There goes the neighborhood.

[Squatch]

So, I'm coming home from work, yesterday, and my route takes me through a slightly impoverished part of Chesapeake, VA, called Deep Creek.

As I approach the turn that leads into my neighborhood, I notice that one of the homes in the poorer part has about 15 people milling about in the front lawn, with cars parked all over the place.

Just before I make the turn, I notice that one person on the lawn pulls a handgun and aims it at a group of people on the porch and starts backpeddling to his car. I couldn't tell if the people on the porch were similarly armed, as I was already (speedily) making the turn into my neighborhood.

What in the f**k, man? Within about 100 yards of this little encounter, there is a playground that is heavily used by children from the neighborhood. Is there anyplace in the US that is safe from this kind of shit anymore?

[slackmaster]

1. Did you report the incident to your local police?

Not that it would do much good, but I think its important that every honest citizen report all crimes in which one or more people are victimized.

[Squatch]

2. Yes, I reported it. What occured after the report, I do not know.

[Wickerman]

3. Were you armed?

If so, you missed an opportunity to jump right in and help out!

[Postmanx]

4. That is terrible advice Wickerman

The poster had no idea what was going on. While unlikely, the participants may have been filming an amateur film.

Congratulations, you just advised a man to shoot a bunch of kids making a movie.

A weapon should be used in defense as a LAST RESORT only. The poster was able to safely leave the scene and call the cops. he won this one.

[Wickerman]

5. I know, I could've added a sarcasm tag

but I wanted to be the first to offer the Ramnbo scenerio.

And actually, no - I didn't advise anyone to shoot anyone. I "advised" him to jump in and help.

I thought that was the whole purpose of having a weapon? I have read countless times down here that calling the cops is futile - they are only good at notifying next of kin and doing paperwork after an incident.

[benEzra]

8. You can only...

I thought that was the whole purpose of having a weapon? I have read countless times down here that calling the cops is futile - they are only good at notifying next of kin and doing paperwork after an incident.

You can only intervene legally if you are imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm, and (unless in your own home) you cannot safely avoid the confrontation. Which means intervention here could put you in legal trouble.

If someone is attacking you or your family with potentially lethal force and you do cannot otherwise avoid the attack, a gun is a really good thing to have. But a CCW is not a badge; save policing for the police.

Some states (NC is one) DO allow you to intervene on behalf of a stranger, but one would have to be very, very cautious in doing so, because you don't know who started the conflict. If person A slaps someone and person B pulls a knife and begins stabbing person A, you do NOT have the legal right to initiate potentially lethal force against person B, even though he is in the process of murdering person A, because person A does not have the legal "mantle of innocence" in this case; if you were to intervene, you'd be chargeable with felony assault at best and 2nd-degree murder at worst.

[alwynsw]

10. Two states I'm aware of, AZ and KY

permit (almost encourage, he said, tongue in cheek) a third party to shoot if party #1 is in imminent danger from party #2. It's sort of a good samaritan thing, I suppose.

I'm aware of those laws because I've lived in both states and took the time to learn what responsible gun owners are and are not allowed to do. I'll wager it varies greatly from state to state.

[benEzra]

13. You can in NC **if** the person in danger is an innocent victim...

but you don't necessarily know that unless you saw how it started. I'm not sure how AZ and KY view it, but I suspect you'd get in trouble if you accidentally intervened on behalf of the person who started the fight (even if they weren't the one who escalated it)...

A Kitty Genovese type situation, I'd certainly intervene (and had that incident happened in my neighborhood here in eastern NC, I strongly suspect the murderer would have been shot full of holes from several directions, since practically everyone around here owns guns). But if I saw a guy in a parking lot trying to knife another guy, I'd personally be watching from cover and calling police.

[MrSandman]

14. Oregon also...

ORS 133.225 Arrest by a private person.

(1) A private person may arrest another person for any crime committed in the presence of the private person if the private person has probable cause to believe the arrested person committed the crime. A private person making such an arrest shall, without unnecessary delay, take the arrested person before a magistrate or deliver the arrested person to a peace officer.

(2) In order to make the arrest a private person may use physical force as is justifiable under ORS 161.255. <1973 c.836 §74>


161.255 Use of physical force by private person making citizen’s arrest.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section, a private person acting on the person’s own account is justified in using physical force upon another person when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes it necessary to make an arrest or to prevent the escape from custody of an arrested person whom the person has arrested under ORS 133.225.

