Michigan family promises armed standoff, Militia vows its support

[Wonk]

HORTON BAY - The peaceful, rolling farmland of Charlevoix County's Bay Township belies the potential armed confrontation that may develop there in a matter of days.

A county district court judge has ordered by Thursday the removal of three manufactured homes from four acres on Camp Daggett Road. The family who owns the property is vowing an armed confrontation with anyone who attempts to enforce the judge's order.

"We're going to have a standoff," said Lyle Barkley, 55. "I'm not going to let them come in here and take this stuff," he said. "Over my dead body."

(snip)

After initially receiving zoning permits from Bay Township in the summer of 2002, the permits were revoked by township zoning administrator Randy Frykberg that November.

Frykberg said Thursday the Barkleys had initially applied for additions, not to add additional mobile homes. Township attorney James Murray said no township or city in the state would allow the sandwiching of a manufactured house on an already nonconforming structure under zoning.

more...

[maxomai_vs_rove]

1. Pro-Barkley

Based just on what I've read here, I side with Barkley on this one. If the local government isn't going to give Barkley the chance to get his property up to code, then they're steamrolling him. Hopefully by flexing some muscle, he can get the local government to negotiate instead of just barging in with a court order.

[Wonk]

2. They've had almost a year to do so. nt

[el_gato]

3. It's his home

he has a right to defend it

[CO Liberal]

4. But He Does NOT Have a Right to Break The Law

And it looks like that's what he did.

[el_gato]

8. what if the law is wrong?

[CO Liberal]

9. Then You Petition the Government

You follow the proscribed procedures for filing a protest, or whatever remedy is available to you. But you do NOT take the law into your own hands.

[MrBenchley]

10. Really?

I was almost convinced from the eloquent arguments here that the thing to do was call out the "unorganized militia" and start shooting at the mailman.

Guess I'll stick with the gun control position after all....

[CO Liberal]

11. Me, Too...............

It's a shame that the militia wackos tarnish the image of all pro-gunners. And it's also a shame that there are people who look upon the militia wackos as heroes.......

[Ergotron]

31. Even I can't side with the property owners in this case.

I believe there are options they can exercise that do not including using deadly force against law enforcement officers.

[CO Liberal]

32. Gun Ownership Includes a Responsibility to Others

These folks don't sound like they're acting responsibly, do they??

[DoNotRefill]

16. Depends on how you look at it...

the article states that he got the zoning permit, and then it was revoked. It sounds like he tried to comply, he did in fact comply, and then somebody got pissed at him and is using their position in the government to go after him.

Of course, his best bet is to fight this in court...

[Terran]

20. Er,...

It sounds like he tried to comply, he did in fact comply, and then somebody got pissed at him and is using their position in the government to go after him.

How could you possibly arrive at that conclusion based on what the article says?

[DoNotRefill]

22. because once permits are issued....

they're practically never revoked. In fact, this is the first time I've ever heard of "revoking" a permit. SOP for things like this is to wait until the work is done, and then have the place inspected by the building inspector to assure that it's up to code. Once that's done, any deficiencies are to be corrected before an occupancy permit can be obtained. That's emphatically NOT what happened here.

If this was simply a matter of the additions not being up to code, there would have been no occupancy permit granted. They would NOT have revoked his building permit.

[op6203]

33. I could be wrong...

but I thought he got a permit to do one thing, but did another. The permit was for an addition (add-on to his current home), but instead he put another trailer on the lot next to it. I'm thinking he tried to pull one over on them and it didn't work.
OP

[DoNotRefill]

35. The nature of such permits....

is that until the permit holder goes back to obtain an occupancy permit, the government doesn't go in and check on status, progress, building code violations, or things like that. That's because things like that are practically ALWAYS not up to code when the construction is going on. Sometimes there ARE inspections prior to occupancy permits being sought, for things like the electrical or plumbing which are going to be covered up by drywall or things like that, but it's a specialized inspection, looking only at one system, and not at others. It's also done at the request of the builder, to avoid expensive mistakes that would have to be corrected at their cost by ripping finished stuff out if it's not up to code. With mobile homes, it obviously wouldn't be required, as they're inspected at the fatory.

I've got a building permit out that's over a year old, and there hasn't been a single inspection so far. If they revoked my permit, my house wouldn't be legal to live in.

[DarkPhenyx]

5. This could be fun.

I'll bring the pop-corn.

[slackmaster]

7. Let's see if John Ashcroft has what it takes

Is he as much of a man as Janet Reno?

:D

[MrBenchley]

6. Another law-abiding gun owner....

oops...

"A Denver-based organization calling itself The Mutual Defense Pact - Second American Revolution Militia has vowed to call on 600 or more armed individuals from across the country to defend the Barkleys' property.
      "Within a few days of (Barkley) being attacked, that little township will become the center of the universe, by force of arms," said Rick Stanley, founder of the militia group."

