Brady: 50 cals Can Pierce Nuclear Reactors

[MyMouth]

http://www.bradycampaign.org/press/release.php?release=623

Washington, D.C. - Robert Bonelli, 24, a troubled young adult with a collection of Columbine memorabilia in his home, opened fire Sunday on shoppers at a mall in New York with an AK-47 clone assault rifle.

Where did he get the gun? Wherever he wanted to. On the same day he walked into the Best Buy store at the Hudson Valley Mall, gun sellers across America were offering weapons so powerful and advanced that they have been the subject of recent global security complaints by the United States government.

The same day Bonelli shot two shoppers in New York, arms merchants at a gun show just outside Washington D.C. offered for sale not only AK-47s and other clones like the Hesse Arms Model 47 Bonelli brandished, but also 50-caliber sniper rifles, capable of penetrating an airliner or a nuclear reactor from half a mile away and costing $25,000. Michael Barnes, the President of the Brady Campaign, attended "The Nation's Gun Show" at the Dulles Expo Center in Chantilly, Virginia and inspected the 50-caliber rifle. Barnes noted that not only were many AK-47s and Ak-47 copycat weapons for sale, but also conversion kits to allow the guns to operate as machine guns.

While these weapons are available readily across America, American foreign policy experts have been pursuing complaints about sales of the same weapons to Venezuela and Iran. Last Friday, the Washington Times reported that the U.S. has lodged a formal protest with Russia for agreeing to sell more than 100,000 AK-47 assault rifles to the government of Venezuela. The action comes just four months after the Bush Administration let the ten-year-old Federal ban on assault weapons, including the AK-47, expire. And today the Associated Press reported that the U.S. is concerned about an Austrian company selling 800 50-caliber rifles to Iran. The weapon is legal in the U.S., except in California.

"It is painful hypocrisy," said Barnes, a former member of Congress with considerable expertise in foreign affairs. "It must be very difficult for our State Department negotiators to try to explain our objections to these global transactions with a straight face."

[MrSandman]

1. Didn't they try to put a Phantom jet through a containment vessel?

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

3. Yes, although it was test involving a concrete wall . . .

. . . which was meant to simulate the wall of a nuclear power reactor's containment vessel. An F-4 Phantom jet was remotely piloted into the wall at high speed.

The wall won.

[ret5hd]

2. well i guess if it can pierce a nuclear reactor...

it damn sure oughta pierce 2 layers of .060" aluminum even if it is flying a half mile away.

i'm just sayin'.

[MyMouth]

4. Yup, it will....

So will darn near any bullet out there, barring .22lr(maybe) and .22 short.

[benEzra]

5. Oh, good grief...

(1) that wasn't a real AK-47, or a clone of a real AK-47. It was a FAKE AK-47 that looks like a real AK, but functions like an ordinary civilian hunting rifle.

(2) Name a centerfire hunting rifle that WON'T penetrate the aluminum skin of an airliner from half a mile away. (Never mind the fact that putting a hole in an airliner's skin wouldn't do anything other than cause a whistling noise--Federal Air Marshals are trained to shoot inside the cabin, don't you know. And do YOU know anyone who can shoot skeet with a 5-foot-long, 33-pound rifle at 250-knot targets a half-mile away...)

(3) Show me ANY rifle that can penetrate a nuclear reactor's containment vessel (after all, we're only talking several feet of ultra-reinforced, densified, ultra-high-compression-strength concrete). Get real.

(4) "conversion kits to allow the guns to operate as machine guns"--obviously they aren't aware of the differences between civilian AK lookalike receivers and those of REAL AK's. Conversion would require a machine shop and extensive machine work on the civilian receiver, not just a parts swap. (That's why the BATFE doesn't classify real AK fire-control parts as Class III "conversion kits," because they're not. If they were, selling them would be a major Federal felony, but Barnes doesn't want you to know that...)

