Accusations of anti-semitic chic are poisonous intellectual thuggery

[Violet_Crumble]

Attempts to brand the left as anti-Jewish because of its support of Palestinian rights only make it harder to tackle genuine racism

David Clark
Monday March 6, 2006
The Guardian

If the past few weeks have demonstrated anything, it is the frequency with which allegations of anti-semitism surface in modern political debate. Ken Livingstone, the Church of England and the Guardian (over articles comparing Israel and apartheid) are the most recent to find themselves in the firing line. This is the backdrop against which an unofficial parliamentary inquiry on anti-semitism under former Foreign Office minister Denis McShane concludes its hearings in Westminster today.
A sober reflection on the nature of the problem is badly needed to take the sting out of the issue and establish groundrules that everyone can respect. But there is a suspicion that others have a different objective. In announcing the inquiry, John Mann, the MP who chairs the Parliamentary Committee Against Anti-Semitism, said: "Anti-semitism is back in fashion and can be found on the streets of Islington, Aldershot and Bethnal Green." This is no random list: Bethnal Green is included because of its large Muslim population, Aldershot because it is where a Jewish cemetery was desecrated last year, and Islington because it is widely regarded as the spiritual home of Britain's leftwing intelligentsia. It is this last group that has become the target of particular vilification.

Variants of this theme have become common since the breakdown of the Middle East peace process, and especially since 9/11. The left is said to be in the grip of what the rightwing American columnist George Will has called an "anti-semitic chic". Instead of declaring its hatred of Jews openly, this new antisemitism is expressed indirectly through criticism of Israel or even opposition to Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state. A particularly meretricious version suggests that opposition to American foreign policy, or even criticism of neoconservatives, is really a coded form of anti-semitism.

This accusation isn't confined to the rough and tumble of the post-9/11 transatlantic debate, either. The normally measured Chief Rabbi, Jonathan Sacks, has cited "a leftwing anti-American cognitive elite with strong representation in the European media" as one of the main sources of anti-semitism. He doesn't spell it out, but we all know who he means. The argument is not just that there are individuals who harbour anti-semitic views, but that something in the political culture or ideology of the left predisposes it to anti-semitism. This is said to be the real reason why it criticises Israel.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/comment/0,,1724460,0.html


Comments? :popcorn:

[norml]

1. So true! I'd recommend for greatest, however...

Error: You can't recommend threads from this forum

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Violet_Crumble]

3. That sort of comment...

..is exactly what the article was talking about. If you read it, you'll see why it's such a feeble 'argument'

Violet

[pelsar]

4. good article......

now lets take it apart, because it mentions exactly the right points:

instinctive sympathy for the underdog.....that is no reason to be "anti israel"...the israelis were at first the not just the underdogs but were expected to be massacred both in 48 and 67. The fact that they werent, and the fact that the palestenains and "friends" seem to have had a hard time getting over it. is hardly a reason to be "anti israel"...that ignores reality and the ultimate "fuzzy goal' of both the palestenians present govt and some surrounding states. (so if israel loses then the left will turn around and "support israel"-thanks that really makes me feel better....

___________
we are rightly reminded, is a democracy. Is it not legitimate, therefore, to expect it to uphold the democratic values we share in common? Far from being held to a higher standard, as its supporters often protest, Israel seems to operate with a greater impunity, and to do so with western acquiescence. . This is simply not true. All we have to do is look at American in Iraq, England in Ireland/Falklands, France in its colonies, Russia, and other western countries a conflict and we find that israel is using "kids gloves'...yes by all means COMPARE!!!!!

________________________________________________________

A final objection takes issue with the left's supposed "demonisation" of Israel----More clear-cut are analogies with Nazi Germany. These should be deplored on grounds of both historical truth and taste. But are they anti-semitic as opposed to just plain obnoxious? Those who resort to them know they are bogus, but they understand their shock value and hope to shame and anger Israel and its supporters into modifying their behaviour

yes its demonisation and the only thing it does is remind us why israel exists..and makes us even less trustworthy of the world...and that includes calling israel an apartihad state......(since there is no "discrimination based on skin color, or other genetic aspects-its descrimination based on nationality-which is an accepted western value for a country at war.)

___________
There has been enough of this intellectual thuggery on both sides, and it's time someone called a stop to it......no problem....stop with the nazi analogies, stop with the apartheid analogies, acknowledge that what israel is attempting to do, is NOT kill journalists, NOT kill civilian palestenians, acknowledge the difficulties in find the palestenains who are shooting rockets at israel, etc and hiding behind the civilians, shields....blame the them for using human shields, not israel. Acknowledge that human suicide bombers are not just inhumane but creat difficult situation for finding. Stop crying "war crimes" at every turn, when they're not........and then we'll have something to talk about.