Isn't that special....this asswipe Stanley is one of the idiots behind something called the "Million Gun March." Even the nutcases in the Libertarian Party have hauled ass away from him.

By all means, THESE are the sort of people the Democrats ought to be courting.......NOT.

[janx]

15. I live in Colorado and have never heard of this group.

Apparently they have members all over the country.

This is insane. These guys want to play war games. But they don't have a Second American Revolution, so they have manufactured one.

[MrBenchley]

17. Right wing loonies

These are the sort of people who ought to be kept from having assault rifles and 50 caliber howitzers.

[Lefty48197]

12. From his cold dead hands

That's the only way they're gonna take the Militia Grand Poobah's trailers. From his cold dead hands...
This guy just might become the next NRA/Militia hero right in line behind David Koresh, Tim McVeigh, and Randy Weaver.

[MrBenchley]

13. Hey, don't forget those home-schooled urchins in Idaho

in their feces-filled shack...they attracted a galaxy of RKBA "stars".

http://www.rickross.com/reference/militia/militia47.html

"Actually, the five-day McGuckin stalemate near Sagle and the protests outside the courthouse have featured a who's who of Northwest militia leaders. Aryan Nations founder Richard Butler and Militia of Montana co-founder John Trochmann showed up during the stalemate. Attorney Edgar Steele, who has represented anti-government groups in court, tried vigorously to become the lawyer for the family until JoAnn McGuckin fired him. He contends officials pressured McGuckin into retaining a court-appointed public defender.
Monday's rally at the courthouse featured Jack McLamb of Kamiah, an associate of patriot legend Bo Gritz. Also on hand was Don Harkins, editor of The Idaho Observer, a conspiracy tabloid based in Spirit Lake. "Our computers have been set on fire by this," Harkins said. "For some reason, it's struck an emotional chord with people."
Carl Story, a co-founder of the 11th Hour Remnant Messenger, an anti-Semitic organization in Sandpoint that preaches that white people are the true children of God, hollered support to the protesters."

[Wonk]

14. arissa started a GD thread about this. Link here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=328561

[Lefty48197]

18. Ernest Hemingway used to live in Horton Bay

another example of why some people shouldn't own guns.

[MrBenchley]

19. Poor Papa

He thought the FBI was spying on him...and psychiatrists convinced him he had lost his mind instead....

Flash forward twenty years or so and the Freedom of Information Act...and lo and behold! The FBI WAS spying on him.

[Wonk]

21. I just did some googling to see if there was more info and found his blog.

http://lylebarkley.blogspot.com/

(snip, unedited)

Posted 9/13/2003 08:39:56 PM by Lyle Barkley comments (0)

Anyone who reads this that we the Barkley's want everyone to know that we just want are rights. We don't want any body to get hurt over the situation. We would like people to stand beind us on this situation. It sure hasn't been easy for any of us.

[MrBenchley]

23. "we just want are rights."

so let's shoot the building inspector!

[Wonk]

37. Blog update and another "article" about this ("We the Barkley is waiting")

"We the Barkley is waiting for the judge to sign the papers filed yesterday in court if he even signs them. I would like to thank all the support that everyone has given us we are just hoping everything will work out. It's been very busy around here and im and sorry that i wasn't able to keep in touch soon the stress and emotion has been very over welming thank you kim"

blog



Seige At Horton Bay -- IMPORTANT UPDATE
Posted on: 9/15/2003 4:29:00 PM - Columnist

Motions were filed with the court today to seek an injunction against the ruling by Judge Richard May to stop the pending action against Lyle Barkley. It was reluctantly accepted by a clerk who filed it with the 90th District Court of Richard May, the same Judge who ordered the action against Lyle Barkley! It is highly doubtful that May will overrule his own judgment in the matter, nor is it likely that it will speed through the system to another court that could overturn or stop May's order. This is not good news.

Rumors are floating that the Governor has intervened. This is not true. Although the Governor is apparently aware of the situation, through requisite daily briefings of matters in the state, there is absolutely no indication that either she or the Lt. Governor are taking any action whatsoever to avert a disaster.

(snip)

I do not see a peaceful resolution. Be ready in this 11th hour.

Norm Olson, Senior Advisor Michigan Militia Corps Wolverines

[e-mail]

more...

:eyes:

[MrBenchley]

38. We the Barkley???

"I do not see a peaceful resolution. Be ready in this 11th hour.
Norm Olson, Senior Advisor Michigan Militia Corps Wolverines "

I hope they fight (among themselves) until the last man falls...