(5) "sales of the same weapons to Venezuela"--those are REAL AK-47's, not civilian lookalikes. Actual military AK-47's, capable of automatic fire and absolutely not importable into the U.S., and possession of which has been restricted by Federal law for SEVENTY YEARS now...

(6) "The action comes just four months after the Bush Administration let the ten-year-old Federal ban on assault weapons, including the AK-47, expire." The AWB didn't ban military AK's; they were already restricted. The AWB didn't ban the manufacture, sale, or possession of civilian AK lookalikes, either; it just outlawed the name "AK-47" and decreed that new civilian AK lookalikes could not have a threaded muzzle or a bayonet lug.

If the AWB was such a no-brainer, why do the prohibitionists feel the need to lie about it so much?

[RoeBear]

6. They didn't really say that ? Did they?

"but also 50-caliber sniper rifles, capable of penetrating an airliner or a nuclear reactor from half a mile away"

Oh my God that is the funniest thing that I've ever read!!!


Here's a NY Times Headline:

Experts Say Nuclear Plants Can Survive Jetliner Crash

http://www.friendsofbruce.ca/Energy%20Tales/Nuke%20Plants%20Survive%20Crash.html

So now we know that nuke plants can survive a direct hit from a 150,000 pound jetliner but not from a several ounce 50 caliber bullet.

I think I'll be laughing at the Brady's all day over this one.

[MyMouth]

7. Hope no one ever fires a .50 at the ground....

The planet could shatter. I hear that's what happened in the distant past to the gunnutians, who lived on the planet that USED to be in between Mars and Jupiter....

[RoeBear]

8. Idiot Gunnutians

What were they thinking? The must not have had a Sarah Brady to show them the true path?

[benEzra]

11. They can shoot down satellites, too...

Violence Policy Center Claims .50 Caliber Rifles Can Shoot Down Satellites

The Violence Policy Center (VPC) released another new report calling for strict regulation on the .50 caliber rifle. The VPC's new report, "Hotter Than a Heat-Seeker, More Devastating Than a Death Ray", claims that .50 caliber rifles can shoot down U2 spy planes, damage military satellites, and may have played a role in the recent unexplained crash of the space shuttle Columbia.

"These are extremist weapons of nigh-inexplicable power," explained the VPC senior analyst Tom Diaz. "We've fabricated - er - found evidence that this extremist super-weapon, which is shockingly under-regulated, may have fallen into extremist terrorist hands and played a role in the tragic Cold War downing of U2 pilot Gary Powers. These extremist rifles can swat aircraft from the sky just like hunting birds, and pose a great risk for our unprotected International Space Station."

"Look, I'm really quite at a loss for how to deal with these ridiculous claims," began exasperated Fifty Caliber Rifle Association spokesman Johann Brett. "You cannot shoot down a large airplane, let alone a satellite, with any caliber rifle. In World War II, fighters equipped with many heavy machine guns and cannons put hundreds of rounds of incendiary ammunition into slow-flying bombers and they often still survived. No one has ever been killed by a criminal with a .50 caliber rifle. They cost thousands of dollars and weigh more than two bowling balls, but in the end they're just rifles, not super-weapons. And anyway you don't hunt birds with a rifle, you need a shotgun."

Diaz dismissed Brett's response as biased gun lobby propaganda. "These gun industry extremists have long hidden the truth about the extremist weapon's power," he insisted. "For example, there are indications that the asteroid belt was produced by a stray .50 caliber round from a gun extremist's rifle impacting on what was previously a perfectly bucolic and peaceful world. And we suspect that the planet Alderaan, Princess Leia's homeworld, disintegrated under the extremist wrath of an extremist's extreme .50 caliber bullet."

For his part, Brett described the VPC's claims as "lunacy". "The asteroid belt was not caused by the .50 caliber rifle," he insisted. "It took a moon-sized Death Star to destroy Alderaan, and anyway that was a movie, not real life."

