IDF kills two armed militants infiltrating from Gaza

[barb162]

Last update - 04:25 13/04/2006
IDF kills two armed militants infiltrating from Gaza Strip

By Amos Harel and Arnon Regular, Haaretz Correspondents and Haaretz Service

The Israel Defense Forces killed two armed Palestinians who were attempting to cross the Gaza border into Israel on Wednesday evening.

snip
Palestinian security sources said the men were militants from the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, part of Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah group. The men were on their way to plant bombs, the security sources said.

snip

Earlier, IDF troops destroyed a large Islamic Jihad explosives lab found near the West Bank city of Jenin.

Along with the lab, infantry troops from the Nahal Brigade found four explosive devices, 30 kilograms of explosives, and materials used to prepare additional explosive devices.

snip

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/705416.html

[Tom Joad]

1. So, while the IDF is not killing little girls, it actually targets armed

resisters to the occupation.
Hadil Ghaben will not be easily forgotten.
16 Palestinians have been killed in the last few weeks.

[barb162]

2. Last time I looked on the State Dept list, AAMB is a terrorist group

("Foreign Terrorist Organization") so I wont be calling them resisters. I will use the State Dept. language. And how do you know where they were going to plant their bomb(s) wasn't going to kill little kids?

[Violet_Crumble]

7. Hey, that means I can use DFAT language!

Having worked there, I mastered the lingo quick. Check this out! 'I've just put my name down for a posting!!!'

Anyway, they're not on the Australian list of Foreign Terrorist Organisations, which illustrates the self-limiting nature of relying on a list as the sole reason for labelling a group a terrorist group. Al-Aqsa has engaged in terrorist activities, and of course they're a terrorist organisation, but the purpose of these lists whether they're American, British, or Australian ones isn't to give Mr. Joe Ordinary out in suburbia a handy reference guide so they know who the terrorists are - they exist for government agencies because those groups are supposeduly active in the countries they are listed in. Not because they carry out attacks in those countries, but because of more mundane things like money laundering being carried out on behalf of the group and that sort of thing....

Violet...

[barb162]

10. Al Aksa certainly is on the Australian terrorist list

The Australia list spells it as Al Aqsa and it was listed on 4/17/02. And it includes the AA Martyrs Brigade and Battalion groups. For having worked there, I would think you should know that. And I disagree with your explanation for the lists.

[Englander]

13. No, it isn't.

That's no, Al Aqsa is most certainly *not* on the Australian terrorist list, here's
the link to the Aus. Govt listing of terrorist orgs, *NO* mention of Al Aqsa;

'Australian Govt

Listing of Terrorist Organisations'

http://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/agd/www/nationalsecurity.nsf/AllDocs/95FB057CA3DECF30CA256FAB001F7FBD?OpenDocument

[barb162]

14. Yes it is, number 311

[idontwantaname]

16. i only see 19. do you have a link barb? n/t.

[barb162]

19. see post 18

[idontwantaname]

22. check #602 - #614 on your list. n/t

[Englander]

17. 311?!?! There's only 19 in the list!

The link I provided goes to the Australian LTO, what's yer source of info?

[idontwantaname]

23. found it! --->AL-AQSA MARTYR’S BRIGADE

confusing # system. such small font. anyway heres what else i found on there:

KAHANE LIVES
KAHANE CHAI
COMMITTEE FOR THE SAFETY OF THE ROADS
DIKUY BOGDIM
DOV
FOREFRONT OF THE IDEA
JUDEA POLICE
KACH
KFAR TAPUAH FUND
KOACH
REPRESSION OF TRAITORS
STATE OF JUDEA
SWORD OF DAVID
THE JUDEAN LEGION
THE JUDEAN VOICE
THE QOMEMIYUT MOVEMENT
THE WAY OF THE TORAH
THE YESHIVA OF THE JEWISH IDEA

[barb162]

24. not to change the subject or anything, but did you notice Hamas

and the HUGE number of Palestinian based organizations and individuals on the list

[barb162]

18. check Australian Government Dept. of Foreign Affairs and Trade

http://www.dfat.gov.au/icat/freezing_terrorist_assets.html

See that topic "What is the Consolidated List?"
You will find AAMB there on the list.

[idontwantaname]

20. ???

maybe im missing something but #311 is ahmed from afghanistan

[Englander]

21. That's something completely different.

That isn't the LTO, that is *NOT* the list of orgs designated as 'terrorist orgs',
that's something completely different. Al-aqsa is *NOT* on the LTO.

[Violet_Crumble]

30. No it isn't...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x122217#122303

Rather than just informing everyone that you disagree with me on why I think it's incredibly stupid for anyone to rely solely on an FTO list to define who is and who isn't a terrorist, would you like to explain *why* you have a problem with what I said?

Violet...

[pelsar]

3. your so right....

the IDF shouldnt have killed them...in fact the IDF should have looked the other way so they could enter one of the nearby villages and wipe out the school kids as they've tried in the past.

to each his own..some prefer israeli children to be shot dead (we have a word that describes that...)

[cali]

6. Armed resisters to the Occupation.

How noble!

Language is a good indicator of how someone thinks of any given issue.

The defend Palestine block no matter what, is no different from the defend Israel block no matter what. I believe the Palestinians are more wronged against than the Israelis, that there's greater cause for their despair and anger, but even so it's not nearly as one sided as some here perceive it to be.

[Tom Joad]

4. If you don't like the resistance, end the occupation.

I don't like the resistance either. Palestinians would rather be doing other things. Like living normal lives.

