Enemy soldiers gather - to strive for peace

[pelsar]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20060406/ts_csm/cpeace

http://www.combatantsforpeace.org/

these are the people who will make the peace....not the imports from ISM and others who believe in blaming the israelis for their "illegal, law breaking activities, nor the "israeli anarchists" who have an impossible political agenda...nor the israeli right with their greater israel nor the hamas, fatah and their apologists, nor the ones who close their eyes and pretend that palestentian children are not taking an active part

"I joined the “Fatah” movement at the age of 12, and was involved in various actions, such as throwing stones, writing slogans, preparing Molotov Cocktails. This was in 1986, before the first Intifada"

the ones that will make the peace are those that dont go in to the "blame game" nor pretending that "there is no choice"....that "they have the right"...and all those other excuses....for violence....these are the people to get behind, the ones with no political agenda other than stopping the violence....the ones who have been involved and actually know "how the system works"

and most important it involves those from both sides of "equal" standing.

[barb162]

1. I am glad the group is getting more publicity

[Violet_Crumble]

2. This sort of thing isn't new...

There are groups of Palestinians and Israelis who've been working for peace for a long time, and each effort should be commended without using it as an opportunity to slag off other peace groups also working for peace...

Violet...

[pelsar]

3. this is very very very different... and VERY NEW

it comprised of the combatents..those who fought and know those who are fighting each other...and are willing to face each other in the same room and talk to each other...its is they and only they who actually understand the proceess of being involved, how the environment effects them and how to change...more so, its is they and only they have the credit in their own societies to say "enough"

not the politicians, not the moms, not the foreigners....no one else has their standing to speak to their own society and the other....

[pelsar]

4. more so...

since these guys are the actual combatents with no political agenda its quite reasonable to take that what they say is the actual truth.

in fact when i read about what the israelis say, its easy for me to identify with those thoughts...i assume the same is true with the palestenains.

this tends to cut through the propaganda, dispell the illusions and smoke screens.

for instance: the active use of 12yr olds from the palestenain side..should be clear to all

[idontwantaname]

6. a good number of ISM palestinians are ex-freedom fighters...

who are now pledged to nonviolence.

[pelsar]

7. good to hear...

but ISM is not considered neutral by israelis.....this group is

[idontwantaname]

8. understood.

this the first time youve heard about this gathering?
any chance youll be going?

[pelsar]

9. I'm looking into it...

was thinking of calling up one of the guys tomorrow....

[Tom Joad]

11. What is "neutral"?

If one wants peace for the region, one must oppose military occupation. So in that sense, ISM is not neutral.

ISM has repeatedly come out against any acts by anyone that inflicts violence against civilians, be they Israeli or Palestinian.

[pelsar]

12. ISM....

if one wants peace and opposes violence...then that also includes the palestenian violence. If one is opposed to violence by just select groups that is not a "non-violence".....Opposing occupation is "nice"....protecting either directly or indirectly attempts to kill israelis is "not nice"


ISM is not found protecting israelis......palestenains shoot missles and mortors at israelis...palestenians attempt to blow up israeli busses....etc etc etc....if ISM was neutral they would be found in Sederot, the border of gaza, they would be found up north on the lebanese border using their bodies against hizballa, in Jerusalem, Hadera. (not that hizballa or islamic jihad would notice or ever care....)

They may not have a lot to do, but their presence would say a lot (it would probably get them kicked out of the westbank though by the palestenians....)

[Tom Joad]

13. The Israelis have police to protect them. My taxes pays for that.

who can protect Palestinians? The PA cannot protect Palestinians. They cannot arrest the extremist Israeli settlers who terrorize Palestinians. They certainly cannot touch an Israeli soldier who is holding people at checkpoints for hours, or demolishing homes, or destroying crops.

It has been proposed that the UN be sent to stop the violence. Israel has refused. That is why the ISM came into being, because the world did not care what happened to Palestinians, no one else acted.