"I can't understand why the press considers this constant stream of fantastic,concocted reports credible and prints them," Brett fired back. "The VPC is an anti-gun organization with a million-dollar annual budget from the Joyce Foundation, no actual academic researchers, and a tiny staff of propagandists. Why do you print this insanity?"

"Extremist extremist extremist extremist gun lobby extremist," countered Diaz. "Anyway, the New York Times prints anything we write, so it'll get printed." Diaz noted that the VPC has sponsored new bills to ban the .50 caliber rifle in numerous states. "This threat to public safety cannot go unchecked," Diaz asserted. "The .50 caliber rifle must be banned to reduce crime, or fight terrorism, or, you know, whatever."

Legislative battles involving the .50 caliber rifle are expected to continue throughout the next coming years.

from the Simon Jester project - bringing levity to the insanity!

[RoeBear]

14. You gotta be careful with sarcasm

when the bunch you are making fun of is as nutty and over the top as the Brady Bunch; practically anything is believable.

[alwynsw]

23. EPIPHANY!!!!

There's the solution! I propose that all residents of Earth be issued .50 BMG rifles for planetary defense.

I read recently that a meteor, roughly the size of 3 soccer fields (football pitches to some) will soon pass near Earth - actually nearer than the orbit of some communications satellites. Since, according to the VPC, a .50 BMG can shoot down satellites, and the .50 BMG can also penetrate nuclear reactors; if every person on Earth owns a .50 BMG rifle AND shoots at all approaching meteors, Earth will certainly be safe from the threat of planet killing meteors. (I figure that the overkill of 6,000,000,000 or so shots is worth it to save the planet.) If the meteor is too far away to hit with a .50 BMG, it's no threat anyway.

Simple and effective!

on edit: For any that may be concerned about the massive recoil affecting Earth's rotation or orbit, I propose that people be relocated golbally to achieve complete balance around the globe. While only a relatively small portion of the population will actually be shooting at the meteor, everyone else should be required to shoot into the heavens at the same instant to assure nullification of the recoil effects of those actually shooting at the meteor.

[iverglas]

19. hmmmm

So now we know that nuke plants can survive a direct hit from a 150,000 pound jetliner but not from a several ounce 50 caliber bullet.

We do?

Indeed, as the very selective NY Times headline said, "Experts Say Nuclear Plants Can Survive Jetliner Crash".

The thing is, that would be "SOME Experts Say Nuclear Plants Can Survive Jetliner Crash".

The possibly more expert experts in this instance don't necessarily agree.

From a little farther along in that article:

The article says the scenario "was actually tested in 1988 by mounting an unmanned plane on rails and 'flying' it at 215 meters per second (about 480 m.p.h.) into a test wall." The engines penetrated only about two inches and the fuselage even less, according to the article.

... At Sandia, a spokesman, John German, said the point of the test was to move the wall, as a way to measure the impact forces. The test was sponsored by the Muto Institute of Structural Mechanics Inc., of Tokyo, as a preliminary step in building a computer model of such impacts, but the Japanese decided not to sponsor the next step, Mr. German said.

Asked if it showed that a plane could not penetrate a dome, he said, "We've been trying like heck to shoot down this rumor."

Mr. German said: "That test was designed to measure the impact force of a fighter jet. But the wall was not being tested. No structure was being tested."

The nuclear experts contend that the test makes their point nevertheless. The opponents of nuclear power have argued that the plane in the Sandia test, an F-4 Phantom, weighs far less than a jumbo jet.

I have no clue whether any particular thing on earth could penetrate the hull at a nuclear reactor. But if I wanted to form and express an opinion, I'd be kinda careful what I based it on.

[MyMouth]

21. Discussion of Brady accuracy carefully avoided?

....Check.

[iverglas]

22. pot calling kettle black duly noted

check?

S/he who observes a pot calling a kettle black, and reports the observation, may not be characterized as calling the kettle white, of course.

