in my half century.
I've lived longer as a result of being able to shoot back until cops arrived;
or until I gained control, and became able to disarm my attackers, then call cops.

Carrying (and knowing how to use a gun) has made me live longer.
I could have died in 1973, 1976, 1983, 1987, 1998, 2003, without being armed and able to resist.

In each of those incidents;
the attackers chose me out of the crowd
with no prior interaction to set them off.

Several times I suffered the insult of a Grand Jury
charged by an overzealous persecutor, who wanted to climb over my body into public office.

Strict obedience to the law is no guarantee of freedom.

Hire a good attorney!

[liberalhistorian]

7. You know the old saying,

"Better judged by 12 than carried by 6"! After my experience, I fully appreciate that!

[jody]

12. Please provide reputable statistics that "widespread gun ownership can be

a bad thing". You go on to say "there are no clear answers forthcoming at this time", but there are clear answers.

DoJ studies report that about 70% of victims of crimes of violence took self protective measures. Of that number, less 10% believe their efforts caused more personal injury and less than 5% believe their efforts cause more property damage.

See Criminal Victimization in the United States, 2001 Statistical Tables

[shatoga]

13. there you go again!

Jody,
thanks for a rational post.

Problem is so many are programmed to be irrational on this topic.

I promise, by my being alive to post this, that the ability to draw and fire has saved my life many times.

To those who have led sheltered lives and never needed to defend themselves:
Welcome to the real world!

The Zodiac killer shot people at random in California.
Son of Sam, Dave shot people at random in NY.


Get my point?
Ability to defend yourself means: alive to testify,
not: dead with a chalk line drawn around your body
by bored cops who could care less.

It has worked for me or I would be just a name on a toombstone!

[deadeye]

8. what would you have done if you did have a gun...

shot the guy as he was running away? By the time you have a gun poking in your ribs its too late.

Personally, I think that guns are not much good in a mugging situation if the criminal has a gun.

[shatoga]

10. actual armed robbery tale/ don't slap a rattlesnake!

Muggers instinctively know whom to leave alone.
The potential victim who has a gun is no longer a potential victim.
Muggers 'feel' the need to leave that person alone.
Same reason why a bobcat leaves a rattlesnake alone and chases a rabbit instead.

Attempting to assualt an armed person is like slapping a rattlesnake/IMHO

In my case;

working midnight to dawn at a gas station.

A customer? pulled a gun (a .357 colt Trooper) and ordered me to open the cash register.
I threw him the key (striking him in mid chest) and turned my back...
drew my small automatic, turned and fired.

I'm still here to tell the tale.
He is not.

Get my point?

Being armed and able to defend myself
means he never had the chance to eliminate all witnesses.

Cops responding, months-later signed my application for the Police Academy
& were proud to ride with me afterwards.

They knew I would not freeze up when the chips were down.

[billbuckhead]

14. USA has highest murder rate of "advanced" nations, highest incarceration..

rate, most people on death row and at this point a more repressive government than the Europe Union. Guns multiply violence, make certain acts possible that would be impossible with other weapons, turns small grudges into killing fields, starts an arms race in your own neighborhoods. Soon kids and bus drivers will packing on the way to school. Soon we will have metal detectors to get into malls like Israelis. What's next will our leaders have to shoot a gun in the air like Saddam to appease the gun whorshippers? At this point in the flow of civilization, it's braver and wiser not to have a gun.
It's easily argued that the 2nd amendment isn't working anymore. Chimpy, Ashcroft and the rest of the Reich aren't afraid of it. Hell the powerless middleastern Arab guerillas are mostly using bombs against the "Coalition". Meanwhile back on the home front, we have the highest murder rate and most people in prison. Off the wall snipers of all sorts are turning into a homegrown terrorist threat like some sort of free agents from Hell. Guns don't make people free, regulation gives people liberty. If guns made people free, Afghanistan would be the freest place on the planet.

[jody]

15. mistake