Interesting Times: Irshad and Wafa

[barb162]

Mar. 23, 2006 18:52 | Updated Mar. 25, 2006 21:52
Interesting Times: Irshad and Wafa
By SAUL SINGER

When the scourge of militant Islam is finally bottled up, like smallpox, history should save a spot for the tale of a handful of Muslim women who put their lives on the line in the battle.

Since a single interview on Al-Jazeera on February 21, Wafa Sultan, a Syrian-born psychologist now living in the US, has become an overnight sensation. The link to the clip on www.memritv.org has received over a million hits, and Sultan has been interviewed by The New York Times, The Sunday Times and Le Monde. Sultan, in her original five-minute interview, became the Rosa Parks of the global struggle against jihad: the catalyst whose stubborn courage marks a turning point.

"The clash we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions, or a clash of civilizations," Sultan said in that interview. "It is a clash between civilization and backwardness... between barbarity and rationality... between human rights on the one hand and the violation of these rights on the other, between those who treat women like beasts and those who treat them like human beings."
snip

Manji is even more heretical to the Muslim ear than Sultan because she not only defends Jews, but Israel, and not only Israel, but the security fence.

snip
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1139395664265&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Englander]

1. They're not Muslims. n/t

[barb162]

2. both are Muslims and for good measure

here's Manji's article from the NY Times
http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/news/newyorktimes-2006-03-18.html
How I Learned to Love the Wall
snip
Like all Muslims, I look forward to the day when neither the jeep nor the wall is in Abu Dis. So will we tell the self-appointed martyrs of Islam that the people not just Arabs, but Arabs and Jews "are one"? That before the barrier, there was the bomber? And that the barrier can be dismantled, but the bomber's victims are gone forever?
snip

[Englander]

3. Wafa isn't. Irshad is self-proclaimed, really.

From the other thread that mentions Wafa;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=119909&mesg_id=119949

Both = bigots.

[Violet_Crumble]

4. From the article you posted in that thread...

"Other Muslims questioned why groups outside the faith were so avidly promoting a non-Muslim to criticize Islam, a practice that has occurred before and is a sore spot in the Islamic community, particularly since many respected Muslims also advocate change.

"Reform is alive and well within Islam, but it will only happen by those from within Islam and not those who hate Islam," said Hussam Ayloush, who heads the Southern California chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations."


Other Muslims aren't the only ones questioning it, as I've been wondering the same thing myself....


Violet...

[Englander]

9. Yes, it is baffling that Sultan & Manji should be taken seriously.

Since they're not tolerant of, or fully aware of the writings of, a particular
religion, in this case Islam. Attempts to claim that these characters are interested
in change, or reform, strikes me as being less than convincing. The opinions & views
that I've seen are woefully ignorant/intolerant/prejudiced, it is very strange that
anyone expressing such views could claim to be interested in reform.

[pelsar]

5. She's no longer a Muslim,???

thats from the other thread...seems to me other muslims disagree...saying once a muslim, always one and leaving the faith is punishment until death


but thats all imaterial...she was born a muslim, understands the faith and mentality and is brave enough to come forth:

But Sultan insists that her motives are pure. "I am not against Muslim people," she said. "They are my people. I am just trying to change their mentality and their behavior."

shes not a bigot, but a brave women...the bigots are those who close their eyes to civil rights, freedom of speach even when it has a cost in terms of the religion...and choose religion over freedom

[Englander]

8. So, she's 'smart & fearless'? n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

12. She's no longer a Muslim...

seems to me other muslims disagree...saying once a muslim, always one and leaving the faith is punishment until death

And who are these 'other muslims', pelsar? Yr claim makes no sense, as if someone is always a Muslim, then they can't leave the faith to start with. The woman is a Christian. It's not possible to be a Christian and a Muslim at the same time...

she was born a muslim, understands the faith and mentality and is brave enough to come forth

I find it interesting that there's a desire in some circles to brand only those who display Islamophobia and to try to portray moderate Muslims as a rarity or misled souls who support violence as 'understanding the faith'. I find that rather telling and would ask those folk exactly what they do class as Islamophobia or if they think it even exists.

shes not a bigot, but a brave women

She's a bigot, pelsar. She's full of hate for the religion and that 'I am not against Muslim people' is the obligatory disclaimer meant to excuse all bigoted rants coming before and after that comment. And when it comes to bigots, she's not even a brave bigot...

Like you, I'm an atheist. I'm critical of organised religion, but I draw a line when it comes to those who don't criticise all religions and use their atheism or a conversion to another religion in order to veil their bigotry against a particular religion. And where this Sultan and others like her cross the line is that they use their broad brushes to paint the entire religion as one of extremism and where moderates are to be challenged. The most powerful voices of reform in any religion are not those 'struggling' with their faith or those who have quit the religion, but those who are proud of their faith and who want to make reforms happen from within. And they're the sort of people you should be listening to, not these North American shrieking harpies like Noni Darwish and Wafi Sultan, who aren't interested in much more than a bunch of publicity in North America...

Violet...

[Englander]

7. Well, that was a bizarre article.

Manji admits that the wall;

... cuts Arab villages in half, chokes the movement of ordinary Palestinians, cripples local economies and, ultimately, separates human beings.

But then goes on to justify the wall, & other illegal policies, which she also
describes as 'cruelly gratuitous', with some absurd rhetorical questions, & a gross
mis-representation of the situation.

[Phx_Dem]

10. so what n/t

[Englander]

11. That's s*f*w. Sheesh. n/t

[bemildred]

6. More "us against them" horseshit. nt