... Or even as having any interest at all in what any pots or kettles might get up to when they're at home.


typo fixed

[MyMouth]

24. I have no idea what you just said.

[MrSandman]

33. There is enough question in that test...

To assume the .50 BMG might breach it.

IIRC, P-47 pilots shooting eight .50 BMG M2's did not shoot at tanks, but shot under tanks so the AP rounds would ricochet into the unarmored underside.

[Billy Ruffian]

62. your entire post could be summed up with this line

I have no clue whether any particular thing on earth could penetrate the hull at a nuclear reactor.

I'm trying to get a test done of the .50 BMG.

I'm proposing that a test be done with the .50 BMG on:
8 inch cinderblock with sand in the cavity
12 inch cinderblock with sand in the cavity

Same types of cinderblock, but with the cavity filled with mortar, soaked with water and let dry. (soaking instead of mixing to keep down the amount of air in the mix)

If those get penetrated, then poured concrete (not cement) slabs, starting at 4 inches thick.

A nuclear reactor containment vessel is over 4 feet of high pressure steel reinforced concrete, with a steel liner.

I would happily stand behind such a structure, with someone firing a .50 BMG at the other side.

[MrSandman]

63. I volunteer to shoot the .50...

With no one downrange.

[Billy Ruffian]

64. Capabilities of the .50 BMG

According to http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/mg/50_ammo.html "> this
a single round of .50 BMG can penetrate 50mm of concrete at 200 meters, and 25mm inch of concrete at 1500 meters. (look near the bottom of the page.)

It would take over 600 rounds to get through 4 feet of concrete. That's at a mere 100 meters distance. At 200 meters, it would take 2400 rounds.

The Brady Campaign is lying when they stated it would penetrate a nuclear reactor.

[MrSandman]

27. And they said....

with a collection of Columbine memorabilia

I thought that all the "memorabilia" was placed in evidence.

Didn't see any mention of a hi-point, illegally modified shotgun, or propane bombs.

[papau]

9. OK - my take away is a question-Why do 50-caliber sniper rifles cost $50K

?????

:-(

Granted that after taking down a deer from 2 miles away, I am in no condition to walk the two miles to butcher it - but the idea of such a long distance kill is interesting.

But $25k is beyond retirees budgets for most retirees!

:-)

[MyMouth]

10. They start at around $2500, IIRC

Single shot, bolt action .50 runs about $2500, up to about $7500 for magazine-fed semiautomatics. Those are the prices I have seen here and there, so I assume $2500-7500 is the "normal" price range for these rifles.

Custom jobs, fancy stocks/engraving, etc, can drive the price of ANY rifle/pistol up to many thousands of dollars, depending on the work done, but that is true of any product.

Anyone know the going retail price for a functioning class 3 full-auto 50BMG? I would think $50k would be UNDERpriced for something like that.

[sir pball]

41. Not $50K...

Awhile back I was browsing a Class III shop's website; they featured a Browning M2 .50 heavy machine gun with a tripod, spare barrel and 2,000 rounds of linked AP for something like $16,500. Talk about being an Army Of One...

[MyMouth]

43. That's ALL??

Dont select-fire m16's go for $9-12k? You'd think a full-auto .50BMG would cost more. Not that I'm complaining. I wish I could afford one!

[sir pball]

58. I think it's the registration costs

The M2 was listed at Impactguns.com, in fact it still is, but the price is gone - it might have been in the low $20's, I honestly don't recall, but I do remember it striking me as being remarkably cheap.

I think most of what makes Class IIIs so expensive is the "registered/transferable" aspect - MP5s retail from HK for like $800-900, but sell through Class III dealers for up to $15,000. Another example, Impactguns is selling a Galil 5.56 assault rifle for $900 - but you need to be LE/Military to purchase it. That's the true barrier to entry into the Class III world; if it were just the licence fees and $200/gun tax stamp, I'd be so in...