President Jimmy Carter:
For more than a quarter century, Israeli policy has been in conflict with that of the United States and the international community. Israel’s occupation of Palestine has obstructed a comprehensive peace agreement in the Holy Land, regardless of whether Palestinians had no formalized government, one headed by Yasir Arafat or Mahmoud Abbas, or with Abbas as president and Hamas controlling the parliament and cabinet.

Recently, Israeli leaders have decided on unilateral actions without involving either the United States or the Palestinians, with withdrawal from Gaza as the first step. As presently circumscribed and isolated, without access to the air, sea or the West Bank, Gaza is a nonviable economic and political entity.
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/03/09/colonization_of_palestine_precludes_peace.php

[pelsar]

5. but i'm not for indescriminate killing...

of children or anybody else for that matter..some people are.

(like when they prefer the IDF not shoot people who sneak in to the 67 borders with the intention of killing ISRAELIs...but to each his own....)

[idontwantaname]

11. good pesach

so when the IDFspecial forces occupoes a home (sneaking around in the 67 border) do the palestinians have the right or authority to kill them as they have intentions on killing palestinians.

[pelsar]

27. in principle yes...

they have "the right" to try.........assuming the palestenains are wearing uniforms.....

[Jim Sagle]

8. Jimmy Carter was a very bad president and an even worse Democrat.

His bashing of key Democratic constituencies (Jews and labor unions, to name two) weakened the party quite severely. His deregulation craze paved the way for privatization and effectively blurred the line between the two parties.

[Tom Joad]

9. You accusing Jimmy Carter of bashing Jews?

Where in the world does that come from?

Still, have to say Jim that was the most polite post I have ever seen you write, excluding, of course, the false and defamatory accusation of anti-semitism against President Carter.

I also believe there are very valid concerns with Carter's politics, but don't accuse him of something you are not prepared to back-up.

[Andromeda]

29. I've heard Carter bash Jews many times.

Jimmy Carter was one of our weakest presidents which is probably why he was a one-term president.

[Violet_Crumble]

32. Please provide some examples of Jimmy Carter bashing Jews...

I've never heard of this before and I think when charges such as that are made against a Democrat president at DU, they should automatically be backed up with factual evidence otherwise there's no difference between that and the way I see conservatives carry on about Democrat politicians...

Violet...

[Tom Joad]

34. Just reminds me of a hit and run.

Channeling the Bill o'Really school of false accusations. No evidence needed.

They know "goddamn well" (to use Sagle's scholarly phrase, if i may) Jimmy Carter never bashed Jews, but for some it is enough just to make the accusation and disappear. Cowardly in my book.

[Tom Joad]

33. Andromeda, please provide a quote.

Is he "bashing Jews" or critical of Israel policy.

It is *not* the same thing.

In fact, Dick Nixon was a big supporter of Israel policy... and he indeed hated Jews (though he hated most people, so it wasn't all that special, but he was anti-Semitic)

There is nothing wrong with being critical of Jimmy Carter. But to accuse him of anti-Semitism is baseless. For a poster to make these accusations without specific evidence is, in my book, shall we say, not helpful. It even strikes me as being an intellectual coward.

[Violet_Crumble]

36. Kick...

n/t

[Tom Joad]

37. Looks like the hit and runners have just assumed that we would

accept their unfounded accusations, without the need of providing a shred of evidence. Sad day when people get away so easily with character assassination.

But for those who work for justice for Palestine,or people who dare to be critical of current policy, the risks are much worse than that.

[Douglas Carpenter]

38. I agree that President Carter was not the best Democrat ...but

I also would like to hear of some examples of when he bashed Jews.

This I also never heard of before. :eyes:

[Violet_Crumble]

39. kick for Andromeda...

[Poll_Blind]

40. Kick for Andromeda...I'd love to know why you feel this way!

PB

[barb162]

12. This group is known to use kids as suicide bombers

and it goes after civilians. It'S NOT what I call "resistance"

FF is from Wikipedia:
snip...The al-Aqsa brigades are responsible for dozens of suicide bombings and many more shooting attacks against Israeli vehicles in the West Bank. Some notable suicide bombings committed by the group were:

March 2, 2002: Beit Yisrael, Jerusalem - 11 killed.
January 5, 2003: Southern Tel Aviv central bus station - 22 killed.
January 29, 2004: Rehavia, Jerusalem, bus line 19 - 11 killed.
March 14, 2004: Port of Ashdod - 10 killed. (together with Hamas)
On October 16, 2005, the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility for a shooting attack at the Gush Etzion junction, killing three Israelis and wounding three others.

Some of the al-Aqsa brigades' attacks were committed by minors. On March 24, 2004, a Palestinian teenager named Hussam Abdo was caught in an IDF checkpoint carrying an explosive belt. Following his arrest, an al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade teenagers' militant cell was exposed and arrested in Nablus. <4> However, the Brigades still using children as suicide bombers, as on September 23, 2004 a 15-year-old suicide bomber was arrested by Israeli security forces. <5> See main article: child suicide bomber.
snip
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Aqsa_Martyrs'_Brigades

[idontwantaname]

15. the IDF also goes after civilians

what do you call that???

[barb162]

25. The IDF is using kids strapped with explosives like AAMB?

News to me

[cali]

26. the pointless nitpicking going

on here, is just embarassing.

[Violet_Crumble]

31. Pointless nitpicking...

..is the heart and soul of 'discussion' of the I/P conflict on the internet. Without it I think this forum would almost cease to exist :)

Violet....

[pelsar]

28. i cant tell the differences

its always difficult to tell which palestenain has a bomb, a knife a gun, which is runner, which is a lookout, which is just going shopping...they dont wear uniforms and hide behind civilians.....

[Phx_Dem]

35. That would be a unilateral action

on Israels part, is that what you are suggesting?