On Israel and Palestine

[BayCityProgressive]

Okay first of all I don't want this to be a flame war where people post one sentence answers bashing the other side, but knowing this issue I am sure that is what will happen :) ! I am very hopeful that a peace between the two can be reached but the question that I have is this: Do the terrorists in Palestine intentionally surround themselves with civilians so that when the Israelis retaliate the muslims can say "look the evil Jews killed children" and hence keep the blood bath going. I really do feel for the innocent people in both countries but I have a hard time with the fact that most of the countries and political parties around Israel call for its total destruction! How can Israel negotiate with people like that? I am not by any means saying that Israel is perfect, but I am just wondering if they are being set up for a lot of what happens there? I am pretty ignorant on the issue I will freely admit...so I would like to learn more.

[acmavm]

1. OOOOOOOOHHHHHHH NOOOOOO, you don't want to start a flame

war, do you?

<snip>Do the terrorists in Palestine intentionally surround themselves with civilians so that when the Israelis retaliate the muslims can say "look the evil Jews killed children" and hence keep the blood bath going. <snip>

[BayCityProgressive]

3. wow

That didn't take long. People here post threads asking similar questions about the intentions of Israel all the time but I ask it about Palestine and all of a sudden it's bad?? I hate to say it but many people in the world do think extreme things like what I said and will go to any means to get others to think it as well.I am merely asking if this is a lot fo what is going on there? I have no idea if it is or isn't so I thought maybe someone here did...silly me

[tatertop]

4. totally unfounded hate speech

what are you up to?

[mitchtv]

2. My small constructive thought is

That the Palestinians could accomplish a lot more if they were ready to use Ghandi's methods. At this point I have no sympathy for either side

[BayCityProgressive]

5. That is similar

to where I am at. It seems that many in the arab worl have no intention of even trying a peace process and it also seems that Israel is too quick to use military force and also provokes arabs by the way they treat those who live in Israel.

[King Mongo]

12. In 2001, at the talks at Taba...

Palestinians and Israelis made the most successful talks ever. Unfortunately, Sharon chose to not continue those talks due to the violence practiced on both sides.

Given that some on both sides are willing to work towards a peaceful solution, I think that it makes sense for both sides to encourage this activity so that both sides can find many things that they can agree upon. I think that both sides need to talk about peace so that they can get an understanding of how peace can be possible. The more that both sides see that peace can be possible, the less likely they will be to use violence.

I mean, in order for people not practice war, they need to know that peace is possible. But, as long as both sides can't see peace due to the failure of one side to negotiate, then war, violent or non-violent, remains the only option.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TomClash]

7. Yes, Israel's destruction is happening soon

:sarcasm:

Israel has 100 nuclear weapons; destruction is hardly imminent.

[pelsar]

8. to answer your question.....

sometimes yes, sometimes no......during the initial phases of intifada II, the scenario was kids with rocks up front, ambulances coming to resupply and shooters either in the back alleys or mixed in.

as intifada II continued and the palesenain shooters were not always on the offensive and infact became the hunted, civilians got caught up inadvertantly. The battle ground is in a civilian environment so whether intentional or not, civilians are in the combat zone. (though they were good at clearing out real fast, when things got hot.)

In gaza, kassams and mortors are shot from (not always) built up areas, where civilians live, hence any retailiation would cause major civilians causulties, as does limited attempts as well. Previous to this they would shoot from orange/olive groves, use them for cover, but the IDF would raze them to the ground, so the only cover left became apt buildings, etc.

The assinations from helicopters kept the civilians causulties down to a minimum, (other options would have caused far more deaths) but never the less exploading missles still kill more than the occupants of a car.

so thats your answer. Yes the palestenain fighters dont wear uniforms and live and plan and shoot from civilian areas...to do otherwise is probably sucidal. The IDF on the other hand uses minimal force when going after them inorder to keep the civilian causulties down as long as it doesnt endanger their own troops too much. The jenin experience was an example of that.

[BayCityProgressive]

9. Thank you

Pelsar for the informative post!

[pelsar]

10. dont confuse the palestenians with israeli arabs...

one involves a low level war the other are citizens of israel living a minority status. Though far from being perfect, and though israeli arabs will declare that they identify with the palestenains....they wont go and live there. (in palestine). They understand very well their minority status within israel though frought with problems and biases not only has been changing in time (to include a surpreme court judge....) but has only been getting better since 48. Plus their freedoms are way beyond anything their brethren have under the PA or in any other arab state for that matter.

[King Mongo]

11. Both sides attempt to make the other look bad....

...and thus it is not possible to say that one side is better than the other. We should always remember that one is the occupied and the other is the occupier while both have the need and right to be recongized as independent unoccupied nations. Until both are independent unoccupied nations, both will blame the other.