[benEzra]

60. Not registration costs, but supply and demand...

since Congress mandated in 1986 that no new Class III autos could be registered to non-LEO civilians, the only full-autos that a non-police-officer can own are pre-'86. Hence H&K can market a brand new MP5 to police for $900 (a price determined solely by their manufacturing/overhead costs and profit margin), but if a non-LEO civilian wants an MP5 you have to compete with other Class III collectors/aficionados for the very limited pool of pre-'86 MP5's out there, hence the bidding war that drives the price to 2000% of the firearm's actual cost.

If Congress decreed that from henceforth only pre-'86 motor vehicles could be sold to non-government-employees, you'd see the price of old cars skyrocket, for the same reason...

[sir pball]

61. Ahh, thanky

That makes quite a bit of sense - thanks!

[Wickerman]

12. I think its all coming clear

The Brady Campaign is an arm of the NRA, reverse propganda. And, of course, the NRA is a wholly owned subsidary of the gun manufacturing lobby. So, all this misinformation that spews forth from the Brady org is actually only delivered to increase negative attention on the attempts of the evil gun-grabbers, which in turn causes the gun-buying crowd to shop in droves for the guns that are the most recent target of the antis. I mean, what a bargain, I can bop down to Jimmy's gun and bow shop and pick me up an AK-47 (or knock off) for less than 3k. A nice savings over the "going" price mentioned in the press release. :think: :tinfoilhat:

[MyMouth]

13. Unless.....

The whole scheme you detailed is a reverse psychology operation, designed to make guns SO available that we would only THINK that the VPC is lying, thus ensuring a giant backlash whereby Gun Nuts everywhere will spontaneously destroy and disable their own firearms in a frenzy of common sense.

Gotta run to H.E.B. I need more tinfoil....

[RoeBear]

15. Others have claimed the same thing

It's not that far fetched to believe that Sarah Brady, a Republican, is only doing this to galvanize the gun owning public.

[iverglas]

20. some day my prince will come

" Sarah Brady, a Republican"

... and bring me substantiation of that allegation ...

Did nobody read the info that jody so helpfully provided ... a little unrepresentative bit of ... in that other thread?

[davepc]

36. Proof is in the pudding, if you will...

http://www.bradycenter.org/about/sarah.php

ARAH KEMP BRADY
CHAIR, BRADY CAMPAIGN TO PREVENT GUN VIOLENCE
CHAIR, BRADY CENTER TO PREVENT GUN VIOLENCE
Sarah Brady

Sarah Brady was born on February 6, 1942, in Missouri and was raised in Alexandria, Virginia. She received her B.A. from the College of William and Mary in 1964. In 1973, she married James Scott Brady and they have a son, James Scott Brady, Jr.

From 1964 to 1968, Mrs. Brady was a public school teacher in Virginia. For the next ten years, she worked actively in various capacities within the Republican Party. She served as Assistant to the Campaign Director at the National Republican Congressional Committee from 1968 to 1970. In 1970, Sarah joined the staff of U.S. Representative Mike McKevitt (R-CO) as an Administrative Aide. She held the same position in Congressman Joseph J. Maraziti's office (R-NJ) from 1972-1974. During the next four years, Mrs. Brady was Director of Administration and Coordinator of Field Services for the Republican National Committee.

Sarah has been active in the gun control movement since the mid-1980s, becoming Chair of Handgun Control, Inc. (HCI) in 1989. Two years later, she became Chair of the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, HCI's sister organization, a 501(c)(3) organization working to reduce gun violence through education, research, and legal advocacy. On November 30, 1993, Sarah watched President Clinton sign into law the "Brady Bill". The bill, named for her husband, Jim, required a five-day waiting period and background check on all handgun purchases through licensed dealers. In 1996, Sarah continued to lead the gun control movement by addressing the National Democratic Convention in Chicago, Illinois.