ISM does recognize reality. Israel is occupying Palestinian land. All people have a right to defend themselves against occupation, even by armed struggle, even Palestinians. That does not include targeting of civilians, but they do have a right of armed struggle. ISM does not engage in any armed struggle but we do not hypocritically insist that Palestinians give up that right. We do join Palestinians in the alternative.

Lastly, ISM volunteers often do go into Israel. Indeed, more than a few Israelis have been joining in the work of ISM, like the weekly protests at Bil'lin. (Go ahead and join up... i can give you contact info for Anarchists against the Wall) They go into cafes and hop on buses. Despite the hysterical beliefs of some of our detractors, we have no advanced warning of when a bombing of a civilian target is to take place. Also, if we went around Israel openly identifying as ISM, we'd probably be deported.

[pelsar]

14. thats why.....

All people have a right to defend themselves against occupation, even by armed struggle.....that "armed struggle" includes targeting me, and my family. That "defense" means interfering with means designed to protect my family. (attempts to stop a military operation in a war zone-gaza)


thats why ISM is not considered neutral.


send in the UN?..have you asked hamas about that?....i didnt think so....they wouldnt agree either

Anarchists?...thats a most absurd philosophy.....

and yes the israelis live in israel...what about the other ISM members?...ever protect Sederot from the missles? or are israeli civilians not worth it? (or is that part of the legit armed struggle..its either one or the other-choose!)

[Tom Joad]

15. We should not be considered neutral.

"There is a special place in hell reserved for those who, in times of moral crisis, remain neutral."
No, don't take that literally, i don't believe in hell. Just the advice here that neutrality is not to be always considered an ethical attribute.

I do want peace for everyone, I do oppose the occupation. I look forward to the day all the resistance, in any form stops against the occupation... which will be the same day the occupation ends.

If you don't want to join the anarchist, join with Jeff Halper. He is with the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions.

I think not opposing the occupation is just an invitation to a continuation of violence for everyone.

do something.

[idontwantaname]

16. ISM is a palestinian led solidarity group which opposes the occupation...

its not much of a surprise most israelis(as a whole) feel the ISM is onesided... especially when its members are in the westbank actively opposing the IDFs activities.

when someone comes at you with a baton, M16, jeep, bulldozer or tank you of course will have increasingly hostile feelings toward them... and they toward us.

but when you get to the thick of it i dont hesitate to differentiate myself from mainstream democrats or republicans. i wouldnt hesitate to separate from and oppose hitlers ex-nazi regime... so i dont see why i should here...

[Tom Joad]

17. As "one-sided" as the young people who joined the freedom riders

in Mississippi. They too were considered not neutral. And some died as their price to pay for being on the side of freedom.

Rest in Peace, Mickey Schwerner, James Chaney and Andy Goodman.

[pelsar]

18. neutral was a poor word...

ISM is not pro non violence.....one cant say "i will be non violent"...but I"ll support the guy next to me as he trys to stone/kill/wound the guy over there....

one either believes non violence is the way, its a belief or one believes violence has its place.....

pretending to be non-violent while "cheerleading and protecting those who are....doesnt work...it means you are pro violence.

ISM uses non violence..but doesnt believe in it......

[idontwantaname]

19. the palestinians who "run" ISM believe in nonviolence...

some of the internationals do... some dont. but after experiencing life under the IDF you can understand why some do what they do.

[idontwantaname]

20. for example...

at a demonstration against the wall we had a palestinian coordinator, "M". he hung out with the internationals during the protest which remained calm and quite dull until the media left. the next thing i knew tear gas and sound grenades came at us. everyone ran into the village... which had been "invaded by the IDF and BP. "M" along with a handful of internationals got stopped in the village. the officers accused "M" of throwing rocks and beat him quite severely then and there and arrested him.

he was released 24 hours later with no charge...

getting beaten and detained 24 hours is considered a victory for some.

these are things which happen in the Occupied Territories. this is the purpose ISM serves...