I wouldnt know if people who refuse to compare israel to other democracies in conflict, who demonize israel by calling it nazi state or an aparteheid state, refuse to acknowledge the actual state or its various parts (refusing to call the IDF by its proper name) are antisemetic....I do know that its part and parcel of refusing to let the jews of israel live like other western states....in which case it doesnt make a difference since either way were still fighting for our existance.

[Violet_Crumble]

11. So showing sympathy for the Palestinians = being 'anti-Israel'???

What's happened to you, pelsar?

[pelsar]

12. i was generalizing...

and painting with a broad brush......didnt mean to.......

I have no problem with the sympathese for the palestenian people.....In fact I believe my sympathy for them is a far more responsable version than the usual "good victimized palestenains...bad bad israelis"...

but when the constant barrage of "evil israel for stealing land, murdering innocent palestenians....using occupation electricity to keep the palestenains downtrodden while stopping is considered a "war crime"....every attempt to stop the kassams is considered collective punishment, (I could go on..) I would say that holding a reasonable discussion about the conflict is rather useless.

When i originally came here, i thought it could be interesting..i have the experience from the Israeli point of view...and that would include how a soldier makes decisions or doesnt make them and ends up in a very violent situation.....how night vision goggles are not so very clear, how a TV camera looks uncanny like an RPG from a distance, etc....i was to discover that i was simply niave.

To have a decent discussion about the conflict means first and foremost wanting to understand the other side and that means addressing the "other sides complaints and understandings"...start with that and you'll have an interesting exchange of info...or we can "change sides"..I'll be the pro palestenain and you can be the pro israeli.....that would be quite an interesting discussion...anybody game?

[pelsar]

15. and added comment...

i've noticed that those who "tend to be either "pro palestenian or "human rights oriented" rarely have a good word for israel....and in fact I cant ever recall a single word "against the Palestenains society customs or govt...hence my generalizations. Granted though there is a certain polariization of sides here..that is but an excuse....

in fact never has there been a serious discussion about the palestenian society and where its going..and what the dangers are........whereas the "ills of israel...even to the point of taking a "normal incident (the church and the firecrackers) and turn it into an "israeli propaganda" seem to be the norm....

[Violet_Crumble]

28. I think yr experiences make yr input important...

..but I think having a decent discussion about the conflict involves not playing the blame-game as so often happens. And I think some of yr comments in yr third paragraph are over-exaggerations, btw, as yr the only one who uses the term evil in connection with Israel, and I myself made suggestions to stop the Qassams that didn't involve collective punishment, but you claimed were impractical...

Violet...

[pelsar]

31. the "evil israeli"....

whatelse could it be?....everything israel seems to try is somehow construed as some form of "war crime" even to the extent of giving the palestenians electricity. Israel doesnt need the karmi border crossing, the palestenians do, yet to keep it open israel spends a fortune...and when it is closed down because some palestenains want to blow it up...israel is once again blamed. Why arent the palestenians protecting it from their own?....who knows, in any case its israels fault for closing it.

.........i doubt any one here has any idea of the hours/time and money put in that the IDF invests in attempting NOT to kill civilians, be it night vision equipment, video cameras with telescopic lens etc.......

do you know how many journalists there are here?...thousands, and all running around to where the action is...and how many have been hurt?...in all these years of violence? a few...and when some are:...Israel is targeting journalists! (if we did that , there would be thousands dead....

i could go on an on...but my conclusion is that we do so many horrendus things, we must be evil to the core.....i can find no other conclusion.

(as far as kassams go..the trick is practical solutions...and if you really try, you will find they all involve some form of collective punishment....thats what war zone in a civilian area does...and more so when the fighter use the civilians as shields.....

[norml]

5. "why is there so little discussion on DU of the Dafur crisis?"

Probably because our government isn't backing the Sudanese government in how they treat people in Dafur, the way our government backs the Israeli government in how they treat people in their occupied territories.

If the US wanted to lead the UN in doing something in Dafur, they could do it anytime.

They just don't want to.

[pelsar]

6. because thats the "way we are.

the sad fact is that there is little national interest/resources to do something about it....countries act in their own selfish interests..In fact, as in the attempt to interfere in Sudan....its easy for things to go wrong (i.e. Iraq is also an example).

how many US soldiers must die in Dafur before we hear the calls to "pull out?

[norml]

46. Not every action has to be a disaster, witness the former Yugoslavia

and how we suffered zero US combat fatalities in that action.

I doubt that any US soldiers would have to die in any intervention in Dafur.

It would be a UN peace keeping operation.

Or we could just drop some supplies and a few small arms, and in that way assist the people of Dafur in defending themselves.

Of course there's not much money to be made from any action in Dafur.