<snip>

Sarah's past activities include Chairing the Building Committee for the Republican National Committee Annex, serving as a delegate to five Virginia Republican State Conventions, and serving as an Honorary Regent of the National Federation of Republican Women. She also sat on the Board of the Easter Seals Society and the Board of Alumni of the College of William and Mary. Mrs. Brady also serves as the Honorary Chairperson of the National Head Injury Foundation.

<snip>





Unless you want to suggest one speech to the National Democratic Convention somehow erases a lifetime of Republican Party service.

[MyMouth]

37. Makes sense...

As pointed out previously in the Gungeon, Republican presidents seem to sign all the major gun control legislation.

[iverglas]

38. some folks sure do like old news

I find it more useful for wrapping fish in, myself. 1968-1970; good grief. Weren't most people here, like, not born yet then? Would those who were in diapers want people to continue referring to them here as poopypants?

The last actual date I'm seeing in that bumph as a date when she was doing Republican stuff was 1978 (1974 + 4 years).

Did I ask for evidence that Sarah Brady WAS a Republican?

I don't thiiiiink so.

I asked for something to back up claims that she IS a Republican.

Hell, I used to teach Sunday School. But I don't think many Christians would agree that I *AM* a Christian.

And I seem to recall that there was somebody named Teresa Heinz something-or-other who WAS a Republican, too ...

Unless you want to suggest one speech to the National Democratic Convention somehow erases a lifetime of Republican Party service.

Why on earth would I want to do that? That would be just dumb. That would be like claiming that the fact that I never go to church makes me an atheist, when there are so many better reasons for concluding that.

I'd just wonder why, since 1994, she managed to donate to only one Republican political candidate -- one who was given top marks by her institute for his positions on firearms control -- while at the same time donating to three Democrats and a Democratic political committee.

But again, where did I say anything about a lifetime of service to anything? I'm pretty sure I've been asking (for months and months, you know) for proof that Sarah Brady is a Republican.

Maybe she is, maybe she isn't. I don't particularly care, either way. I'd kinda like to know the answer, just out of curiosity. But mostly I'd like to know that the people who are telling me things are telling the truth, so that I have an idea of whether I can trust them, y'know.

[MyMouth]

40. Prove it? I can't.

But the organization that bears her name is harming Democrats.

Over and over, the brady bunch has put out lie after lie after lie. The lies SOUND good to those that want to hear them, but shatter upon the barest inspection.

She may be the best democrat the world has ever seen, but she is a factor in turning voters AWAY from the Democratic party.

[iverglas]

44. alrighty then

Shall we assume that you won't be saying it?

People who say things that they cannot give any reason to believe to be true ... well, I know what I think of them, and I know what I'll be doing when it comes to anything they say. Paying no heed.

I guess that's about what would happen to sheepdogs who persistently cried wolf ...

[MyMouth]

45. I DIDN'T say it.

Shall I assume that you can prove where I DID say it in the first place?

People who accuse those of saying things they did not say.....well, I know what I think of them, and I know what I'll be doing when it comes to anything they say. Paying no heed.

This is what is to be expected when the wolves try to dress as sheep....

[iverglas]

46. oh dear

Person 1 says: "proof is in the pudding" and presents what I, really, can only infer to be what Person 1 is offering as said "proof", even though it isn't.

Person 2 says: "makes sense".

... and I should infer that Person 2 does not support Person 1's assertion ...

I think I need a complete rulebook, so I know how I'm supposed to interpret this stuff.

[MyMouth]

47. "infer" vs "saying it"

You do, I'm sure, realize there is a difference.

I thought you would want that pointed out, what with your obsession with clarity and exactitude.

You should be thanking me, really. :D

[iverglas]

48. okey dokey

When, in future, someone says something, and you say that you agree with it, I shall not infer that you agree with it.

No prob.

Got any more weird and wonderful rules I must follow, just send 'em on.

[MyMouth]

49. You didn't "infer"

You claimed i was "saying it". Say what you mean, mean what you say, is that so hard?