(2) A private person acting under the circumstances prescribed in subsection (1) of this section is justified in using deadly physical force only when the person reasonably believes it necessary for self-defense or to defend a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of deadly physical force. <1971 c.743 §31; 1973 c.836 §339>


Not that I would advise it...The only time I was in Little Creek, I was lost, dodging high water between Cape Henry(I think) and Hampton Roads. I could have egressed the area, but calling 911? How would I tell them where I was.

[iverglas]

9. hey mod

With all the dumb smileyfaces one can put in one's post, there isn't one for tongue in cheek.

;^)

Since the obvious is apparently never so obvious as it seems, we need one.

Get us one.

Or I won't plump for you in this round of appointments.

Oh yeah ... ;^)

[Wickerman]

12. I'm on it!

[Squatch]

6. I could have been in a B-52 bomber, but the last thing I wanted to do

was stick around to find out if that turned into a shooting match. That's what cops get paid to do.

It really makes me question whether or not there is anyplace in this country that is safe. Yet one more thing to add onto the stress-meter.

And, I am always armed...with my deadly good looks. Although, I don't think flashing my lethal brilliant smile would have diffused the situation.

[Wickerman]

7. wise choice, of course

pardon my sarcasm - I am sure the situation was unsettling.

I wonder about safety anywhere, too. I have lived in many places in the big country, involved in some nefarious activities over the years and even after being in the military for almost 6 years I had to come to small town Minnesota before I had to face down a gun barrel - and me in my 40's and no longer imbibing in any manner! :wtf:

There is truly a culture of violence in this country.

Your charm and good nature can not be over-estimated - with your self-described good looks you were surely doubly armed.

[Blue_Tires]

11. lol...good memories of that place

I'm originally from Va. Beach, and my parents still live there...at least your drive home doesn't take you through Portsmouth! lol

[Squatch]

15. Update....

Returning home from work last night, there was a police cruiser parked in the lawn of the house where this incident occured.

There were about 5 people present. It looked as if part of the house, especially the garage door and garage door framing, had been burned and charred. There were no fire trucks, but the remains of what looked like fire retardant were sprayed on and around the garage door.

It looked like, to me, that somebody was bar-b-quing in, or next to, the garage and let the fire get out of hand.

[iverglas]

16. happened here!

I emerged from my office one day -- a second floor apt. next door to my house, facing the back -- to find fire engines all over the place and firefighters climbing around on the roof of the small house diagonally across the street, and stuff burning merrily away.

It seems that Karen and Dave had had a little accident. Well, Dave. Karen had thrown him out at some point -- she'd got a bit sober for a while after her baby was taken away and I offered no tremendous sympathy, but did set her up with a referral to the local women's addiction program, which she pursued conscientiously for a while -- but he'd returned that fine afternoon to have a bbq and a few beers with a friend. He apparently left the hot hibachi just a little too close to the wall of the back porch when they left ... although I just heard that from somebody else, and I didn't feel called upon to pass the rumour on. Dave I didn't mind. The landlord was a pig.

Now what you might have is a blessing in disguise like this was for us. The house in question on my block had to have major rebuilding after that. The scum landlord obviously took this opportunity to have his insurance pay for what he should have done years ago, so that he could unload the slummy house he'd been trying to unload for those years. The problem for the rest of us had been that during that time, he'd been renting it to a steady stream of hookers, pimps and dealers upstairs, and similar types downstairs before Karen and Dave, who were actually very good neighbours, moved in.

So he got it repaired and sold it to a nice Chinese-Canadian couple who live upstairs with their mother/mother-in-law and have some innocuous tenants downstairs, and we swap bedding plants in the summer.

Cross your fingers!

[Squatch]

17. I can only hope...but it's not just that one home.

There are entire tracts of impoverished homes, surrounded by "oases" of new construction.

I live in a city where the elected legislature would rather spend time making a woman's failure to report a miscarriage a crime than pump much needed funding into making this a nice place to live for all.

(Thankfully, that piece of garbage legislation was dropped due to a large national response.)

Anywho, I suspect the tenants of that home are using it to more nefarious ends. But I could be, and hope to be, wrong about that.