[Wonk]

39. More blog updates. "The second American Revolution begins next week."

"You'll love it, I promise."

more...
http://lylebarkley.blogspot.com/

ymmv :shrug:

[MrBenchley]

40. Too too funny...

"The choice is between a world of cameras, implanted chips and the total loss of human freedom - or - a world that is suitable for newborn children who will know the thrill of personal achievement and a fantastic future."
Or children who will know the joys of a Michigan winter in a trailer not up to building code....

Thanks....

[Wonk]

42. Update: They broke their first blog and started a second

Real crew of rocket surgeons here ;-)




http://biglyle.blogspot.com/

"Confrontation Averted, For The Moment"

http://www.petoskeynews.com/articles/2003/10/03/news/local_regional/news01.txt

(snip)

Lasater, in a joint statement with prosecutor Kur after the meeting, said the participants agreed to three things:

"First, we got a commitment from Mr. Olson that he would have control of the militia and that they would take no aggressive action.

"Second, we will all await the decision of the judge (Circuit Judge Richard Pajtas) in the appeal process, and until then there will be no arrest of Mr. Barkley and the township will make no effort to remove the trailers in that period of time.

"And third, we will meet again after the judge's decision and before any enforcement action is taken."

Kur added: "That meeting would have the very same purpose as today, which is to handle this in a civilized manner to ensure that the law is followed and that nobody gets hurt."

[MrBenchley]

43. The pictures say it all

don't they....

I notice they've still got a link to that lunatic Stanley in Colorado.. His site makes no mention of the fac tthat he's in jail,, but does sport a gaudy new slogan, which is, hilariously: "If we are not part of the solution, then most assuredly, we are part of the problem."

Never underestimate the RKBA crowd for inadvertant comedy. Live free or we'll kill you!

[MrBenchley]

41. And just for the fun of it

Let's add this stirring letter the armed loony includes...from somebody to the Commissioner of the IRS...

"Mr. Everson, you are engaged in a gigantic fraud. It is going to end soon. Let it come to a peaceful close. Be a hero. Tear down that fraud.
Save your soul, and the blood of noble Americans.
Or try to take mine. I dare you.
I refuse to fear you, or anyone, or anything from this moment on.
Most sincerely,
Joseph Almond
cc: Mom"


(Why do I suspect this is someone pulling The Barkley's leg?)

[jody]

24. Available information unclear, but many replies are scary because they

imply that the individual is automatically wrong and the government is automatically right. That's the kind of belief that AWOL and Asscroft are exploiting.

There once was a time when friends and neighbors automatically sided with an individual and government was small.

Over the past century, that emphasis has shifted and now to many citizens are content to stand on the sidelines while hired functionaries do as they want behind a shield of government secrecy.

I don't know what's going on in Horton Bay, but government drones have been know to abuse their authority.

[CO Liberal]

25. Looks Clear To Me

From the referenced article:

The dispute involves the placement by the Barkleys of two, 12-by-60-foot mobile homes on the property, and a 24-by-34-foot former school portable. Barkley said two of the units are additions onto two existing mobile homes on the property, one of which Barkley lives in with his wife, Shirley; and another in which his daughter, Kimberly, her boyfriend and three children live. Barkley's son, Ken, and family live in the third - the school portable unit.

After initially receiving zoning permits from Bay Township in the summer of 2002, the permits were revoked by township zoning administrator Randy Frykberg that November.

Frykberg said Thursday the Barkleys had initially applied for additions, not to add additional mobile homes. Township attorney James Murray said no township or city in the state would allow the sandwiching of a manufactured house on an already nonconforming structure under zoning.

"It's a very basic question - it's a health, safety and welfare question," Murray said. "This is simply a case of abiding by zoning, and abiding by the construction code. (Barkley) blatantly disregarded both."

Actually, the implication that many pro-gunners seem to advance is that anyone with a gun is automatically right.........

[MrBenchley]

26. Where is there ANY confusion?

The McLoony family have violated local building ordinances, and hope to get away with it through threats of armed violence. And the "stars" of the RKBA crowd are backing them up.

[RoeBear]

27. I think I'll go on record and say...

...I think we've got us a genuine gun nut here.

[CO Liberal]

28. I Think We're In Agreement On This Issue, RoeBear

Who would have thought?????

[RoeBear]

29. Did you notice that the...

...sun still set in the west tonite? And I'm betting that it will rise in the east in the morning, too.

[CO Liberal]

30. I knew We'd Eventually Find Something We Could Agree On

:-)

[op6203]

34. Count me in, too

I agree - nuts like this make the rest of us look bad.
OP

[CO Liberal]

36. That's Why I've Always Felt......

...that pro-gun and pro-control folks should work together to find solutions that satisfy everyone yet keep guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them. It's not a metter of one side coming up with a new law that the other side can agree with - it's both sides working together to reach a consensus.