[iverglas]

50. here's your problem

What I said was:

Shall we assume that you won't be saying it?

And you are saying:

You claimed i was "saying it".

Goodness bloody gracious. You wouldn't be claiming that I said something I did not say, would you?

My initial response was not to you, but to davepc.

You stepped in (after saying "makes sense" in response to davepc) and said to me:

"Prove it? I can't.

Nobody had asked you to. And all I said in response, given as how you hadn't said the offending thing in the first place, was:

Shall we assume that you won't be saying it?

and you responded by saying:

I DIDN'T say it.
Shall I assume that you can prove where I DID say it in the first place? People who accuse those of saying things they did not say.....

Surely you're not inferring -- I have no idea from what -- that <I> claimed <you were> "saying it" -- ?? Why the hell would you have asked whether you should assume that I could prove something I HAD NOT CLAIMED?

Care to give up any time soon?

Or maybe just explain why you replied to davepc's assertion of proof of the offending statement by saying makes sense? Perhaps I should have inferred that you strenuously disagreed with davepc's claim to have proved the assertion?

If I may ...

Say what you mean, mean what you say, is that so hard?

[MyMouth]

51. because I can

Or maybe just explain why you replied to davepc's assertion of proof of the offending statement by saying makes sense?

Because, and I'm sorry if this offends you, IT DOES. Brady is harming Democrats by hijacking gun control with silly accusations of bullets piercing multiple feet of steel and concrete, and by the many many lies, distortions, and half-truths. The Democratic party would be well-served by severing ties with the Brady campaign, and refusing to comment on any future press releases.

I sincerely apologize for not asking your permission before contributing to the conversation. I'll try not to use that pesky freedom of speech again without filling out the proper forms and attaining the proper licenses. This is what comes of parsing out every word in a person post rather than simply addressing the issue at hand, something you seem to be quite adept at.

Would you happen to have any comment or opinion, any at all, about the subject at hand? So far on this thread you have talked about planes piercing reactors, Sarah Brady's possible-or-maybe-not Republicanism, sheepdogs, and inference. Do you actually have any opinions at all about the article in this thread, or are you just here to cloud the issue?

[iverglas]

52. oops

You seem to have forgotten to use that freedom of speech thingy to apologize for making a false allegation about me.

Oh well.

[MyMouth]

53. gotcha

You DON'T have any opinions on the actual topic of this thread. I do not accuse you of that, I simply infer it.

[iverglas]

54. a correct inference

I find the topic of the thread sufficiently boring that I am not willing to exert effort to learn enough about it to have any opinions about it.

How clever of you.

Maybe if somebody else had stuck to the topic of the thread, and not made unproved accusations against an individual not present for the purpose of discrediting that individual and all associated with her and everything she and they have ever and will ever do ... you know, not engaged in those ad personam argument thingies ... I wouldn't have said anything at all.

Y'know, I think that you can probably infer that without fear of contradiction.

[enfield collector]

59. that sounds like a republican to me.

[aikoaiko]

17. Now thats funny!!!!!!!!

Its almost plausible given how badly they serve their own cause.

Doesn't anyone here know someone in the Brady Campaign? Can some kind DUer let them know that that they are embarassing themselves and other Democrats? For the love of God, someone help them.

[benEzra]

39. As bad as that makes the Brady organization look...

it's far worse when gun-404 candidates running for national office uncritically base both their rhetoric and their policy proposals on Brady Campaign/VPC talking points...

Senator Charles Schumer firing a couple of rounds from a 9mm carbine at an anti-"assault weapon" photo op, and then declaring "wow, that's powerful," is not hilarious. It's both tragic and very, very scary.