They haven't Iraq's world's second largest reserve of petroleum.

They aren't a desired location for permanent bases.

There would be no huge contracts to be had in Dafur.

They aren't part of the PNAC plan.

Somehow they're not very interested in drought ridden resourceless dirt poor Sub-Saharan Africa.

As concerns Iraq, yes, by all means pull out.

It's just good money after bad.

Same for Iran and Syria.

There's no need for us to go to war in those places either.

If Israel wants to go to war in those places, have fun.

[Tom Joad]

7. Many who are concerned with Palestinian rights are also concerned

with Darfur. Indeed, you are correct in pointing out that we do not support the Sudan govt in the same way we support the Israeli govt, but it is still an important issue.

I think most people who are working for Palestinian rights have long been involved in human rights issues across the board.

One of the co-founders of the International Solidarity Movement, Adam Shapiro is an example. He went to Darfur and made a film about it.
http://www.darfurdiaries.org

So the question really should be, why do people who are self-proclaimed progressives, ignore or are so ill-informed about Palestine?

[pelsar]

13. bad question....

the palestenain/israeli conflict is a very complex issue involving histories of 2000 years, countries all over the globe with various influences etc...its hardly a black and white issue.....and it takes a tremendous amount of effort and studying to understand whats going on...and even then it will be partial.

its hardly as simple as say the the facist dictatorship of iran...or the massacres chechnia, or perhaps the massacres in Dafur, the Algerian version of land stealing etc...those are relativly simple

[Tom Joad]

18. You'd think someone as knowledgeable as you would use spellcheck

P-a-l-e-s-t-i-n-i-a-n. Palestinian. You insist on misspelling it.

Here it is used in a sentence:

Supposedly because of 2,000 years of complex history, the Palestinian family lost their home to Israeli military Cat bulldozer supplied by the United States.

[pelsar]

20. i also misspell israel...half the time....

and if you dont understand the connection between the 2,000 years of jewish history and culture to the area, then you have very little understanding of the conflict.....

[Tom Joad]

21. Do you spend time explaining that to homeless Palestinian

families. They could also tell you about their ties to the land for millenia.

[pelsar]

24. they know....

many just dont accept it.... (not very sensitive of those....)

[Tom Joad]

30. It may have something to do with the demolished house being

a distraction.

[idontwantaname]

22. what i understand...

is that democracy or not there is still the mentality of live by the sword, die by the sword... or maybe its we vote, you die by the sword.

[pelsar]

25. the middle east...

is militant area.....where machosim has a strong part......the two different cultures however have different views of the same militant mentality: the palesentians are more tribal oriented while israel is more nation state oriented, both have repucussions on their societies.....

[idontwantaname]

26. the board is quite busy today.

would you mind sharing your knowledge with this post?
thanks

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x118097

[Coastie for Truth]

17. Darfur is far away - as is Palestine.

Right here in our Bay Area we have several thousand victims of Katrina. Thursday night I was dispatched to the apartment of a Katrina family -- an electrical fire made them homeless again -- and dumped them into our "welfare" system again.

In my retirement dotage I am becoming a Katrina Social Worker (and I don't even have an MSW degree - that's Mrs. Coastie).

Have you looked into the eyes of Katrina Post Traumatic Stress Disorder? Fourth time this year I have seen the eyes of Katrina Post Traumatic Stress Disorder - in Americans - who have once again been dislocated and had their lives turned upside down.

Our government screwed them-

Our President played the guitar in Crawford Texas while the levees were breached.
Our president sat through a briefing totally oblivious (see Justin Frank's "Bush on the Couch").
Our President's staff kept the National Guard out while he played political gamesmanship with the State of Louisiana.
Our President's staff kept the NGO responders (Red Cross, Salvation Army, Southern Baptist Brotherhood, RACES/MARS/CAP Ham Radio, Physicians without Borders, etc.) out - he didn't want the whole world to watch.
Our President's political staff mismanaged the relocation to protect GOP incumbents. - Heck, our Governor kept the Katrina people out until to keep them from registering to vote against his ballot proposals - until Jerry Brown, Ron Gonzales, and Gavin Newsome and Rev Cecil Williams got things moving.

The Katrina People are my obsession - and I have had several DUers tell me that my obsession with the Katrina is wrong, that I should get my (racial or religious expletive deleted) head out of the sand and help the Palestinians, and that I am not a liberal/progressive/leftie because the plight of the Palestinians is not my obsession.

Well, that attitude is exactly what the OP was all about. And that attitude is what is all about.

And I match my cash contributions to with my contributions to . And I give to both.

[Violet_Crumble]

27. 'In my retirement dotage...'

uh-huh....