[pelsar]

22. the irony....

which remained calm and quite dull until the media left. the next thing i knew tear gas and sound grenades came at us...intifada I was exactly the opposite. When there was no media around all was quiet...the second the media showed up (or was brought in) then the tires came out, the stockpiles of stones....and when they left...so too did the protestors....

[pelsar]

21. being non violent...

in a violent environment is not easy...if so, we would see it everywhere....that is precisly why the belief has to be so strong, and why long term it has is affects on people, and why so few can do it

dont forget i'm coming from the other side, in that i dont know whats it like to be in that position (but no I've never beaten upon anybody), but i definitly understand the stress and the strength it takes to be non violent, believe in it, stay with it while all around there is violence and its personal....

with the ISM so do and some dont...(websites do)...so that mixed message does not work since no one can tell who does believe in non violence and who doesnt.

[Scurrilous]

5. New movement: IDF soldiers and Fatah prisoners

A new brotherhood of fighters: IDF reserve soldiers and Fatah members formerly jailed for terror activity join together to launch a bi-national movement to prove there is a partner for peace; ‘We, the fighters who paid a personal price in the conflict, are proving in action that talking works,’ troops say

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3238373,00.html

<snip>

"An unusual event took place Tuesday in the Anata neighborhood of east Jerusalem: dozens of Israelis who completed IDF service in combat units and dozens of Palestinians security prisoners jailed for attacks against Israeli soldiers met to launch a new joint political movement called “Fighters for Peace.”

“We carry a dual platform: No to the occupation, and no to all other violent activities,” explains Zohar Shapira, one of the founders of the movement, and one of the signees of the General Staff Commando Unit refusers letter. “We have heard for too long that there’s no partner on the other side. We, the fighters who paid a personal price in the conflict, are proving in action that this is a lie. There is someone to talk to – you only have to want to talk.”

The bi-national movement was founded after dozens of meetings between the two sides over the past year. During the meeting, the participants related stories about the violent activities they were involved in against the other side and spoke of their decision to no longer take part in the circle of violence.

Raed al-Hadaar, a Fatah activist from Ramallah who was in an Israeli prison for four years, described his change of heart. “Pretty much the only Israelis I had met before were my jailers, but now I’ve been able to meet Israelis as equals and share a common goal with them for peace and justice,” al-Hadaar said.

The movement's platform calls for the establishment of a Palestinian state with a capital in east Jerusalem and 1967 borders. Additionally, the sides declare their refusal to bear arms against each other. “Violence on both sides won’t bring about a solution,” Usama Abu Karesh says. “Neither will unilateral steps. We are here to prove that there is a partner for cooperation and peace.”

[Coastie for Truth]

10. Haaretz Story- 120 former Israeli, Palestinian combatants in new peace dri

Haaretz Story 120 former Israeli, Palestinian combatants in new peace drive - April 10, 2006

After a year of meeting in secret, 120 former Israel Defense Forces combat soldiers and Palestinian militants unveiled a unique peace group on Monday, hopeful their union will spur dialogue and end bloodshed.

Formation of the "Combatants for Peace" is a rare sign of comradeship at a time when separation increasingly characterizes relations between Israelis and Palestinians.

<<<snip>>>

But in a school yard in the Palestinian town of Anata north of Jerusalem, former enemies exchanged handshakes and hugs as they inaugurated what they called the first joint group of its type.

"This is the breakthrough event, to say to the world we are here," Avichay Sharon, 24, a former IDF soldier told Reuters. "We don't want to look at each other through weapon sights, we want to see each other as human."

Added Palestinian Osama Abu Karsh, 35, jailed for three years by Israel for attacking troops with firebombs: "Both our sides have been fighting, but we want to sit at the same table. We hope we can achieve something."
<<<snip>>>

To supplement and fill in the OP with later news.