(Energy data for non-gunnies):
.9x19mm..................................................450 ft-lb
.30-06 deer hunting rifle...........................2,900 ft-lb
.375 big-game hunting rifle (.375H&H).........4,230 ft-lb

9mm: 115-grain bullet at 1200 to 1350 ft/sec
.30-06: 180-grain bullet at 2700 ft/sec (or 125-grain at 3140 ft/sec)

Senator Kerry's embracing of the Bradyite's rhetoric on over-10-round handguns and nontraditional-looking rifles really hurt him in pro-gun states.

[benEzra]

18. I bought mine in 2003 for $379...

SAR-1 (civilian "AK-47" lookalike)
Caliber: 7.62x39mm (.30 Russian Short), similar to .30-30 Winchester

Mine's a 2002 model. (Yes, 2002. Neither this gun, nor its magazines, were affected by the AWB, since it has a politically correct non-threaded muzzle and no bayonet lug.)

Now that the ban has expired, you can get them with the historically correct slant muzzle brake and bayonet lug (enlarged forward cleaning rod lug).

[slackmaster]

16. Is there no limit to how big of a lie they are willing to tell?

Amazing. And for the record, I've been to about 100 gun shows and not once have I ever seen a machinegun conversion kit offered for sale, not for an AK or anything else.

[Fescue4u]

25. I havent either.

I live in an state where machine guns are legal, but I've NEVER seen a conversion kit at gun show.

Now I have seen some Class III dealers at gun shows showing their wares, but of course its more for display and peaking interest than anything else since they cant actually sell the machines guns there (well not without the requiste FBI paperwork).

[-..__...]

42. Probably saw something similar to this...

and decided to call it a "conversion kit".

Parts may or may not fit an AR-15 (requires an FFL to purchase and it's illegal to have even 1 M-16 part in an AR-15 without the proper paperwork).

Dropping in a full-auto trigger group does not a machine gun make... one key component is still required.

[alwynsw]

26. Tell another lie!

Barnes noted that not only were many AK-47s and Ak-47 copycat weapons for sale, but also conversion kits to allow the guns to operate as machine guns.

I have no idea how many guns shows I've attended; tow or three hundred at least. I've never seen a machine gun conversion kit for sale []bexcept a few kits made to convert non-select fire full autos to semi-auto. I know I saw a couple of those once. Oh! But that would be making those guns "safer" in the opinion of the Bradyites.

Kinda like those swarming fictitious brownshirts that used to get so much bandwidth here.

[Fescue4u]

28. The Brady Republicans

are becoming a parody of themselves.

[iverglas]

29. be it my prince??

The one who will bring me the proof of his allegations of Republicanism?

I can only live in hope.

[Fescue4u]

30. Hope is all some people have.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/hinckley/BRADY.HTM

[Billy Ruffian]

31. If something the size of an F-4 can't breach a containment vessel

there's no way a .50 BMG could do so before the shooter was discovered and stopped.

[Billy Ruffian]

I just checked information on nuke power plants

I read the safety sheet for the Shearon Harris plant in central NC.

The containment building is 4.5 feet of steel reinforced concrete, with a steel liner. Then, the reactor vessel is very high strength steel. Ditto the piping for the reactor.

To claim that the .50 BMG can penetrate such is completely incorrect.

Why does the Brady Campaign make such a claim?

[benEzra]

35. Same reason they claim that military AK-47's are unrestricted...

"Why does the Brady Campaign make such a claim?"

Same reason they claim that military AK-47's and Uzi's are unrestricted--because fearmongering is the most effective card they have. And since the facts don't often support the level of hysteria they wish to generate in order to advance their legislative agenda, the facts are bent (or fabricated) so they can claim "the sky is falling"...

Pretty similar to the tactics of the alcohol prohibitionists prior to 1918, or the "quarantine people with HIV" movement in the 1980's, if you think about it.

[skippythwndrdog]

55. Because lies is all they have.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[hollowdweller]

34. I thought the Brady focus was handguns? Mission Creep?

[anonymous44]

56. LMAO

lol

[MrSandman]

57. It isn't funny...

When you think how many believe these folks.