[Coastie for Truth]

29. Oh my

Yer gettin to sound like a real Britisher

[Violet_Crumble]

33. What does a real Britisher sound like?

I was just quoting you, Coastie. Anyway, the Poms sound like us and they steal all their slang from us, y'know :)

[Englander]

44. I had to look that word up, it's not one I'd usually use.

'Noun 1. dotage - mental infirmity as a consequence of old age; sometimes shown by foolish infatuations'

[meti57b]

14. Thank you, that clears it up ....

In other words, "we aren't that concerned about millions of people being killed and brutalized, ... as long as "our" government doesn't support it".

I apparently hadn't realized that was the liberal/progressive viewpoint.

[pelsar]

23. it explains...

why so little resources from Russia, France, England, Canada, Italy, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Brazil, US, Mexico, etc are being employed to stop the Dafur Crisis...also there is the minor problem of who is going to put an armed force there to actually "stop the fighting...which means shooting back....and criticism for doing such....


or do you have a better explanation?

[Violet_Crumble]

34. Can you show me the forum at DU where theres a bunch of 'pro-Darfur' folk?

Coz I'll be there with bells on to try to show them how blind support for a govt is wrong.

Are you saying that if someone doesn't post heaps at DU about Darfur then they don't give a toss about it? Okay. So can you show me where all yr posts are about it, coz I'd love to read them :)

Violet....

[meti57b]

36. You're sort of missing the point.

I'm asking why so much posting about what you perceive Israel to be doing wrong and almost no posting about what is wrong in Dafur.

You appear to think that the country most in need of criticism is Israel, ... not Dafur and not even the government of the United States. I find that puzzling.

[Violet_Crumble]

39. I haven't missed the point at all...

I'm asking why so much posting about what you perceive Israel to be doing wrong and almost no posting about what is wrong in Dafur.

I just told you, but I'll try and make it even clearer. I have yet to find any DUers defending the govt of Darfur with unwavering and blind loyalty, so i don't feel any need to argue about Darfurwith people who agree with me on it. Likewise, while I have never mentioned the Stolen Generation(fyi, genocide carried out here till the 70's + 80's), that doesn't mean I don't feel strongly about it. Now,what about that are you going to find puzzling, i wonder?

violet

[norml]

35. It's right that we should be most critical of our own government

and what's being done in our name.

Then we look at things being done by others, that we should do something about.

That's only natural.

Besides, this isn't the Dafur forum.

It's the Israel/Palestine forum.

Though I can well understand why those supporting Israel would want to change the subject.

[pelsar]

38. why change the subject?

are some of us supposed to be "afraid" or embarrassed" to discus israel?...and its doings?......

[Tom Joad]

8. If you have such contempt for progressives, why are on DU?

Anyway, please see post #7 below.

[meti57b]

41. I do not regard this obsessive criticism of Israel as progressive.

I regard it as something else that definitely is not progressive.

[Coastie for Truth]

42. See my append #16

[Behind the Aegis]

9. The real "poisonous intellectual thuggery" is...

...pretending it doesn't exist on the left, as if we are magically immune to racism, bigotry, and hate.

[Violet_Crumble]

10. The writer didn't pretend it doesn't exist...

...they pointed out quite rightly the very real poisonous intellectual thuggery where criticism of Israels policy is twisted into anti-Semitism...

btw, after reading some of the poison posted at DU recently, I'm in no doubt that the American Left isn't immune to racism, bigotry and hate....

Violet...

[Colorado Blue]

19. Absolutely.

People with agendas of all kinds are draping themselves in the progressive flag, when their ideologies seem in fact to be anything but progressive.

And pretending that the Left is immune from racism is simply willful blindness.

[Violet_Crumble]

32. That comment definately applies to some of the 'pro-Israel' ideology...

People with agendas of all kinds are draping themselves in the progressive flag, when their ideologies seem in fact to be anything but progressive.

Violet...

[Coastie for Truth]

37. And, likewise to some of the pro-Palestinian ideology

where people with agendas of all kinds are draping themselves in the progressive flag, when their ideologies seem in fact to be anything but progressive.

[Violet_Crumble]

40. CB has already said that...

...which is why i pointed out that it cuts both ways, so i'm not sure what the point of yr post was

violet

[Coastie for Truth]

43. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. See my post #16.

[Englander]

45. Oh, the irony.

--People with agendas of all kinds are draping themselves in the progressive flag, when their ideologies seem in fact to be anything but progressive.--

[Coastie for Truth]

16. I do not believe that the Left is Anti-Semitic.

But I think much of the anti-Semitism - on both sides of the spectrum - comes from the "outliers" who are more then three sigma from the mean of bell curve of the standard normal distribution of political thought.

I am not going to into the psychology of anti-Semitism. Suffice it to say -- lots of papers at .